Is the High School Diploma Meaningless?

[tnitsuj]

from USATODAY.COM

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from USATODAY.COM

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

If schools were performing at an acceptable level, I would disagree...but....you are right; our standards suck.

 

[cjgallen]

High school was a joke. I graduated a year early without studying once.

You gotta keep the standards low if you don't want to leave any child behind

 

[EagleKeeper]

It is meaningless in terms of the educations that is provided now days.

However, it can still be used as a yardstick for measuring the drive/determination of a person.

One who drops out of HS will usually be less reliable than one that at least finished.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
It is meaningless in terms of the educations that is provided nodays.

However, it can still be used as a yardstick for measuring the drive/determination of a person.

One who drops out of HS will usually be less reliable than one that at least finished.

Yep - so it's turned into a certificate of attendance and little more.

********
"standards"? High schools have standards? You mean they actually have guidelines you need to meet to attain something? Where are the ~buts? Shouldn't they have a "right" to be called a high school graduate even if they don't meet the requirements?

Meh - I'm thinking about homeschooling my kids....now if my wife would just get a big enough raise...

CkG

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from USATODAY.COM

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

is there RELIABLE non biased research on this subject? It would be interesting to see the differences between 1st world countries (if there is any)

 

[alchemize]

~buts will tell you that yeah our education sucks, but that is because we a) don't spend enough money on it b) put all this competitive pressure on the kiddies to perform.

Homeschooling/private is really the only option if you want to make sure your kids get a good education pre-college.

 

[Zephyr106]

IIRC most other first world nations don't have a universal track for all their students. Rather the best and brightest go into college prepatory schools to become doctors, lawyers, etc., technically inclined students go to technical high schools to become engineers, etc., artists go to art high school, and rest go to trade schools, etc. It is specialization much like the US university system but several years earlier.

Zephyr

 

[minendo]

It takes more effort to go to the store and buy toliet paper then it does to earn a high school diploma.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from USATODAY.COM

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

I feel like you're the keeper of your own education. The schools are no more than long term babysitters, and always have been. I never found many limits to what I wanted to search out and learn on my own, and those that would help me in my pursuits. My folks always encouraged reading and exploring and provided a positive example. Blaming the schools for the lack of educations is the biggest crock, people are just naturally lazy. Many of the people I've met in my life with nothing more than a high school diploma, are the most interesting, well read and rounded people I know, whereas some of the folks with the most paper on the wall are not able to even hold an interesting conversation.

 

[Cerb]

Is it meaningless? It's USA Today, so um...yeah.

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well. Why is it that now I spend around 10 hours each week in a classroom, and learn more than when I spent 36!? Of course I could give many reasons why, so don't bother replying to that.

And...11th grade, after taking the SATs, in homeroom, a girl speaks up, talking about it:
"I ain't never seen no math with numbers before!"

IMO, it's very simple. People have not changed. We have a similar bell curve in intelligence and achievement (including potential achievement) as in the past. SO if you increase the numbers in high school, you decrease the value of the diploma. If you increase the number of people succeeding in high school, you further devalue it.
In addition, the techniques leading to doing this can often hinder those of us who gave a damn, and who might want or even need good jobs (doctors aren't free, and I cost a lot each month).

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from USATODAY.COM

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

is there RELIABLE non biased research on this subject? It would be interesting to see the differences between 1st world countries (if there is any)

No, none...AT P&N is on the cutting edge of academic research.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Cerb

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well.

Nice...the "easy" way out...the American way.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: Cerb

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well.

Nice...the "easy" way out...the American way.

Which would you go for:
A. Work your ass off, have no time for anything else, get OK grades, and be just another guy with a diploma
B. Work half as much, have time and energy for a social life, and have something that is seen as superior to A.

Not a hard decision, is it? Especially if you'd have gone with B even if you had finished A.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Nice...the "easy" way out...the American way.

Which would you go for:
A. Work your ass off, have no time for anything else, get OK grades, and be just another guy with a diploma
B. Work half as much, have time and energy for a social life, and have something that is seen as superior to A.

[/quote]


1.) A

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Cerb
Is it meaningless? It's USA Today, so um...yeah.

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well. Why is it that now I spend around 10 hours each week in a classroom, and learn more than when I spent 36!? Of course I could give many reasons why, so don't bother replying to that.

And...11th grade, after taking the SATs, in homeroom, a girl speaks up, talking about it:
"I ain't never seen no math with numbers before!"

IMO, it's very simple. People have not changed. We have a similar bell curve in intelligence and achievement (including potential achievement) as in the past. SO if you increase the numbers in high school, you decrease the value of the diploma. If you increase the number of people succeeding in high school, you further devalue it.
In addition, the techniques leading to doing this can often hinder those of us who gave a damn, and who might want or even need good jobs (doctors aren't free, and I cost a lot each month).

When you hit the real world, an AA does not carry much weight.
Yes more than a HS, but by not having a HS or GED, it shows that you do not have the stamina/fortitude to handle the grunt work.
What is said about the easy way out will show. Best thing is to ensure that you have a HS to show along with the AA.

 

[Vic]

Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs, and Michael Dell all have only high school diplomas, and no college degrees(except maybe some honoraries).

