Is the UFC getting more boring by the year or is it just me?

[Lounatik]

I saw on ESPN yesterday that the card before this one set a record for decisions:10. Which was followed up by the other night's tying of the record. So, now you've gotten 20 decisions in 20 fights. I don't care how much you like technical fights, 20 decisions in a row sucks balls.


Peace


Lounatik

 

[SP33Demon]

I saw on ESPN yesterday that the card before this one set a record for decisions:10. Which was followed up by the other night's tying of the record. So, now you've gotten 20 decisions in 20 fights. I don't care how much you like technical fights, 20 decisions in a row sucks balls.


Peace


Lounatik

Totally agree. Double the rounds or make them unlimited. May the best cardio win. Don't have cardio? Then you better KO them early. They need to apply this to boxing as well. Too many stupid ass decisions. We don't want to see that crap, we want all out win or go home - it's the american way to be extreme.

 

[norseamd]

First they should start using Mui Thai cups and allow strikes to the groin. Doesnt hurt when your wearing that steel cup and they wont stop 1 out of 4 fights for nut shots.

they do wear groin protectors. and the strikes still do hurt. so no that will never happen.

Second they should make ALL main and co main events five round fights. Too many good fights end way to early. More five rounders means guys are gonna be in better shape and the winner would be ready for a title shot.

never any complaint. how about getting rid of rounds all together and having a 15 to 30 minute fight with no breaks

Third I would set Dana white on fire and make guys fight bare handed. More broken hands until guys realize you cant just throw wild punches and hit people on the top of the head and brake their hands. The gloveless fights will need more finesse and technique. Guys will take less pounding so their braines wont be dramaged and we would start seeing different types of strikes and techniques and variations in styles.

all good. most of all dana.

Bare-handed would mean no face punching or no fighting in the US (which tends to follow Nevada State Athletic Association rules).

We would still see hits to the face they would be more technical. Those rules in Nevada exist because of boxing. They need to decouple the older boxing rules. The gloves actually get guys hurt more.

the athletic commssions will never allow it. because it looks bad. there are no knees kicks or stomps to a grounded opponent either. even though they should be.

It has lost it's "edge" and unless they have some off the wall rule changes I think it is pretty capped out with it's popularity. And I agree with SP33Demon, the first few were crazy but that obviously was not going to last. I remember watching PRIDE fights years ago, those fights were insane.

japan only does medical tests. no drug tests. also steroids are completely legal in japan. and because there are no medical tests they can get hopped up on drugs even if they are illegal in japan. something like this comes to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_Belge

 

[waggy]

Totally agree. Double the rounds or make them unlimited. May the best cardio win. Don't have cardio? Then you better KO them early. They need to apply this to boxing as well. Too many stupid ass decisions. We don't want to see that crap, we want all out win or go home - it's the american way to be extreme.

not sure on that one. i have seen far to many heavyweights who can bearly stand let alone get a knock out or sub someone.

 

[norseamd]

I prefer a cerebral fight to a Garcia v Korean Zombie style slugfest myself. Not that I do not enjoy a good stand in the pocket and exchange over and over, and may the best chin and/or cardio win throwdown. But fights like Machida v. Moose and Shields v. Maia are the ones where the skill level on display is so high it makes you shake your head in wonder sometimes. I know people play the "If you trained" or "You are a just bleed/casual fan" cards when this observation is made. But it is your prerogative to decide how your time and money are spent. If enough fans feel like you, they will address it as best they can. Hell, they are already trying to. Orgs have shit canned some fighters for being boring to fans. Fitch and Askren are perfect examples of high level fighters that ended up in smaller promotions because the only thing they draw is boos and yawns from most fans. I also agree there have to be some rule changes. But whatever the rules, smart fighters will exploit them to their advantage. And no we can't go back to the old days. The sport was about to go belly up when it was unregulated. Bringing it to the mainstream means rules and regulations, lots of them. A good example of exploiting the rules - This last card showed back mount can be the new lay and pray. Maintain dominate position and ride it out for a win on the score cards. If you can get the rnc great. If not, no way you are getting stood up while in such a dominant position.

most of the heavy rules are because of america and image. none of the other countries had them until the american commissions and the ufc started to use them and try to spread them around the world. the nsac goes by image mostly when deciding most rules. knees and kicks and stomps look bad to many people so that is why they make them illegal. weight cutting is a more dangerous issue but they do not address it. if people start to use the back mount for lay and pray then they will start to act on it.

 

[norseamd]

Yeah, the fighters top to bottom are probably better trained then they have ever been, so its more technical. You cant really get away with mistakes against good fighters.

from top to bottem the fighters are better. the top fighters from the last decade could compete though. fighters like fedor and noguera in their prime were probably better than any fighters today. brock and cain go just below them in my opinion. cain may have the same or even better standup and ground and pound then fedor. but fedor still had better wrestling and submissions. cain was a all star ncaa wrestler but fedor was a world sambo and judo champion. honestly the ufc is dominated by wrestlers right now. the boxing is better than pride but knees are the same and kicks and elbows are worse then before. and submissions and the guard game are way worse.

