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Is the PS3 unhackable?

fustercluck

fustercluck

Diamond Member
Just curious as an outsider. I've never had a PS3 but t's been out for a long time and from my knowledge there's still no way to play backups. Am I correct?

Seems like someone would of figured out a way to play backups on it by now. Why is the PS3 so difficult to mod/hack as opposed to the Wii or 360? Are hackers/crackers making any headway? Hope I didn't embarrass myself too much with my lack of knowledge 😛
 
fustercluck said:
Just curious as an outsider. I've never had a PS3 but t's been out for a long time and from my knowledge there's still no way to play backups. Am I correct?

Seems like someone would of figured out a way to play backups on it by now. Why is the PS3 so difficult to mod/hack as opposed to the Wii or 360? Are hackers/crackers making any headway? Hope I didn't embarrass myself too much with my lack of knowledge 😛
Click to expand...

Who said it was more difficult to hack? Gotta look at the big picture. How many people do you know have blu-ray burners? Do you know how expensive the media is? Also, look at it from a numbers standpoint. There are more 360s in circulation than PS3s, so your more likely to see mods/hacks come out for it. Then of course there is the PR. The 360 tends to stay in the news more because Microsoft is trying to clamp down on piracy and online cheating. There are plenty of websites that discuss what your talking about. Why do you care if they are making "headway"? Are you only interested in getting a PS3 if your able to pirate games?
 
Well every PS3 has a hdd, if a mod more like the orignial xbox came about allowing booting from it instead of optical media it could make a lot of sense. Especially if it is a total jailbreak and off the shelf hdd's can be swapped in. Could make for quite the potent linux htpc with full access to the graphics hardware and maybe a port of XBMC.
 
purbeast0 said:
lol strange timing...

http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/ps3-hacked-by-geohotz.html
Click to expand...

ahah, strange timing indeed.

MStele said:
Who said it was more difficult to hack? Gotta look at the big picture. How many people do you know have blu-ray burners? Do you know how expensive the media is? Also, look at it from a numbers standpoint. There are more 360s in circulation than PS3s, so your more likely to see mods/hacks come out for it. Then of course there is the PR. The 360 tends to stay in the news more because Microsoft is trying to clamp down on piracy and online cheating. There are plenty of websites that discuss what your talking about. Why do you care if they are making "headway"? Are you only interested in getting a PS3 if your able to pirate games?
Click to expand...

So you don't think it's unusual for it to take 3+ years to hack a gaming console? I sure do.
 
I think it is the same reason that you see less hackers attack OSX, there's just less of them out there. Most have focused on the Xbox 360 or Wii. The security measures of the PS3 and 360 are actually comparable (hypervisors and whatnot)
 
http://hack5.blogspot.com/2008/03/exclsuive-why-ps3-still-isnt-hacked.html

Basically 2 points.

1. The Blu Ray drive is a very effective first line because of its rarity and expense. Also the PS3 uses custom firmware that makes most of the techniques hackers use to hack systems ineffective.
2. The PS3 has more security. There is a special program on the PS3 that continually monitors whether or not someone is tampering with it. And I assume if it catches something, insta brick.

It's not a matter of people focusing on it. The PS3 just uses new technologies that prevent easy hacks.
 
MStele said:
Who said it was more difficult to hack? Gotta look at the big picture. How many people do you know have blu-ray burners? Do you know how expensive the media is? Also, look at it from a numbers standpoint. There are more 360s in circulation than PS3s, so your more likely to see mods/hacks come out for it. Then of course there is the PR. The 360 tends to stay in the news more because Microsoft is trying to clamp down on piracy and online cheating. There are plenty of websites that discuss what your talking about. Why do you care if they are making "headway"? Are you only interested in getting a PS3 if your able to pirate games?
Click to expand...

