is the dual core worth it?

[BFG10K]

Just because something is multithreaded it doesn't mean it'll take advantage of multiple CPUs. If the threads can't run in parallel then it makes little difference if there's 1 or 100 of them.

 

[Logical One]

just cheaper and more cache...

their Ghz in most cases are lower but they can be OC'ed...

dual core is my opinion...got one myself and it feels great to not have to worry about not using my comp to play CS:S or FEAR while I ecode my mass DVD's or DL movies/games/programs...it may sound mundane but the extra core helps...plus most games WILL be dual core soon...

 

[Markbnj]

[Just because something is multithreaded it doesn't mean it'll take advantage of multiple CPUs. If the threads can't run in parallel then it makes little difference if there's 1 or 100 of them. ]

Who says the threads can't run in parallel? You seem to know a lot more about the internal architecture of these games than I do, since you are able to assume that all the threads run serially, waiting for the previous thread to complete. In fact that isn't even close to what happens. I've actually done tests and seen BF2, for example, use up to 75% of both cores. The latest nVidia drivers are multiprocessor optimized, and the core utilization goes up even more when you use them.

You can assert that games are not multithreaded, or that the threads are not running in parallel, all you like. Tests say you're wrong.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Games these days are multiple threaded...

No, in general they aren't and SMP is next to useless in games.

Definitely go with single core for gaming, especially since X2 platforms can have random glitches which are only curable by disabling the second CPU core.

In the first place, there is no way to disable the second core. You CAN set affinity, so that windows will make the EXE allways run on one of the two cores.

Also, saying they are next to worthless is also misleading. The other processes on the computer can run on the other core, and also, nvidia has multi-threaded drivers that show 5-50% improvment in games.

 

[BFG10K]

Who says the threads can't run in parallel?

You tell me.

since you are able to assume that all the threads run serially, waiting for the previous thread to complete.

Uh no, I never said that. What I said was that your assumption that having multiple threads automatically provides performance gains on SMP systems is false.

I've actually done tests and seen BF2, for example, use up to 75% of both cores.

Great. Actual benchmark bumbers show almost no gain in SMP systems for games and show single cores are ahead of dual core systems.

If anything your CPU loadout is coming from offloading DirectX calls to the second CPU which has absolutely nothing to do with the game. Either that or from running background programs which again have absolutely nothing to do with the games themselves.

 

[imported_drx]

Originally posted by: Markbnj
[Just because something is multithreaded it doesn't mean it'll take advantage of multiple CPUs. If the threads can't run in parallel then it makes little difference if there's 1 or 100 of them. ]

Who says the threads can't run in parallel? You seem to know a lot more about the internal architecture of these games than I do, since you are able to assume that all the threads run serially, waiting for the previous thread to complete. In fact that isn't even close to what happens. I've actually done tests and seen BF2, for example, use up to 75% of both cores. The latest nVidia drivers are multiprocessor optimized, and the core utilization goes up even more when you use them.

You can assert that games are not multithreaded, or that the threads are not running in parallel, all you like. Tests say you're wrong.

Let's see a link to your tests. Honestly I don't know where you're getting that number, seems like you're just making it up. Everything I've heard/read/know says that games are not currently benefiting from multicore systems, period. Just because they have multiple threads does not mean they are taking advantage of multiple cores.

 

[BFG10K]

In the first place, there is no way to disable the second core.

AFAIK you can do it in the BIOS.

The other processes on the computer can run on the other core,

Sure but that isn't "strictly for gaming" like the OP asked. If you plan on multitasking while playing games then sure, get an X2 system. But for the best gaming performance single core is the way to go.

and also, nvidia has multi-threaded drivers that show 5-50% improvment in games.

50%? I don't think so. Closer to 5% most of the time, if even that.

 

[Markfw]

BFG10K, Do you own a dual-core CPU ? No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Also, benchmarks never run with a fully configured PC like we all do, with anti-virus, anti-spyware and the like running in the background, these gains are felt when you ACTUALLY OWN ONE AND HAVE USED ONE !