 

[norseamd]

not sure on that one. i have seen far to many heavyweights who can bearly stand let alone get a knock out or sub someone.

heavyweights are lot better than people will ever like to admit. and they can have good endurance. pride never had any problems. throw any light weight in there and see what happens. even jon jones would go from champion to top 5. think people might be jealous that they are not that big or something. what is with all the hate people throw at them

 

[Apex]

We would still see hits to the face they would be more technical. Those rules in Nevada exist because of boxing. They need to decouple the older boxing rules. The gloves actually get guys hurt more.

I agree that it would be awesome if the NSAC rules changed. I simply don't see it happening. I'd personally love to see bare-handed striking with no limitation on head contact.

I absolutely do not agree that gloves get guys hurt more though. There's a reason everyone spars in bigger, heavier gloves, and it's not to hurt people more. Yes it's popular to say these days that gloved hands do more damage, and yes, a constant pounding to the head will cause more brain damage than a flash knockout, but there's more long-term damage correlation to the standing 8 count than anything else.

 

[norseamd]

I agree that it would be awesome if the NSAC rules changed. I simply don't see it happening. I'd personally love to see bare-handed striking with no limitation on head contact. I absolutely do not agree that gloves get guys hurt more though. There's a reason everyone spars in bigger, heavier gloves, and it's not to hurt people more. Yes it's popular to say these days that gloved hands do more damage, and yes, a constant pounding to the head will cause more brain damage than a flash knockout, but there's more long-term damage correlation to the standing 8 count than anything else.

agree with the standing 8 count. and fighting and getting hit after cutting 30 lbs or more can not be good for you.

bare hands might be different than 4 oz. vs 20 oz. gloves although. the bones in the hands are fairly small and they can break easily. so bare hands would go more towards cuts than knockouts. chin knockouts would probably be still in. does anyone know the brain damage from chin knockouts. chin knockouts work off the jaw nerve instead of brain impacts so there might be entirely different medical concerns. there are cetainly some articles on the web about this

 

[Newell Steamer]

,... and then they introduced swords, flails, nets, tridents and sheilds,...

 

[Apex]

agree with the standing 8 count. and fighting and getting hit after cutting 30 lbs or more can not be good for you.

bare hands might be different than 4 oz. vs 20 oz. gloves although. the bones in the hands are fairly small and they can break easily. so bare hands would go more towards cuts than knockouts. chin knockouts would probably be still in. does anyone know the brain damage from chin knockouts. chin knockouts work off the jaw nerve instead of brain impacts so there might be entirely different medical concerns. there are cetainly some articles on the web about this

The bones in the hands can be conditioned like everything else. Knockdown fighting (Kyokushin family) is all bare knuckle, and those guys hit HARD. It's really the 4th and 5th metacarpals that you need to worry about (see: boxer's fracture), as the 2nd and 3rd are very strong.

If fights were bare knuckle, the training would be a bit different, but the knockouts would be brutal. You'd probably also see a lot more broken floating ribs and liver shots from shovel uppers, as well as broken collar bones.

 

[norseamd]

,... and then they introduced swords, flails, nets, tridents and sheilds,...

no they got rid of the roman introduction. can you not tell they are family friendly now?

 

[norseamd]

The bones in the hands can be conditioned like everything else. Knockdown fighting (Kyokushin family) is all bare knuckle, and those guys hit HARD. It's really the 4th and 5th metacarpals that you need to worry about (see: boxer's fracture), as the 2nd and 3rd are very strong.

one thing i have noticed is that when trowing wing chun style (3rd 4th and 5th) vs boxer style (2nd and 3rd) is that the wing chun style the srist lines up sraight vs the boxer style which the wrist is angles outwards. i have not had any boxer training so i am not sure on how to trow your hands exactly. hooks and uppercuts seem like they should not have problems though because you can hold your wrist straight no still hit with the first 2 knuckles. but straight punches seem harder to pull off. can you jab with the wing chun style and not have problems because of the lighter power of the punch? bruce swore by wing chun style but he also admired boxing and fencing and boxing does have a different hand style. so i have always wondered the right way to punch

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The bones in the hands can be conditioned like everything else. Knockdown fighting (Kyokushin family) is all bare knuckle, and those guys hit HARD. It's really the 4th and 5th metacarpals that you need to worry about (see: boxer's fracture), as the 2nd and 3rd are very strong.

If fights were bare knuckle, the training would be a bit different, but the knockouts would be brutal. You'd probably also see a lot more broken floating ribs and liver shots from shovel uppers, as well as broken collar bones.

Knockdown Karate does not allow jodan/head strikes with the hands.