I don't understand the point of this post. Either it has been hacked or it hasn't. There does not need to be an economic reason for it. People hack things because they're there. Your justifications for it not being hacked is because it is unpopular or not economical, which is banal. How many hackers do you know make money off their hacks? Not many if any cause of the legal dogs. If anything, they do it for bragging rights. A PS3 is as much a challenge for anyone as anything out there and SONY did an excellent job where others have failed (including SONY on the PSP front)...


tenshodo13 said:
http://hack5.blogspot.com/2008/03/exclsuive-why-ps3-still-isnt-hacked.html

Basically 2 points.

1. The Blu Ray drive is a very effective first line because of its rarity and expense. Also the PS3 uses custom firmware that makes most of the techniques hackers use to hack systems ineffective.
2. The PS3 has more security. There is a special program on the PS3 that continually monitors whether or not someone is tampering with it. And I assume if it catches something, insta brick.

It's not a matter of people focusing on it. The PS3 just uses new technologies that prevent easy hacks.
Click to expand...

I hope other companies, including Microsoft and Nintendo, follow SONY's lead on this front. The last thing we need are assholes ruining the gaming experience like they did music and computer games, in order to play their 'backup' copies. If anything, SONY smartly tipped their hats to legitimate hackers by including the Linux optional install. However, they prevented people from getting access to the GPU cause we all know what would have happened. Unfortunately, many people, including me, did not utilize it and it was subsequently removed. Also, Microsoft, SONY, and Nintendo now offer downloadable games so the excuse for a 'backup' is gone.
 
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Dari said:
I don't understand the point of this post. Either it has been hacked or it hasn't. There does not need to be an economic reason for it. People hack things because they're there. Your justifications for it not being hacked is because it is unpopular or not economical, which is banal. How many hackers do you know make money off their hacks? Not many if any cause of the legal dogs. If anything, they do it for bragging rights. A PS3 is as much a challenge for anyone as anything out there and SONY did an excellent job where others have failed (including SONY on the PSP front)...
Click to expand...

Agreed. Either it's hacked or it isn't. And from a numbers game, the PS3 has largely caught up to the Xbox 360. Enough to say that they are on roughly equal footing.

I hope other companies, including Microsoft and Nintendo, follow SONY's lead on this front. The last thing we need are assholes ruining the gaming experience like they did music and computer games, in order to play their 'backup' copies. If anything, SONY smartly tipped their hats to legitimate hackers by including the Linux optional install. However, they prevented people from getting access to the GPU cause we all know what would have happened. Unfortunately, many people, including me, did not utilize it and it was subsequently removed. Also, Microsoft, SONY, and Nintendo now offer downloadable games so the excuse for a 'backup' is gone.
Click to expand...

I don't mind them protecting their copyrights and preventing copyright infringement. What I have a problem with is that there really isn't any real way to back up my media. Sh!t happens and we've all experienced scratched discs that no longer works. Either get me media that is near indestructible or have a clear cut method to back up the media so I can preserve the original. I can tell you that my kid has destroyed more than one disc and she's only one years old.

You mention downloaded games but again, look at Sony's policies which are crap. I don't know current policy but movies you bought and downloaded from Sony can't be re-downloaded. That is their official policy. I heard you can call Sony up and they'll de-authorize the previous console and allow you a re-download but tread with caution on that front. Also not sure on downloaded games. Nintendo also currently has no way to back up your downloaded content. Point is, while you may be able to download movies and games, if you lose it somehow or your console breaks, you may still be screwed and forced to buy another.

As far as music (and to a lesser degree movies) go, most of the mainstream stuff has been puke-worthy and they deserve all the lost sales. I am bi-lingual and haven't bought a CD in roughly 10 years. Don't miss it either since I mostly listen to my old collection of CD's. The times I've turned on the radio, I haven't been impressed with the current "hot" songs. I've also only felt a handful of movies in the last few years are worth watching. Most of them suck badly. Bottom line, music and movies being ruined was due to the music publishers and movie makers and not pirates.
 
