fastandfurious6
Senior member
- Jun 1, 2024
- 919
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- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,372
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And we have a forum for it. Take those topics to P&N please. Class war, for example, is far too broad an issue for tech.
Let's stick to discussing things with a direct impact on the hardware. Informing members too busy to keep track is value added. E.G. Tariffs have a direct impact. For instance: If I order ram from AliExpress, will I get a bill for the tariffs days or weeks later?
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
- 23,197
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Depends. Some shippers will send you a bill for tariff payments a few weeks after you get the item. Some will charge you extra upfront and take care of it at the port of entry.
bba-tcg
Golden Member
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,242
- 2,779
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And this is why I built my new system (my old one was from 2012), besides to be Win 11 compatible. The total cost was less about $800, less than the 48GB 8200 Cudimm RAM I have in it now. I also bought a 12gb 5070 and prices have since risen and 5090s are all gone!
Just wait until the proposed 100% tariff (tax) on non-American made ram kicks in on Samsung and Hynix.
Golgatha
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2003
- 12,446
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Back on topic. It's going to get worse for NAND. I guess 2-3x the normal price for NAND isn't as lucrative as 4-5x the normal price for DRAM. Maybe it'll all average out to 4x the normal price once this reallocation of resources goes full steam.
wccftech.com
Think SSDs Are Getting Expensive? NAND Makers Are Reportedly Cutting Production to Make Even More Money
NAND manufacturers are apparently looking to cut SSD production, aiming to reach profit margins similar to those of their DRAM lines.
wccftech.com
Steltek
Diamond Member
- Mar 29, 2001
- 3,450
- 1,191
- 136
Micron just purchased a memory fab from PSMC for 1.8 billion.
www.theregister.com
It may actually make things worse as this particular fab was producing legacy DRAM products, which will now stop. It isn't expected to begin producing anything at volume that MIGHT help the DRAM situation until 2nd quarter 2027 at best.
Statements from Micron and PSMC on the sale seem to be contradictory at best, so who knows if Micron won't just convert it to make more HBM.
Micron to boost DRAM output with $1.8bn chip fab buy
: Taiwan’s Powerchip sells legacy fab it opened just 19 months ago after spending $9.5 billion
It may actually make things worse as this particular fab was producing legacy DRAM products, which will now stop. It isn't expected to begin producing anything at volume that MIGHT help the DRAM situation until 2nd quarter 2027 at best.
Statements from Micron and PSMC on the sale seem to be contradictory at best, so who knows if Micron won't just convert it to make more HBM.
Hans Gruber
Platinum Member
- Dec 23, 2006
- 2,542
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Where is the US government oversight? They are disrupting commerce with these prices. That is not good for the world economy.
Steltek
Diamond Member
- Mar 29, 2001
- 3,450
- 1,191
- 136
Most of this is being manufactured outside the US by non-US based companies.
The billionaires are still making their money, so the current US administration has ...other things... it wants to waste its time on now (which is all I'll say regarding my opinions on the matter).
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I have an old but still nice set of 5.1 speakers. I like the sound they produce. It might not be the "best" sound, but I like it. Modern motherboards don't have 5.1 connectors anymore, so a sound card was the cheapest option. £35 is cheaper than a new set of speakers, and the audio chip is actually better than on the mobo, so it's also an upgrade.
- Sep 28, 2005
- 21,128
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No optical port?
I dont even recall the last time i connected speakers to any jack on my motherboard outside optical.
For my headphones im using a DAC + Headphone Amplifer, so it connects via USB. The only time i may actually use the jack if i want to play with spacial sounds and stage on games with headphones.
The speakers are good, but old, they don't have an optical port. I'd have to buy a DAC, or speakers, or a sound card. The sound card was the cheaper option, and less e- waste to keep my still decent speakers.
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,242
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The oversight was punted in favor of market manipulation by way of tariffs to enrich few and punish most under the guise of building parts in America and useless AI infrastructure.
Now even DD3 and 7.200k drives are starting to look attractive again. Just for giggles I installed Win 11 on a 5.400k notebook drive. Took about 2 minutes just to boot and about two hours to run updates while the system was unusable in the background. I forgot what those days were like.
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FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
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I've actually been happy buying used SSDs off Ebay. So long as they have long remaining life they are fine speed wise. I've no need for storage speed faster than that.Back on topic. It's going to get worse for NAND. I guess 2-3x the normal price for NAND isn't as lucrative as 4-5x the normal price for DRAM. Maybe it'll all average out to 4x the normal price once this reallocation of resources goes full steam.
Think SSDs Are Getting Expensive? NAND Makers Are Reportedly Cutting Production to Make Even More Money
NAND manufacturers are apparently looking to cut SSD production, aiming to reach profit margins similar to those of their DRAM lines.
I even have a 128gb I still use from 2012 that makes a good mule drive. Been through hell and back and not giving up.
This is so dumb. Some brands have started selling 'Gaming PC' WITHOUT ram and storage:
Golgatha
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2003
- 12,446
- 1,145
- 126
For cars, factories, and maybe even AI, ReRAM might be a nice technology to employ. It also has the nice attribute of not requiring rare earth metals.
Update update:
The RAM (2x 64GB 6000CL36) I bought for £522ea, that went up to £579 a couple of days after purchase, is £679 today.
The GPU (9070XT OC) I bought for £599, is £649 today.
The NVME (4TB 990Pro) was £289, and cheapest today is £429.
The bits I was most worried about, the RAM, SSD and GFX...
I paid ~£1930.
They are now ~£2440.
26% more.
It has been 10 days.
The RAM (2x 64GB 6000CL36) I bought for £522ea, that went up to £579 a couple of days after purchase, is £679 today.
The GPU (9070XT OC) I bought for £599, is £649 today.
The NVME (4TB 990Pro) was £289, and cheapest today is £429.
The bits I was most worried about, the RAM, SSD and GFX...
I paid ~£1930.
They are now ~£2440.
26% more.
It has been 10 days.
bba-tcg
Golden Member
China has a golden chance now to screw everyone with the rare earths exports block
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,242
- 2,779
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That was a very good video, thanks for posting. Not trying to make this thread too political but if you remember in the past we used to promote "free markets and competition". While this was not completely beneficial as the loss of US manufacturing had its downsides, it did promote competitive pricing. Around 2016 through today, justifiably or not, we were now told China is a competitor and may be spying, have unfair trade practices, etc. And while I highly doubt we will lift restrictions on Chinese memory and NAND chip technology mentioned in the video, but injection of Chinese memory and NAND supply into the US market would likely cause prices to go down.
With current US policy, competition will have to come from a new US competitor or foreign manufacturer building in the US. But frankly this all made worse with MICRON shutting down its consumer division. And while there is nothing stopping them from doing it, that put consumers in sticky situation for the foreseeable future as that is less competition.......less US competition......exactly what US policy is trying to promote! MICRON received $6 billion in CHIPs act money. Why are taxpayers (consumers) funding a company that is removing competition for consumer in favor of higher profits?
If anything MICRON could have just spun off its consumer division leaving that segment of competition in place. The new company could "deal" with the supposed problem of a lower margin business but consumers would benefit. While MICRON would still have to supply the new company with chips, I think taxpayers already footed that bill. But instead they just shut it down and we are left to deal with the consequences.
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If some memory manufacturer made a shop in the US they would produce memory for AI datacenters, probably exclusively.
China would fill that void the West leaves, and would give decent prices to lock the westerners down to return to the market
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