Is The Middle Class Really Disappearing?

[Incorruptible]

http://writingaboutanythingiwantto....verty-part-2-the-shrinking-middle-class-myth/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrtoSx-NbLQ

The middle class isn't disappearing. Many of the proponents use household income instead of per capita income, people are making more money and moving out of their houses so the household income will drop but the per capita income has actually risen. The rich are getting richer but also many Americans are getting richer as well.

The income range of $35,000-$50,000 is often referred to as the vanishing middle class, they are disappearing because many of them are making more than $50,000 they are getting richer.

As well the way poverty is measured is wrong to make it look like there is more poverty.

Do you believe the middle class is disappearing?

 

[CrackRabbit]

Look our favorite Communist is posting another blog and youtube video about absolutely nothing!


Thread-crapping is not acceptable. If you have nothing to post regarding the thread's topic then you need to choose to simply refrain from posting in the thread.

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[Capt Caveman]

Another troll thread.


Thread-crapping is not acceptable. If you have nothing to post regarding the thread's topic then you need to choose to simply refrain from posting in the thread.

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[Incorruptible]

Look our favorite Communist is posting another blog and youtube video about absolutely nothing!

I am not a communist, I never praised communism, I believe in CAPITALISM

 

[nehalem256]

The middle class isn't disappearing. Many of the proponents use household income instead of per capita income, people are making more money and moving out of their houses

... and into their cars.

 

[Throckmorton]

"The statistics that claim the above fail to include the value of benefits such as health insurance and retirement benefits, etc., which have represented a growing share of compensation over the years. "

LOL. So because health insurance costs are skyrocketing, and my employer pays 60%, I'm somehow getting richer?

 

[dmcowen674]

The middle class isn't disappearing.

Bolded for historical purposes.

 

[nehalem256]

"The statistics that claim the above fail to include the value of benefits such as health insurance and retirement benefits, etc., which have represented a growing share of compensation over the years. "

LOL. So because health insurance costs are skyrocketing, and my employer pays 60%, I'm somehow getting richer?

Actually haven't retirement benefits if anything decreased in recent history due to the elimination of pensions?

 

[Throckmorton]

He also doesn't take into account the increase in dual income households affecting household income.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I am not a communist, I never praised communism, I believe in CAPITALISM

That is exactly what a Pinko Commie would say.


Personal attacks and insults are not allowed in P&N.

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[Infohawk]

From a brief glance, the only real evidence of rising income and wealth is from a 2005 WSJ article. That is the height of the bubble. The other "evidence" is a scanned chart from a book in which we don't get the dates or the source of data.

Also there are different definitions of middle class. You can't just take the median population of a third world country and say "that's the middle class." To me and I think a fair amount of other people, the middle class is a certain lifestyle. It involves having a stable job and affordable health care, having access to decent schools, having a reasonable access to higher education and a certain amount of material comfort a big part of which is a single-family home and several vehicles. Most of the sources I see show these traits going away.

 

[Ninjahedge]

The "Middle Class" is becoming the work horse in Animal Farm.

It is not disappearing, it is being worked to death at the hands of the pigs filling the troughs with sand.

Benefit costs have gone up, but that is not really a "benefit", especially now that things like retirement packages from your company are a thing of the past.

Salaries have remained flat for the past 5 years or so, COL has gone up disproportionately to actual inflation, and numbers have been warped because of dual income (and disproportionate taxation for those earning more than a set amount).

The main problem we have now is that the rich are paying for their own tax cuts through elected officials, and the middle class can't. The gap is getting wider and harder to cross and politicians keep dancing around talking about the "American Dream" when that reality is slowly sliding BACK into dream-land.

The sad part is, most in the middle class have no problem paying taxes, and many know that it actually costs us more to collect and return on the poor than to just leave them the hell alone. They also know that the rich are paying disproportionately less...unless they are colossally stupid or have a REALLY bad accountant. All they want is a little of the burden to be SHARED by the upper class and for people to stop spreading the BS about "trickle down" and all that crap.

Ben Stein is not Emperor.

 

[nehalem256]

The sad part is, most in the middle class have no problem paying taxes, and many know that it actually costs us more to collect and return on the poor than to just leave them the hell alone. They also know that the rich are paying disproportionately less...unless they are colossally stupid or have a REALLY bad accountant. All they want is a little of the burden to be SHARED by the upper class and for people to stop spreading the BS about "trickle down" and all that crap.

Ben Stein is not Emperor.

Hahahaha. Just leaving the poor alone would be an improvement. No more wasting money on the EITC.

 

[Texashiker]

Another troll thread.

Maybe this article will change your opinion

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/12/news/economy/food-stamps-middle-class/index.htm?hpt=hp_c2

In the area discussed in the article, not the country as a whole

The food stamp caseload has increased 240% since the beginning of the recession.

 

[MovingTarget]

Wages have been stagnant or falling for quite some time, the job market is extremely tight, and cost of living is skyrocketing. Heath and retirement benefits have been cut or outright eliminated at many companies. Unions have largely been broken or have withered to irrelevance in most fields. The public educational system fails to meet the basic needs of more and more students. Is the middle class really disappearing? Yes. Very yes.