Dari said:
I don't understand the point of this post. Either it has been hacked or it hasn't. There does not need to be an economic reason for it. People hack things because they're there. Your justifications for it not being hacked is because it is unpopular or not economical, which is banal. How many hackers do you know make money off their hacks? Not many if any cause of the legal dogs. If anything, they do it for bragging rights. A PS3 is as much a challenge for anyone as anything out there and SONY did an excellent job where others have failed (including SONY on the PSP front)...
Click to expand...

The OP asked why it was so much more difficult to hack the PS3. My point was that it wasn't any more difficult, but that were logistical hurdles to overcome that aren't there for the 360. Remember that many of these mods/hacks originated for black market exploitation in order to make money, and since dvd is the most common distribution medium (they are cheap to mass copy, thus higher profit margins) you'll find that there will be more avenues to acquire these sorts of mods. As a hobbyist in the US, we are buffered well from the Asian market, but in Russia and China sales of illegal software is huge business. The PS3 is much less economical to exploit in this way, therefore you'll find the available of mods/hacks correlates to this. So your right about many hackers doing it for bragging rights, but there are just as many doing it for hard cash. We have this idealist anti-society view about hackers, but in truth for many its a skill set used to make money, whereever it may be found.
 
akugami said:
I don't mind them protecting their copyrights and preventing copyright infringement. What I have a problem with is that there really isn't any real way to back up my media. Sh!t happens and we've all experienced scratched discs that no longer works. Either get me media that is near indestructible or have a clear cut method to back up the media so I can preserve the original. I can tell you that my kid has destroyed more than one disc and she's only one years old.

You mention downloaded games but again, look at Sony's policies which are crap. I don't know current policy but movies you bought and downloaded from Sony can't be re-downloaded. That is their official policy. I heard you can call Sony up and they'll de-authorize the previous console and allow you a re-download but tread with caution on that front. Also not sure on downloaded games. Nintendo also currently has no way to back up your downloaded content. Point is, while you may be able to download movies and games, if you lose it somehow or your console breaks, you may still be screwed and forced to buy another.

As far as music (and to a lesser degree movies) go, most of the mainstream stuff has been puke-worthy and they deserve all the lost sales. I am bi-lingual and haven't bought a CD in roughly 10 years. Don't miss it either since I mostly listen to my old collection of CD's. The times I've turned on the radio, I haven't been impressed with the current "hot" songs. I've also only felt a handful of movies in the last few years are worth watching. Most of them suck badly. Bottom line, music and movies being ruined was due to the music publishers and movie makers and not pirates.
Click to expand...

I will admit that, not having kids, I don't see the whole picture with regards to 'backups'. I like to collect things so I keep everything sealed away. I cannot imagine chasing after kids' software. In that sense, backup would be convenient. The only problem is, for each person like you, there's a hundred thieves who just want to play games they got illegally. I don't know about movies but on PSN, iirc, you can re-download games. I'm not sure about movies. Nevertheless, hopefully these companies will take yours and other legitimate complaints. One problem may be the retail stores and Luddites' aversion to downloads only, which would force these companies to address these concerns head-on. Hopefully, some smart engineers can figure a way out of that.
 
MStele said:
The OP asked why it was so much more difficult to hack the PS3. My point was that it wasn't any more difficult, but that were logistical hurdles to overcome that aren't there for the 360. Remember that many of these mods/hacks originated for black market exploitation in order to make money, and since dvd is the most common distribution medium (they are cheap to mass copy, thus higher profit margins) you'll find that there will be more avenues to acquire these sorts of mods. As a hobbyist in the US, we are buffered well from the Asian market, but in Russia and China sales of illegal software is huge business. The PS3 is much less economical to exploit in this way, therefore you'll find the available of mods/hacks correlates to this. So your right about many hackers doing it for bragging rights, but there are just as many doing it for hard cash. We have this idealist anti-society view about hackers, but in truth for many its a skill set used to make money, whereever it may be found.
Click to expand...

So, in your opinion, the primary reasoning is the format? Perhaps that is why Nintendo came out with the irregular DVDs for their Gamecube? That may be true for those in the third world. But the origin of a lot of these hacks are still in the West, afaik. Also, everyone loves a challenge and to not hear of anything in 3 years speaks volumes of their security features.
 