I've met high school dropouts with high incomes, and doctorates with low incomes. Of course, those are the exceptions rather than the rule, but my point is that education alone does not determine income, nor should it IMO. Intelligence, ambition, skill, and work ethic are far more important IMO.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Cerb
Is it meaningless? It's USA Today, so um...yeah.

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well. Why is it that now I spend around 10 hours each week in a classroom, and learn more than when I spent 36!? Of course I could give many reasons why, so don't bother replying to that.

And...11th grade, after taking the SATs, in homeroom, a girl speaks up, talking about it:
"I ain't never seen no math with numbers before!"

IMO, it's very simple. People have not changed. We have a similar bell curve in intelligence and achievement (including potential achievement) as in the past. SO if you increase the numbers in high school, you decrease the value of the diploma. If you increase the number of people succeeding in high school, you further devalue it.
In addition, the techniques leading to doing this can often hinder those of us who gave a damn, and who might want or even need good jobs (doctors aren't free, and I cost a lot each month).

When you hit the real world, an AA does not carry much weight.
Yes more than a HS, but by not having a HS or GED, it shows that you do not have the stamina/fortitude to handle the grunt work.
What is said about the easy way out will show. Best thing is to ensure that you have a HS to show along with the AA.

I wasn't aware you could get into a AA degree program without at least a GED; maybe it depends on the program.

Either way, yes, many programs that you can get an AA degree in will only take you so far. However, once you have that AA degree you can always go to a 4 year college and get a Bachelors degree in whatever you got the AA degree in.(remember, you have 60 credits now, only 60 more to a Bachelors)

 

[CanOWorms]

Well, I would expect our high school education on average to not be stellar, especially since we have such a large student population & it's free.

However, our universities are top-notch, the best in the world. It's really amazing how the US just dominates at this level. Of course foreign students help us in this area.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Cerb
Is it meaningless? It's USA Today, so um...yeah.

I don't have mine, and instead am going straight for an Associates in CS, because it's easier, and will be seen better--rightfully so, as well. Why is it that now I spend around 10 hours each week in a classroom, and learn more than when I spent 36!? Of course I could give many reasons why, so don't bother replying to that.

And...11th grade, after taking the SATs, in homeroom, a girl speaks up, talking about it:
"I ain't never seen no math with numbers before!"

IMO, it's very simple. People have not changed. We have a similar bell curve in intelligence and achievement (including potential achievement) as in the past. SO if you increase the numbers in high school, you decrease the value of the diploma. If you increase the number of people succeeding in high school, you further devalue it.
In addition, the techniques leading to doing this can often hinder those of us who gave a damn, and who might want or even need good jobs (doctors aren't free, and I cost a lot each month).

When you hit the real world, an AA does not carry much weight.
Yes more than a HS, but by not having a HS or GED, it shows that you do not have the stamina/fortitude to handle the grunt work.

I don't have the stamina for grunt work. Rather, I cannot stand the vast majority of environments grunt work will be done in. The social sciences building at my college just got new carpet. I've missed three days because I can't breathe in there. I realized retail jobs utterly sucked after around 20 hours of working at a fabric store. I simply must have a clean environment, and that's that.

What is said about the easy way out will show. Best thing is to ensure that you have a HS to show along with the AA.

Yeah, well, it wasn't my judgement that got me out, though it was the best course of action, looking back.
BTW, is not AA Associate in Arts? I'm going for an AS and then most likely a BS.

 

[EXman]

As a rule, I find people in the US who posess only a high school diploma to be amongst the least educated people in the industrialized world. Our standards quite frankly suck.

WOW BOLD statement!

Are you running Windows? Bill Gates thanks you for your money.

I've met some PhDs that have the social skills of a toddler. Ever heard of an EQ? I've been in a hiring position before if a person cannot work well with others I'd rather have someone else.

As a rule I consider each person as an individual unlike someone who just outed themselves as an insensitive, overeducated, smarty pants, elitist. Or in a word SNOB.
Overeducated = I'm better than you because I consider myself smarter.

So are you better than someone who has only a H.S. education? Be honest

Are you Happier than someone with a H.S. diploma?

Just keeping it real

Last tidbit for you if you look at where the Democrats got their votes in the last presidential election Gore did great in areas that allot of people don't even make it through H.S. i.e. inner-cities. I got a link somewhere let me look.

 

[buckmasterson]

I ended up about 100 out of 160 kids in my high school class. I got a job in the glass industry packing the stuff by hand. Now I'm a Manager that makes more than most Engineers. I'm still here with a high school diploma. It's taken me to 6 countries and 12 states. I have a wonderful family who has supported me through all of this.

Got degrees? Take an aspirin...



buck

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: buckmasterson
I ended up about 100 out of 160 kids in my high school class. I got a job in the glass industry packing the stuff by hand. Now I'm a Manager that makes more than most Engineers. I'm still here with a high school diploma. It's taken me to 6 countries and 12 states. I have a wonderful family who has supported me through all of this.

Got degrees? Take an aspirin...



buck

Wow, I never knew such anomalies existed. My world has just exploded.

 

[Sahakiel]

There are two ways to get ahead in this world : Degrees and Experience.
One requires time, whereas the other requires effort.

The third way is not really a viable track. It's called luck and some people have it, more people don't. If you wish to wager your future on luck, perhaps you should take a good look at Las Vegas.

 

[zephyrprime]

The way everyone talks, it seems to be that the school systems is worse now than it used to be. Is this really so? Is there any proof of this?