Except that if it was developed and created by the United States then control should naturally remain with the United States. Theft is not a solution. If US control of its own product is taken away, then the US should be given compensation from every country. I suggest that we start with the US being given the telephone infrastructure of the EU.
Except that if it was developed and created by the United States then control should naturally remain with the United States. Theft is not a solution. If US control of its own product is taken away, then the US should be given compensation from every country. I suggest that we start with the US being given the telephone infrastructure of the EU.
I'm talking about national entities. If you wanted to factor that in, then I hope that European countries would pay their share for slavery. Let's not forget that many European countries practiced slavery in the 20th century, too. People tend to forget that.
I don't advocate European countries giving aid to specific groups of people but the countries. For example, I don't think that Germany should give billions to the Herero because of German's genocide, slavery, and concentration camps against them in the early 1900s. I think that they should provide aid for the country as it would not create ethnic tensions by singling out a single group.
The internet is not 'product' man, it is a (brilliant) concept. It cannot be bought, sold, or traded. It cannot be taken away, stolen, controlled, or destroyed using any means currently known to humankind. An understanding of this really is nescesary for meningful discussion of the topic.
So what exactly are you claiming someone is trying to steal?
IPv4? IPv6? DNS? Infrastructure?
Again, I don't really care where the ruling body resides, but I don't think ICANN is doing a proper job, and one part of that is that they clearly are politically influenced by the US government, which is silly.
Today the internet is an important part of the international infrastructure and it is simply wrong that the controlling body is not under international control.
Every other type of international infrastructure is handled by the UN: Telecommunications (ITU), shipping (IMO), Civil aviation (ICAO) etc so why should the internet be an exception?
Every other type of international infrastructure is handled by the UN: Telecommunications (ITU), shipping (IMO), Civil aviation (ICAO) etc so why should the internet be an exception?
None of this would have come to a head if the US had forced implimentation of IPv6 when China started complaining about lack of IP's and ICANN had simply approved the creation of any top level domain that someone requested.
The problem is that the US has plenty of IP's so we aren't implimenting IPv6 and ICANN refuses to create new top level domains. If we had solved those problems when they appeared the EU and China wouldn't have got their panties in a bunch. Hell the EU liked ICANN until they refused to create the .eu top level domain.
The problem is that the US has plenty of IP's so we aren't implimenting IPv6 and ICANN refuses to create new top level domains. If we had solved those problems when they appeared the EU and China wouldn't have got their panties in a bunch. Hell the EU liked ICANN until they refused to create the .eu top level domain.
So ICANN didn't dish out the EU domain. Therefore, they should all be shot at dawn. And instead of a trial by jury, the next suspect arrested by the coppers should be killed at once.
Give me a break. Do you really think ICANN is some kinda weirdo We Hate the EU group that goes around thinking of ways to kill off the European Union? And that they hate the idea of Chinese being OL?
I'm 100% sure they have reasons for these actions. And we should find out those reasons before we condemn them for their actions.
Now it may be that some of them are trivial, like not enough staff to roll out a new top level domain like eu or xxx. Or maybe the problems are deeper. Curious that so many are ready to roll over those problems with absolutely no idea as to what they may be. Many seem to have ulterior motives, and they will not let mere facts sway them.
And finally, do you think freedom will be improved or restricted with the likes of Syria and Iran ruling on the net? Sure, they can block IPs from being accessed from within their borders, but how much better is it to shut some server down that they do not like? Fact is, much of the world is ruled by dicators who wish to suppress freedom and liberty. Turning the rule of the net over to them does not help freedom, it only suppresses it.
Give me a break. Do you really think ICANN is some kinda weirdo We Hate the EU group that goes around thinking of ways to kill off the European Union? And that they hate the idea of Chinese being OL?
I'm 100% sure they have reasons for these actions. And we should find out those reasons before we condemn them for their actions.
Now it may be that some of them are trivial, like not enough staff to roll out a new top level domain like eu or xxx. Or maybe the problems are deeper. Curious that so many are ready to roll over those problems with absolutely no idea as to what they may be. Many seem to have ulterior motives, and they will not let mere facts sway them.