 

[ribbon13]

This is the way I see it. Games are GPU limited mostly, BUT video cards lose thier value much faster than processors. PCI Express is here to stay. So, a year or two years from now, when your GPU is outdated, the vid cards are still gonna be using the same standard. But likely games will still be GPU limited. So why not, get a nice 1MB cache dual core, and whatever video card you can afford. When you're feeling the upgrade itch, games will probably have taken a turn for more SMP optimizations, so no worries on CPU upgrade, and get a nice expensive ass video card

 

[imported_drx]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
BFG10K, Do you own a dual-core CPU ? No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Also, benchmarks never run with a fully configured PC like we all do, with anti-virus, anti-spyware and the like running in the background, these gains are felt when you ACTUALLY OWN ONE AND HAVE USED ONE !

I'm sorry, but you can't quantify how you "feel" your computer is performing. You can, however, provide numbers by benchmarking a system, and those benchmarks show that games perform better on a single higher clocked processor rather than a dual core processor. You cannot dispute this.

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: drx

Originally posted by: Markfw900
BFG10K, Do you own a dual-core CPU ? No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Also, benchmarks never run with a fully configured PC like we all do, with anti-virus, anti-spyware and the like running in the background, these gains are felt when you ACTUALLY OWN ONE AND HAVE USED ONE !

I'm sorry, but you can't quantify how you "feel" your computer is performing. You can, however, provide numbers by benchmarking a system, and those benchmarks show that games perform better on a single higher clocked processor rather than a dual core processor. You cannot dispute this.

The trouble is most people benchmark games by average FPS, but I've noticed dual core helps a lot to keep the minimum FPS higher, which helps games 'feel' smoother.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: drx

Originally posted by: Markfw900
BFG10K, Do you own a dual-core CPU ? No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Also, benchmarks never run with a fully configured PC like we all do, with anti-virus, anti-spyware and the like running in the background, these gains are felt when you ACTUALLY OWN ONE AND HAVE USED ONE !

I'm sorry, but you can't quantify how you "feel" your computer is performing. You can, however, provide numbers by benchmarking a system, and those benchmarks show that games perform better on a single higher clocked processor rather than a dual core processor. You cannot dispute this.

Are you telling me Mcafee and anti-spyware software use NO cpu ? thus they HAVE to use some. Hence it is logical that it would be slightly faster on a fully configured dual-core system. I don;t do benchmarks for a living, nor do I want to spend a week doing benchmarks to prove noobs like you are wrong.

 

[BFG10K]

No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

ACPI uniprocessor PC.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Where are the benchmarks to back your claims?

 

[harobikes333]

I'm planning on getting a 3800 X2. Do you suggest the toledo core, or doesn't it matter?

Also, is the 3800 X2 a good CPU to put with a 7800GT???

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

ACPI uniprocessor PC.

You mean the windows HAL? Last I knew, it's VERY difficult to change that without reinstall

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

ACPI uniprocessor PC.

Thats no bios, thats in windows. And that would be the stupidest thing in the world to do, buy a dual-core and disable use of the second core.

Then maybe its something you would do....

 

[Hacp]

Looks like price/performance isn't what people like MARK strive for.

 

[drwngflies]

"Part of that boost will come from the fact that Direct3D and OS overhead, which accounts for as much as 50% of CPU cycles at times, will be moved to its own CPU."
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050324-4733.html
ColinMcrae 4:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200403/ai_ziff122662
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2377&p=3
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7837/Nake...Entertainment-Demonstrates-RoboHordes/
Along with the Unreal 3 Engine, this game also utilizes Multi-Core CPU's:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/galacticcivilizations/index.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,793451,00.asp
And Perimeter:
http://www.codemasters.com/perimeter/about-game/
And from Intel:
"You can use its two complete execution cores to play a multi-threaded game while running anti-cheat software in the background, or host a multiplayer game while watching a DVD."
http://www.intel.com/personal/gaming/speed_need.htm
Seems even they knew a possible allocation of acore to an appl would be beneficial.
There might be a few more games using it now, but I'm tired on Googling.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Looks like price/performance isn't what people like MARK strive for.

And what makes you say that ? I have all the performance I want for the money, 2 cores for the price of less than 2 systems total cost. Gaming only ? Then its the fastest way to go, but not necessarily best price/performance.

Edit: All my X2 boxes do F@H 24/7 on both cores, like the 820D, its the heater for my house right now....

