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Is The School Hiding Something? Kendrick Johnson Murder or Freak Accident?

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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
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Unless the police loosened the mat before they look the picture, it looks like he has an awful lot of wiggle room in that thing.
I dunno... it sounds like it was an extremely heavy mat, surrounded by several others. Not sure how much wiggle room you'd really have, or whether any wiggle room at all would help you if you're upside down, struggling against a pliable rubbery mat, and the forces of gravity, as blood rushes to your brain and potentially as you're getting low on oxygen.

From what I'm hearing, just being upside down could have been enough to kill him, regardless of the air issue... but I'm not positive on that.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I dunno... it sounds like it was an extremely heavy mat, surrounded by several others. Not sure how much wiggle room you'd really have, or whether any wiggle room at all would help you if you're upside down, struggling against a pliable rubbery mat, and the forces of gravity, as blood rushes to your brain and potentially as you're getting low on oxygen.

From what I'm hearing, just being upside down could have been enough to kill him, regardless of the air issue... but I'm not positive on that.
From what I understand hanging upside down causes blood to collect in the head/brain as the body is not designed to pump blood away. If a person has an aneurism it could lead to an instant death. Also the effects of gravity would cause compression of the diaphragm from the small and large intestines making it extremely difficult to breathe and lead to suffocation.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
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Something I was thinking about, which I'd like others to weigh in on:

Some people have expressed disbelief that this one particular mat would be rolled up so much more loosely than the others we see, loosely enough to fit a body. Well, I was considering that issue...



those are clearly much more tightly rolled than the one he was in, right? But how much slack is there within the ties they use to hold them together? I'm not sure.



Now admittedly, that one looks like it was rolled that way... even looks like it was rolled with him already inside of it. However, is it possible that this mat was in fact rolled more loosely than others, but not as loosely as it ended up?

As in, could his shoe have gone down into it, but not all the way to the bottom? Let's say it was looser than the others, but only half as loose as it appears with his body inside of it. Others on other sites have expressed disbelief that he could have possibly thought he would be able to reach a shoe 8 feet below himself if it was all the way on the floor.

What if it was halfway down? What if it was lodged into a loose, but not that loose, mat?

Could it have appeared more doable initially? But by reaching down into there, he got himself caught, and then made it worse by struggling? Could he have actually wriggled his way down further, and encased his entire body rather than just half of it as may have been the case at first, through the act of trying to get out?

Notice how his pair of shoes he was wearing ended up off his feet, next to him. They're exactly where you'd expect if he ended up squirming out of them either deliberately, thinking his unshod feet might have better luck, or accidentally as he struggled, and then gravity just carried them down to his side.

Otherwise, what are we to believe? He was beaten to death just off camera, within a short period of time, by people who counted on nobody coming into the gym, and who knew exactly the sweet spot the cameras didn't cover... then they rolled him up in a mat, and tossed the shoes in beside him? Presumably to hide them? But they didn't toss other items which seem to have been connected to Kendrick in?

I really don't think some racist murder squad or whatever people are theorizing, would choose to strike in a gym in the middle of the day, in a populated school, where someone could walk in at any moment, and there are cameras...

My hunch is the shoe seemed more grabbable at first, but it slipped further down as he attempted to reach it, because he was widening the hole by making the attempt. I think by the time he realized he was having difficulty getting back out, it was too late, and his further struggles just made it worse.



Also, note how the standing mats seem more cylindrical, and seem like they are bulging out much closer to the maximum distance the tie-wrap thing allows for, just like the one Kendrick is in.

The others (without bodies in them) which are laid flat sort of sink to a flattened look... but is it possible that all of the ones which are standing straight up end up having a hole down the middle? And they only look so tightly packed due to gravity when they're laid flat? Does the natural tendency of the mat to unfurl press it out to the limits of the tie-wrap when it's stood straight up, but gravity makes it flatten out when it's on it's side?

It would be interesting to see the tops of those other mats, they look much more like the Kendrick mat.