And while you are pointing out the upside to no gloves, there is downside too. When you cannot throw to the head, it makes it easier to guard the body. So I always ended up with my wrists swollen and bruised from catching elbows when throwing to the body. Much worse than with gloves and wraps on.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

bruce swore by wing chun style but he also admired boxing and fencing and boxing does have a different hand style. so i have always wondered the right way to punch

Lee abandoned WC. He never finished the training either. He did retain some of the principles for his own approach of course.

In answer to your question of the right way to punch: I presume you mean bareknuckled. The karate systems I train, teach proper bone alignment. Good article on the concept http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=346

 

[norseamd]

Lee abandon WC. He never finished the training either. He did retain some of the principles for his own approach of course.

i meant the wing chun style of holding your hands. but lee actually did not abondon wing chun but incorporated it into jeet kun do with boxing and fencing. had he of lived longer we would likely have seen more grappling. his movies incorporate some judo and also some glaring defects of grappling that bjj supporters do not point out. that biting can easily ruin a armbar or other grappling or submissions.

 

[norseamd]

And while you are pointing out the upside to no gloves, there is downside too. When you cannot throw to the head, it makes it easier to guard the body. So I always ended up with my wrists swollen and bruised from catching elbows when throwing to the body. Much worse than with gloves and wraps on.

i have known about conditioned hands and how much of a difference there can be between weak and strong hands but can you still throw heavy knockout blows directly to the skull without breaking your hand?

 

[Ns1]

ya'll realize UFC was barehanded originally right?

 

[smackababy]

Lee abandon WC. He never finished the training either. He did retain some of the principles for his own approach of course.

Wasn't his style mostly just an incorporation of the best of all other styles? He understood western boxing had the most efficient punches, so he used that and whatever else had better kicks, so he added that.


I think the problem with the UFC is there are just far too many talented fighters than in prior years. The first few were okay, the tournament style didn't really work though. And the no time limit ended up in draws, because neither fighter could continue indefinitely.

Now, everybody has the ability to win a fight, regardless of "status". So, everyone is more defensive. The longer your career, the more money you make. Nobody wants to risk everything to give an entertaining fight, when it could cost them their career.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

i have known about conditioned hands and how much of a difference there can be between weak and strong hands but can you still throw heavy knockout blows directly to the skull without breaking your hand?

Yes and no. Conditioning improves the ability to strike hard without injuring your hands. But fights are dynamic things and breaking your hand is always a real possibility. Machida trains makiwara the same as our dojo, and he still broke his hand fighting Shogun despite wraps and gloves.

 

[Apex]

Knockdown Karate does not allow jodan/head strikes with the hands.

And while you are pointing out the upside to no gloves, there is downside too. When you cannot throw to the head, it makes it easier to guard the body. So I always ended up with my wrists swollen and bruised from catching elbows when throwing to the body. Much worse than with gloves and wraps on.

Yeah, the no jodan was covered earlier in this thread. Definitely agree with the ease of guarding the body as well as screwing up my hands from catching elbows though. LOL.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Wasn't his style mostly just an incorporation of the best of all other styles? He understood western boxing had the most efficient punches, so he used that and whatever else had better kicks, so he added that.

You got it brudda. He picked up stuff from Judo Gene, Wally Jay, and a host of others. He loved to watch Ali fight too.

 

[norseamd]

how come i never see anybody use the thai defense against punches anymore. rampage used it against chuck liddell on their first fight. the defense where you bring up your elbows into their punches.

from the article

The striking surface: The point of impact should be as if it was coming from either the second or third web spaces [between the index or first finger and the long finger knuckles OR between the long finger knuckle and the ring finger knuckle]. In truth, you will strike your knuckle fist and not the web spaces between the knuckles, but if you focus on either of these points then the hand is aligned properly. The difference between the two points is that the first one (between the index and long fingers) is for a straight on punch, whereas the second one (between the long and ring finger) is for a 3/4 twist punch.

where does this go with punches. seems like they are advocating both styles. a 3/4 punch is a karate punch right? would have thrown those out of fighting a long time ago. but the 3/4 rotation could be brought into a more relaxed effective punch i suppose

 

[manly]

Totally agree. Double the rounds or make them unlimited. May the best cardio win. Don't have cardio? Then you better KO them early. They need to apply this to boxing as well. Too many stupid ass decisions. We don't want to see that crap, we want all out win or go home - it's the american way to be extreme.

boxing championship fights used to be 15 rounds, and even more before modern times. Of course more fighters died from head injuries, and Ali is afflicted with Parkinson's disease...

 

[BikeJunkie]

A couple of good points in this thread:

1 - Main events should never be limited to 3 rounds. That's stupid.

2 - Fighters positioning themselves for a decision win should be punished. I have no idea how to do this, I'm just saying it sucks when you're halfway into a fight and one or both fighters start trying to play a numbers game rather than KO'ing/submitting their opponent.