And finally, do you think freedom will be improved or restricted with the likes of Syria and Iran ruling on the net? Sure, they can block IPs from being accessed from within their borders, but how much better is it to shut some server down that they do not like? Fact is, much of the world is ruled by dicators who wish to suppress freedom and liberty. Turning the rule of the net over to them does not help freedom, it only suppresses it.
Completely different. A similar situation would be that all US interstates should belong to the international community because it is popular, vital, etc. for transportation for North America. Or that Anandtech should be stolen.
Just because something is important doesn't mean that you should force someone to relinquish control.
Intel and AMD are vital to desktop computers. What's next, the international community should seize control of them?
It is a system that was created, developed, and maintained by the United States and other countries decided to hop on to that system. There is no reason why this system should be stolen from its originators.
Some of the control of the system that the US created and owns.
Again, go make your own internet system instead of trying to steal one. Or at least offer something to trade.
This type of behavior is so typical of so many Europeans.
Man are you people this technologically incompetent? ICANN only administors the names and numbers. If any other network chooses to ignore those names and numbers they can. There is nothing wrong with it. Chances are the europeans will be successful if they can mandate the use of the new names and numbers throughout the world. As a result the US will lose any influence we had. It was a mistake to allow ICANN to operate like they have.
Thug Esquire
Senior member
Yes, because the French are involved. I do not want france making any important decisions on the internet, period!
Hmm, I think I'll conclude this thread(for my part) by agreeing with this.
It's what I get for trying to discuss technology in P&N I guess...
Hey Rabid, what do you think all the companies that use the internet for their business(any international company these days) would think about your idea of mini-nets for every continent out there?
Damnit, why did I do that? ^
No, it is not different. ICANN does NOT OWN the internet.
Using the interstate analogy ICANN would be the organization that sets up recommendations for how to number the highways as well as decides upon the basic traffic rules(but not which type of traffic that should be allowed).
One example would be ITU-T, which is the UN organization that has decided (well, recommended but all countries follows the recommendations of the ITU_T) that e.g. your phone number starts with the digit 1 (if you live in the US).
Anther example is ICAO. Every international airport as well as the airlines have to follow the rules set up by ICAO. Would you say that this means that ICAO "controls" JFK and American Airlines?
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
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so far the us control has been very responsible. leave the current system the way it is. i'd rather not let screwed up nations like china have a voice in controlling the internet. giving the net to the an organization like the un where there are no high quality standards for membership is a huge mistake. think of the joke the human rights council or whatever they have is. where they have the worst of the worst taking turns at its leadership.
No it isn't, have you been completely ignoring half the posts in this thread? It is the concept of, and protocols for, a collection of interconnected systems that was conceived in the united states, but created, developed and maintained all over the world.
Have you noticed anyone insult US citizens in this thread? Why do you feel it is nescesary to slam hundreds of thousands of people?
I love this analogy, let me extend it:
Imagine that for some obscure beurocratic reason European countries controlled the naming and numbering of all the highways in all post-colonial countries in which they built roads a couple hundred years ago. The governing body for this system decides to give most of the few remaining numbers to European countries, thereby restricting the building of new roads in places like the US, would you be OK with this?
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
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Right now ICANN puts technology before politics in most cases. If it's turned over to the UN that won't be the case, imo. Politicas will be paramount to any decision, if they can manage to make an actual decision. Not to mention that if you think ICANN is inefficient in getting things done, just wait till it's the UN's baby.
The fact is that ICANN is already basically an international type of organization. There are members from around the world and anyone's input is invited. Maybe you believe the UN to be some bastion of fairness and righteousness? In my eyes it's nothing but a big, bureaucratic clusterfvck.
Right now Iran wants a piece of control of the internet. When Iran feels like giving up control of their oil and handing the decision-making over to the UN - since oil is an international commodity that's economically important to all countries - then we can talk. Until then they can take a hike.
And you're calling others in here technologically incompetent? Maybe you can include yourself as ignorant?
ICANN began rolling out IPV6 to the root DNS zone back in 2004.