EDIT: Ha, upon looking closer it seems the mat he ended up in is an entirely different type (blue, not segmented, different material) than the others, anyway. Some of what I was talking about still applies, but maybe that's the more important factor. His shoe may have ended up going down the one mat which would allow it to do so.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
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I don't think most are suggesting some sinister plot to murder this boy and stash him in a mat happened. But, that doesn't answer how he 'fell' into the mat in the first place and if he did, how did his shoes end up in it. What was he doing in the gym? It was suggested he might have gone to change, but was it at a time when he should change for a sport? Did he perhaps kick his shoe off and it land on top of the mat. He then climbed over them to retrieve it and somehow ended up head first (slipped or lost his balance, maybe the mats moved) into the mat. And then, in the time it takes for him to suffocate (which can't be very quickly), he was unable to maybe tumble the mat over on it's side? That would be my first instinct. Perhaps wiggling around halfway in it only made him slide further?

Then the police mishandled his body / organs and tried to pass the blame. I don't have a problem with the funeral home putting newspaper inside him. Something has to be inside him to make him look full I'd imagine. I think at the minimum the family will get a lawsuit out of it. Sadly, I don't think they will get answers as to what really happened.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,603
24
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EDIT: Ha, upon looking closer it seems the mat he ended up in is an entirely different type (blue, not segmented, different material) than the others, anyway. Some of what I was talking about still applies, but maybe that's the more important factor. His shoe may have ended up going down the one mat which would allow it to do so.
I was going to point out that they were different until I saw your edit. The segmented ones would definitely roll up tighter due to those segments.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
2
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EDIT: Ha, upon looking closer it seems the mat he ended up in is an entirely different type (blue, not segmented, different material) than the others, anyway. Some of what I was talking about still applies, but maybe that's the more important factor. His shoe may have ended up going down the one mat which would allow it to do so.
The cuts in the other mats would specifically allow them to roll very tightly, whereas his wouldn't.

These mats are heavy as hell. I am pretty sure if I were stuck in one in the position he was there's no way I'd be able to knock it over or anything.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
81
The cuts in the other mats would specifically allow them to roll very tightly, whereas his wouldn't.

These mats are heavy as hell. I am pretty sure if I were stuck in one in the position he was there's no way I'd be able to knock it over or anything.
glad people noticed that the mats were not the same. that was getting annoying reading.


the one he was in looks like wrestling mats. i have rolled up hundreds of them. you can get them tighter then that. We would usually end up getting them about with enough room to shove in a shoe. a body? hell no we would have to re-roll them.

Yes they are heavy as fuck. if you were in one there would be nothing you could do.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
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the one he was in looks like wrestling mats. i have rolled up hundreds of them. you can get them tighter then that. We would usually end up getting them about with enough room to shove in a shoe. a body? hell no we would have to re-roll them.
And if a shoe was halfway down into the hole, and a person started reaching down in to get it, do you think that person could inadvertently widen the inner hole enough to get stuck down into it themselves?

This obviously might depend on the tie-wrap used to hold the rolled up mat together, and how much slack it had.

And of course there's still the possibility it was just not rolled any tighter than it ended up, to begin with. As in, always wide enough to accommodate his body. Which of course makes the choice to reach down all the way to the bottom (the gym floor) and try to grab the shoe, more perplexing. May have just been raw stupidity, a belief he could tip the mat over, or an underestimation of how deep down it was.
 
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ABC10

Member
Jun 29, 2013
38
0
0
Yea, thats what's so fishy about this. Not only did the ME put down a false COD....the kid's organs were missing.

I don't think anyone was expecting the family to be so persistent and have the kid exhumed. Now the coroner's office is pointing fingers at the funeral home and vice versa
It is clear that the local cops called in the Georgia Bureau of Investigation immediately because they thought this a suspicious death. The GBI folk did the autopsy and discarded the organs due to decomposing, however, slides were kept of the organs and read by the 2nd autopsy guy. This was not just Andy and helpers investigating the tragedy nor amateur night.
The upright mats were stacked together in the gym and took time to reach and extract the teenager from the mat. These were huge heavy mats not play Lincoln logs.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
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Thing I don't understand is why he would have thought he could retrieve a shoe in an 8' roll. Granted, mats are heavy, but surely anyone could have figured out that the smart thing to do would be to move the roll off the shoe. I don't see how the roll could be tight enough to stop a shoe from falling all the way down, yet also loose enough to get his head and shoulder in. That makes me think the shoe must have been on the floor, and while he might not have been the brightest bulb he was surely bright enough to know how far his arm will reach and the floor would not even be close.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
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Thing I don't understand is why he would have thought he could retrieve a shoe in an 8' roll. Granted, mats are heavy, but surely anyone could have figured out that the smart thing to do would be to move the roll off the shoe. I don't see how the roll could be tight enough to stop a shoe from falling all the way down, yet also loose enough to get his head and shoulder in. That makes me think the shoe must have been on the floor, and while he might not have been the brightest bulb he was surely bright enough to know how far his arm will reach and the floor would not even be close.
People have certainly done stupider shit in the annals of human history.