Dari said:
So, in your opinion, the primary reasoning is the format? Perhaps that is why Nintendo came out with the irregular DVDs for their Gamecube? That may be true for those in the third world. But the origin of a lot of these hacks are still in the West, afaik. Also, everyone loves a challenge and to not hear of anything in 3 years speaks volumes of their security features.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it is the primary reason, but I believe it is one of a few reasons why large scale piracy of PS3 games is not as rampant as 360 games. As mentioned above by others, it is format along with more comprehensive encryption tools that make it more complex. So in short, its not that its any harder to do....it just requires a more comprehensive approach. It's all relative. In comparison, the 360 is ridiculously easy to mod, and games can be copied on pretty much any current PC with a DVD drive assuming you have the software to do it. Give it a year or two and this conversation won't matter anymore.

A topic for another day, but I think in the long run this type of piracy will be drastically reduced as digital distribution entrenches itself into day to day life. I wouldn't be surprised if all games for the PS4/Xbox720 require account activation i.e. Steam style. Just an opinion.
 
Whats the point if you can't play hacked games on PSN online? For emulation stuff or media server it would be cool though.
 
tenshodo13 said:
2. The PS3 has more security. There is a special program on the PS3 that continually monitors whether or not someone is tampering with it. And I assume if it catches something, insta brick.
Click to expand...
The 360 has a hypervisor, too. Folks just happened to find a couple exploits for it earlier on. You've got to remember that not only did the 360 come out earlier, but it took another year or so before the PS3 really started selling well.

Notably, you _could_ run pirated PS2 games on the PS3 20gb/60gb with a trivial hardware mod (altering a resistor, IIRC). So, calling it unhacked seems rather unfair, at least insofar as people were calling the 360 "hacked" when it really couldn't run unsigned code. It annoys the hell out of me when people call a console "hacked" when you can't run homebrew code on it. Doesn't seem right.

Either way, the 360 and PS3 are not broken open in anything resembling the way the Wii, PSP, or DS are, in the sense that they can be easily soft-modded and run unsigned code. Although, if geohot is telling the truth, maybe the PS3 is open like that now. We shall see when he releases some details on the exploit.

And as for the whole "backups" thing - it's pretty telling when you go to scene boards and people are using "backups" as a code word for "pirated copies". Maybe a tiny minority are playing by the rules, but, let's face it, "backup" is just another word for "pirated copy" at this point.
 
I haven't even played my PS3 in months. Busy life.

Anyways, I think that the PS3 is hackable. Don't know how easily but I don't think the reason it hasn't been hacked yet is due to there being less PS3's out there than Xbox 360's nor do I think it is because of the Blu-Ray media. Heck, I've wondered why the PS3 hasn't been hacked to allow a full blown Linux distro to be compiled and installed on it. A $300-400 PC with the computing power of a $1000 PC seems like a Linux geek's wet dream. Especially those into number crunching cause that's what Cell seems tailor made to do.

Blu-Ray discs can be had for about $4 bucks for roughly half a year now and a Blu-Ray burner is about $200 (give or take a few). For someone who is really into pirating the games, all they would have to do is pirate about five or six games and they would have gotten their investment back on the burner and media. As far as 20GB game files go, you can easily set up a torrent or usenet and have it downloading 24/7. It's not like you have to monitor the darned downloads. You can easily have half a dozen games burned in a one month period.
 
old timey bump

Looks like there are many more options now. Anyone here hack/mod their PS3? Just curious. This may be a bit too risque for anandtech discussion though. Then again hacking/modding your PS3 isn't technically illegal or anything like that. I don't even have a PS3 😛
 
There are videos up on youtube and I think you can buy the USB adaptors online. Not sure if everything is fully working or not. I read somewhere that you could play backed up games if you had the usb device and a real ps3 game in the drive.
 
It's unhackable...and the 2 times that its been close to happening, SONY jumped all over it within a few days to a week...thats why other OS is now gone.
 
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