Besides that, ever heard of .CN? It's the ccTLD for China. Practically every country has a ccTLD that wants one. There are somewhere around 240 ccTLDs.
Sure others can ignore it. But they won't be part of the Internet as it exists now so they won't have much of a market. Nor does it matter since the IPV6 implementation is already underway.
Most of the complaints in here sound like nothing more than sour grapes. Some people just can't seem to stand that the US is in control of something that originated right here in the US in the first place. Stop the whining and thank your lucky stars. If this gets handed over to the UN we can kiss the Internet as we know it right now goodbye. It'll end up being an overly regulated and poorly run piece of garbage. Technological advance will be stymied and bogged down in whining from every third-rate dictator in this world. Mark my words and be careful what you wish for.
If they do it, the internet as it exists now will not exist. In fact if they do it America won't be able to access any information outside our borders. Do we care? I don't know but I suspect the europeans will be very successful. The internet is a collection of networks and if the networks don't want to be a collection anymore, so be it. We don't have any say over what networks outside the US or even inside the US do. It's called free enterprise and if Europe and China don't want to play in our court anymore they will build their own and then we can choose if we want to play in their court.
You can posture all you want but the simple fact is this wouldn't have come about if ICANN hadn't been mismanged. ICANN has had issues since their implimentation and no one tried to fix it so Europe is going to do it on their own without our help and as a result we will lose influence. I don't like the idea of this happening because we may end up with a situation where free speech on the internet doesn't exist because we refused to be involved.
Yes I'm calling you technologically challenged. IPv6 is more than having DNS support, ICANN could force implimentations of the TCP/IP stacks! Not to mention IPv6 has existed since what 1998? So it took them 6 fvcking years to get the root DNS servers to support it (with a budget of millions of dollars a year just to run 12 servers). ICANN is a bunch of retarded morons, and not just that but they are a bunch of lawyers with political ties. It's a joke. It should have been fixed YEARS ago. It could have been fixed years ago!
And as far as TLD's go, there should be a million. There should be a .coke TLD, there should be a .eu, there should be a .europe there should be any TLD anyone wants. There is no limit to this stuff nor should there be!
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
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Excuse me. Where did I claim that IPV6 was solely about DNS support? Stop inventing strawmen to argue about.
For what purpose? China can't simply say, "Hey, we want IPV6 tomorrow." They have their own infrastructure concerns to be able to move to IPV6.
LOL. And you call others technically challenged. It sounds like you don't even have a clue what's involved, nor do you have any idea of the management, organizational, and support structure required on a worldwide scale. btw, IPV6 has been around for much longer than 1998. But it's not something to where one can just snap their fingers and its done. It really didn't come out in any sort of semi-release to corporate/commercial concerns until 2000/2001.
And if you think ICANN's budget is outrageous (@15 million for this year), just wait until the UN gets its grubby hands on it and then every country and THEIR lawyers can get involved.
LOL. So says the guy that doesn't have to administer those TLDs.
You didn't claim it was only about the DNS but you mentioned it specifically as a key point, or do you not read what you write?
Oh maybe so there are enough IP's to go around and the supply isn't constrained outside the US maybe?
The BSD IPv6 stack was out in the late 90's, M$ beta'd a stack back in 2000/2001. You know very little about IPv6 as you apparently don't know the stack is backwards compatible with IPv4. And the IPv4 segments of the network that have not been updated can live seemlessly inside the IPv6 network. There would have been a small capital outlay in upgrading the backbones to support IPv6 but it's not the procedural nightmare you make it out to be or the DOD wouldn't have made the switch in ~6 months.
I'm sure it will be substainly more. I hate the idea of the ITU being in charge of names and numbers. But that's what happens when you let someone like ICANN run the system.
So says the guy that doesn't have to administer those TLDs. Carefull, you might fall off that high horse.
Comparing oil to the internet is beyond moronic.
Anyway, do you even read my posts at all?
I've said two or three times that I don't think the UN would do a good job.
Maybe I'll repeat that once more just in case, No I don't think the UN would do a good job!!!!!!1111one
I'm not saying the UN should take over anything, I'm saying ICANN isn't doing a good job and needs to be fixed or replaced.
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