He may have envisioned some scenario where he would grab the shoe, then rock the mat to make it fall over and he'd slide out, or even a scenario where he'd be able to pull himself out upward. Sounds implausible, but he was a teenager in good physical shape, and may have felt he could just figure something out, and make it work. May really not have been THINKING much at all. It isn't unheard of.





 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
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People have certainly done stupider shit in the annals of human history.

He may have envisioned some scenario where he would grab the shoe, then rock the mat to make it fall over and he'd slide out, or even a scenario where he'd be able to pull himself out upward. Sounds implausible, but he was a teenager in good physical shape, and may have felt he could just figure something out, and make it work. May really not have been THINKING much at all. It isn't unheard of.

SNIP
True, much more stupid things have been done, but usually they involve friends or alcohol. Usually they involve friends AND alcohol. And usually they are white boys. Don't generally see a brother saying "Hey Jamal, jump off the roof and land on my balls."
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
0
True, much more stupid things have been done, but usually they involve friends or alcohol. Usually they involve friends AND alcohol. And usually they are white boys. Don't generally see a brother saying "Hey Jamal, jump off the roof and land on my balls."
Yea, but I'm just saying it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

This is particularly true if he did not even perceive that there was a threat to his life.

He may have been conceiving of the situation as entirely non-threatening. Some soft mats he has worked out on numerous times...

Soft, foamy, pliable mats. In the middle of the day. At his school. There are people around.

How many people who haven't had to help put those away (which he may or may not have) appreciate their weight and rigidity when rolled up like that?

Doesn't the very fact that so many people are incredulous that someone could die like he seems to have, demonstrate that he himself probably didn't consider it either?

Yet, it would appear that (whether he did or not) a person CAN die in the way described. At least, that's my understanding.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
So, SUPPOSEDLY. This is confirmed by his parents.

This is the state of his body from the other end when he was found.


I don't know guys.....



WARNING





Before we get down there.

This is Kendrick's father trying to get inside a similar mat to the one they found Kendrick in. Supposedly rolled up the same way. But, if this boy was built anything like his father, I'd say his shoulders would have made it hard for him to slip in. Just like we see here.












































































 
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Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
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So, SUPPOSEDLY. This is confirmed by his parents.

This is the state of his body from the other end when he was found.

I don't know guys.....

WARNING
Are you just now seeing that picture? That's the famous picture attached to this case that's been out there since I first heard of it months ago.

The explanation for why his face looks like that which I've heard, and which rings true for me, is that because he was upside down for what, 22 hours before they found him? Several hours, at least... all the bodily fluids in him pooled in his head and face due to gravity.

If he died because all the blood rushed to his head, it stands to reason it was still there when he was found and photographed. Other bodily fluids, as well.

It's an unusual manner of death and a gruesome result. Natural for people, especially parents and people who aren't medical professionals, to look at that and think his head is swollen from a severe beating or something...

I don't think the place this happened or the timeline even allows for a beating like that. That would have to be a world class super-beating.

I think blood pooling in his head via gravity makes much more sense.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
Excuse me for not trolling the internet for pictures of his dead face sooner. I just saw this and only because I clicked "images" on the google search.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
Yea, but I'm just saying it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

This is particularly true if he did not even perceive that there was a threat to his life.

He may have been conceiving of the situation as entirely non-threatening. Some soft mats he has worked out on numerous times...

Soft, foamy, pliable mats. In the middle of the day. At his school. There are people around.

How many people who haven't had to help put those away (which he may or may not have) appreciate their weight and rigidity when rolled up like that?

Doesn't the very fact that so many people are incredulous that someone could die like he seems to have, demonstrate that he himself probably didn't consider it either?