 

[Texashiker]

Wages have been stagnant or falling for quite some time, the job market is extremely tight, and cost of living is skyrocketing. Heath and retirement benefits have been cut or outright eliminated at many companies. Unions have largely been broken or have withered to irrelevance in most fields. The public educational system fails to meet the basic needs of more and more students. Is the middle class really disappearing? Yes. Very yes.

The middle class was disappearing in the 1990s, its even worse today.

A guy I used to talk to lost his job in the late 1990s. The company he was working for decided the parts the made could be made cheaper in mexico then in Texas.

After losing his job, the government paid for the guy to go to college and learn a new trade.

The government loses tax revenue through lost property taxes, lost wages, lost taxes on the wages, and then the government is going to pay for people to be retrained?

The middle class is in a death spiral. the only way to stop the spiral is to end free trade and bring our jobs back from china.

 

[nehalem256]

The middle class was disappearing in the 1990s, its even worse today.

A guy I used to talk to lost his job in the late 1990s. The company he was working for decided the parts the made could be made cheaper in mexico then in Texas.

After losing his job, the government paid for the guy to go to college and learn a new trade.

The government loses tax revenue through lost property taxes, lost wages, lost taxes on the wages, and then the government is going to pay for people to be retrained?

The middle class is in a death spiral. the only way to stop the spiral is to end free trade and bring our jobs back from china.

This. The path to truth increases in wealth for the US come from producing more with fewer workers in the US. Not by producing it in Chine/Mexico/etc.

Even if we wind up with fewer employees in manufacturing the government still wins, because we will have more jobs than if it went to China, and things like property tax will be paid in the US. This also creates secondary jobs, because the government has more taxes to spend on infrastructure and the remaining workers have more money to spend.

You only need 5-10% more jobs to go from the economy sucking to awesome.

Free trade only works between countries with roughly equal labor costs.

 

[MovingTarget]

This. The path to truth increases in wealth for the US come from producing more with fewer workers in the US. Not by producing it in Chine/Mexico/etc.

Even if we wind up with fewer employees in manufacturing the government still wins, because we will have more jobs than if it went to China, and things like property tax will be paid in the US. This also creates secondary jobs, because the government has more taxes to spend on infrastructure and the remaining workers have more money to spend.

You only need 5-10% more jobs to go from the economy sucking to awesome.

Free trade only works between countries with roughly equal labor costs.

I think I've entered the twilight zone. I've already agreed with cybersage today, and now I agree with nehalem256. We should only have free trade with countries that have similar labor costs/regulations. We should have tarriffs on goods imported from countries like China, Mexico, etc.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Free trade only works between countries with roughly equal labor costs.

This. The "job creators" aren't helping us when the jobs they create are in China.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Hard to make laws against your creditor.

Or laws that will make your strawberries cost more.

PEOPLE have to be willing to pay the difference before we can actually get these things done.

 

[MovingTarget]

http://writingaboutanythingiwantto....verty-part-2-the-shrinking-middle-class-myth/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrtoSx-NbLQ

The middle class isn't disappearing. Many of the proponents use household income instead of per capita income, people are making more money and moving out of their houses so the household income will drop but the per capita income has actually risen. The rich are getting richer but also many Americans are getting richer as well.

The income range of $35,000-$50,000 is often referred to as the vanishing middle class, they are disappearing because many of them are making more than $50,000 they are getting richer.

As well the way poverty is measured is wrong to make it look like there is more poverty.

Do you believe the middle class is disappearing?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Me-ouch.

 

[werepossum]

I think I've entered the twilight zone. I've already agreed with cybersage today, and now I agree with nehalem256. We should only have free trade with countries that have similar labor costs/regulations. We should have tarriffs on goods imported from countries like China, Mexico, etc.

Heh heh, you agree with me too.

Hard to make laws against your creditor.

Or laws that will make your strawberries cost more.

PEOPLE have to be willing to pay the difference before we can actually get these things done.

Amen. Yesterday I had the choice between buying a name brand drill bit made in China for $9 or one made in Germany for $14. I didn't know the relative quality of each, but I DID know that Germany is a country with standard of living, labor rates, and regulatory burden roughly equal to the USA. In other words, Germany is a nation with which we can at least hope to compete. It isn't the same as buying American, but it's a hell of a sight better than buying Red Chinese. Cheaper today is not necessarily cheaper in the long run, and there's a much better shot at getting some of that $14 back in trade with Germany than of getting some of that $9 back in trade with China. Same thing when I bought a new ammeter - only a few more dollars to buy one made in Taiwan.

A quick ride through respective rich and poor neighborhoods should suffice to convince you that the relative porcinity of your cats are reversed.

 

[Incorruptible]

I think I've entered the twilight zone. I've already agreed with cybersage today, and now I agree with nehalem256. We should only have free trade with countries that have similar labor costs/regulations. We should have tarriffs on goods imported from countries like China, Mexico, etc.

I still believe that wages aren't declining and statistics are being fudged to make the situation look bad. I am a big supporter of Capitalism but I still agree that free trade has done more harm than good for the US, its only lead to more jobs being lost to China which really does cause a lot of the worlds problems.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Maybe this article will change your opinion

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/12/news/economy/food-stamps-middle-class/index.htm?hpt=hp_c2

In the area discussed in the article, not the country as a whole

Thanks for proving the OP Troll wrong.


No insults or personal attacks.

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