Edit2: The post above me ? pwned BFG10K and drx......

 

[imported_drx]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: drx

Originally posted by: Markfw900
BFG10K, Do you own a dual-core CPU ? No, I don't think so, and no you can;t diable the second core in the bios.

And I don't have the link memorized, but this are benchmarks that show 5-50% gains. Actually 0% in rare cases, 50-15% in many cases, and 50% in rare cases on the top end, so I was correct.

Also, benchmarks never run with a fully configured PC like we all do, with anti-virus, anti-spyware and the like running in the background, these gains are felt when you ACTUALLY OWN ONE AND HAVE USED ONE !

I'm sorry, but you can't quantify how you "feel" your computer is performing. You can, however, provide numbers by benchmarking a system, and those benchmarks show that games perform better on a single higher clocked processor rather than a dual core processor. You cannot dispute this.

Are you telling me Mcafee and anti-spyware software use NO cpu ? thus they HAVE to use some. Hence it is logical that it would be slightly faster on a fully configured dual-core system. I don;t do benchmarks for a living, nor do I want to spend a week doing benchmarks to prove noobs like you are wrong.

Hah, I was just waiting for someone to resort to calling me a "noob" because they have no argument left. I'm sorry you're wrong, but I guess you can always sit back, look at your post count and feel better about yourself.

 

[harobikes333]

hate to interupt this argument But does anyone have a suggestion on my reply

Originally posted by: harobikes333
I'm planning on getting a 3800 X2. Do you suggest the toledo core, or doesn't it matter?

Also, is the 3800 X2 a good CPU to put with a 7800GT???

Before it gets lost in all the pages...?

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Hacp
Looks like price/performance isn't what people like MARK strive for.

And what makes you say that ? I have all the performance I want for the money, 2 cores for the price of less than 2 systems total cost. Gaming only ? Then its the fastest way to go, but not necessarily best price/performance.

Edit: All my X2 boxes do F@H 24/7 on both cores, like the 820D, its the heater for my house right now....

Edit2: The post above me ? pwned BFG10K......

Are you the OP Gamer who only uses his computer for games???? Also, why aren't you correncting the FUD that the other guy is saying, about games being SMP enabled? Hes spreading a bunch of BS about it, and making people think that most games like BF2 do infact run SMP.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: harobikes333
hate to interupt this argument But does anyone have a suggestion on my reply

Originally posted by: harobikes333
I'm planning on getting a 3800 X2. Do you suggest the toledo core, or doesn't it matter?

Also, is the 3800 X2 a good CPU to put with a 7800GT???

Before it gets lost in all the pages...?

Yes should be fine.

 

[BFG10K]

And that would be the stupidest thing in the world to do, buy a dual-core and disable use of the second core.

This comment has absolutely nothing to do with your original incorrect claim:

In the first place, there is no way to disable the second core

Furthermore you attempted to project that you somehow have more knowledge about the issue because you own an X2 system even though you are blatantly wrong.

Then maybe its something you would do....

I get the feeling I'm arguing with a 12 year old whose daddy just purchased him a X2 system and he can't bear someone pointing our reality.

You mean the windows HAL? Last I knew, it's VERY difficult to change that without reinstall

AFAIK you can switch between uniprocessor and multiprocessor without too much fuss as long as you stick to the same type (e.g ACPI -> ACPI).

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Hacp
Looks like price/performance isn't what people like MARK strive for.

And what makes you say that ? I have all the performance I want for the money, 2 cores for the price of less than 2 systems total cost. Gaming only ? Then its the fastest way to go, but not necessarily best price/performance.

Edit: All my X2 boxes do F@H 24/7 on both cores, like the 820D, its the heater for my house right now....

Edit2: The post above me ? pwned BFG10K......

Are you the OP Gamer who only uses his computer for games???? Also, why aren't you correncting the FUD that the other guy is saying, about games being SMP enabled? Hes spreading a bunch of BS about it, and making people think that most games like BF2 do infact run SMP.

He is thinking about an FX-57. I don;t think price/performance is the consideration. Note the post above my last one to support my contention that they are better in games overall.

Thes question is, are they worth it, and I say yes, and have data to back that up. What is the problem with that ?