Yet, it would appear that (whether he did or not) a person CAN die in the way described. At least, that's my understanding.
Yeah, I certainly don't think it's impossible for him to have died just the way they said. It does bother me though that the PD seems to have adopted this "investigation is over" stance. In such a situation, seems to me the wise thing to do is to make sure everyone has had a chance to look at the evidence who wants to do so. Otherwise people tend not to believe that a freak accident was actually an accident.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
Excuse me for not trolling the internet for pictures of his dead face sooner. I just saw this and only because I clicked "images" on the google search.
That is gruesome, but not unexpected. Not only was he upside down, pressurizing the head, but he's also in a very confined and effectively insulated space. Heat would have a very hard time escaping, which is going to speed up decomposition by providing optimum conditions for our normal bacteria load while killing off the immune system that keeps them in check.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
That is gruesome, but not unexpected. Not only was he upside down, pressurizing the head, but he's also in a very confined and effectively insulated space. Heat would have a very hard time escaping, which is going to speed up decomposition by providing optimum conditions for our normal bacteria load while killing off the immune system that keeps them in check.
I figured he would look gross when they pulled him out. I was just saying that I wasn't actively seeking out a picture of his face.

I do feel bad for his family though, searching for answers and reeling over the loss of Kendrick.

I hope they can find some closure at some point in the future.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
I figured he would look gross when they pulled him out. I was just saying that I wasn't actively seeking out a picture of his face.

I do feel bad for his family though, searching for answers and reeling over the loss of Kendrick.

I hope they can find some closure at some point in the future.
I too. Losing a child is the single worst thing that can happen to a parent.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,776
4
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I wanted to look at the issue of his father sticking his head in the mat.

I'm not entirely sure what he was trying to prove there...





the fact is, his son was fully inside a rolled up mat.

So we're left with a couple of possibilities:

1.) The mat Kendrick ended up in was not rolled as tightly as the one his father stuck his head into.

2.) The mat was rolled as tightly, and Kendrick's shoe was lodged partway down the hole. In the act of reaching for it, Kendrick inadvertently expanded the gap with his body as he slipped down into it. His own struggling to back out may have only served to make him go further in. It would be particularly tragic if, had he just stopped moving, some or most of his body might have still been visible to the next people to come into the gym, triggering assistance.

3.) The mat was rolled up with him already inside

Also worth pointing out is that Kendrick had gravity working against him where the father does not. It's also hard to believe Kendrick wasn't at least somewhat smaller than his father.
 
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ABC10

Member
Jun 29, 2013
38
0
0
I don't think most are suggesting some sinister plot to murder this boy and stash him in a mat happened. But, that doesn't answer how he 'fell' into the mat in the first place and if he did, how did his shoes end up in it. What was he doing in the gym? It was suggested he might have gone to change, but was it at a time when he should change for a sport? Did he perhaps kick his shoe off and it land on top of the mat. He then climbed over them to retrieve it and somehow ended up head first (slipped or lost his balance, maybe the mats moved) into the mat. And then, in the time it takes for him to suffocate (which can't be very quickly), he was unable to maybe tumble the mat over on it's side? That would be my first instinct. Perhaps wiggling around halfway in it only made him slide further?

Then the police mishandled his body / organs and tried to pass the blame. I don't have a problem with the funeral home putting newspaper inside him. Something has to be inside him to make him look full I'd imagine. I think at the minimum the family will get a lawsuit out of it. Sadly, I don't think they will get answers as to what really happened.
Georgia Bureau of Investigation handled the autopsy, the body and organs not the local police. The Sheriff was smart enough to call in the GBI immediately when the death looked suspicious. Do we really think the school, the local LE and the GBI are in some kind of conspiracy with this tragedy? Beside Ben Crump, another lawyer from Ambulance Chaser University.
 
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ABC10

Member
Jun 29, 2013
38
0
0
I figured he would look gross when they pulled him out. I was just saying that I wasn't actively seeking out a picture of his face.

I do feel bad for his family though, searching for answers and reeling over the loss of Kendrick.

I hope they can find some closure at some point in the future.
There is no closure. Just missing that person for the rest of our lives learning to live with the pain and grief whether accident or foul play.
The GBI stated they stand by their reports and conclusion in spite of the 2nd autopsy. GBI provided organ slides taken to the person who did the 2nd autopsy too.
It took the PD lots of time to get through the mats to reach the mat standing upright containing the body. It was no easy matter. The mats difficult to move. I don't think there was enough time before the classes arrived and poor Kendrick entering the gym for anyone to roll him up in a mat, move the other mats to place the one containing his body in the middle of the mats. The school video needs to be shown in its entirety whatever it takes.
 
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