Is the confederate flag racist?

[eigen]

Alexander Stephens, the Vice-President of the Confederacy who explained-- "Our government's foundation and cornerstone rests upon the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man," ..."the immediate cause of the rupture and our present revolution." Robert Smith framer of the Confederate Constitution -- "We have dissolved the late Union chiefly because of the Negro quarrel."

 

[g8wayrebel]

quote:
Originally posted by: Slikkster

You know, I noticed when in the service that there's still this festering southern pride thing happening, even to this day. No one I know from the "North" ever gives the Civil War a second thought. But for southerners (who go back many generations), it still exists, like part of their culture was ripped from them, and it's a wound that never healed. Who would have thought that terms like "Yank" even existed anymore in today's America? But, they do.

I think it's really a sense of insecurity and lack of cultural self-worth at play. It's over. The so-called South lost. But we all won. It's important to remember whence you came. But it's also important to remember who you are. We're Americans. Be proud of that. For those reading this as citizens of the USA, if you want to display a flag, why not do something novel and display the American flag? That's who you are.





Not only do I agree with you, but I think we see the same in our"african american" citizens. That is part of the reason this is a topic of discussion today.

 

[FinalFantasy]

Originally posted by: g8wayrebel
quote:
Originally posted by: Slikkster

You know, I noticed when in the service that there's still this festering southern pride thing happening, even to this day. No one I know from the "North" ever gives the Civil War a second thought. But for southerners (who go back many generations), it still exists, like part of their culture was ripped from them, and it's a wound that never healed. Who would have thought that terms like "Yank" even existed anymore in today's America? But, they do.

I think it's really a sense of insecurity and lack of cultural self-worth at play. It's over. The so-called South lost. But we all won. It's important to remember whence you came. But it's also important to remember who you are. We're Americans. Be proud of that. For those reading this as citizens of the USA, if you want to display a flag, why not do something novel and display the American flag? That's who you are.





Not only do I agree with you, but I think we see the same in our"african american" citizens. That is part of the reason this is a topic of discussion today.

What do you mean by this? What do you "see the same in our "african american" citizens."? What actions do "they" display to make you say this?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I am part Cherokee. My ancestors and other native Americans suffered more than the black slaves did. The American Flag was a symbol of death and misery to them. They were raped, had their land taken, were herded into concentration camps for which there was no liberation. They were systemically eliminated. We succeeded where Hitler failed. No amount of "good" can erase that.

Yet knowing that I haven't any problem with the Flag. That was long ago, and my concern now is more current, yet still has nothing to do with the Flag.

Same with the Confederate one. It's all about how it's used now. If someone abuses a flag for an evil cause, it's that persons fault, not the flag. Let those who mean no harm display it, and those who do too, but give them the grief they merit.

1. I am black and have native American roots also...I know both histories of my people VERY well and I would have to strongly disagree with you when you say, "My ancestors and other native Americans suffered more than the black slaves did"...obviously you did not study during your black history courses or just failed to take any courses on it because that statement is just ignorant. Both races of people suffered enormous losses and were treated horribly; you really should not have made this point, it kills the rest of you are trying to say....constructive criticism.

2. "They were raped (so were black slaves), had their land taken (blacks were taken thousands of miles from their native land...they were taken to a whole new country), were herded into concentration camps for which there was no liberation (ever here of plantations or even slave ships?)." ...just a brief history lesson.

3. "Yet knowing that I haven't any problem with the Flag (the American flag). That was long ago, and my concern now is more current, yet still has nothing to do with the Flag." --umm...maybe because America is STILL, currently a country, you live in it and you do not see people, like these idiot hicks that ride around with a Confederate flag hithced to their 4x4, proping up American flags in the name of White supremacy over native Americans.....take notes people.

I am definitely, DEFINITELY not saying that native American did not suffer or black slaves suffered more, but there are plenty of native Americans that do not like to see the American flag erected and representing the US...they hate it. You comments just reiterate the fact that the average "American" is ignorant to the REAL black history and the way things work for blacks and other minorities...not your fault though, why should you even bother learning about stuff like that, you'll never have to deal with it right!? :thumbsup:

So I guess this weekend I'll throw on my Black Panther gear, stick a Black Power/Black Panther flag on my car and ride around town....but damn, the police wouldn't like that and knowing my local police I'd probably get pulled over and harrassed since I still get harrassed when I am dressed in my business attire.

...and people wonder why there's still racism today.......ignorance

Well this isn't a can you top this, but I missed the genocide portion of slavery.

Yeah both situations sucked, but the reason you don't hear as much about the American Indians problems is they were mostly wiped out. Dead people don't complain much.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I am part Cherokee. My ancestors and other native Americans suffered more than the black slaves did. The American Flag was a symbol of death and misery to them. They were raped, had their land taken, were herded into concentration camps for which there was no liberation. They were systemically eliminated. We succeeded where Hitler failed. No amount of "good" can erase that.

Yet knowing that I haven't any problem with the Flag. That was long ago, and my concern now is more current, yet still has nothing to do with the Flag.

Same with the Confederate one. It's all about how it's used now. If someone abuses a flag for an evil cause, it's that persons fault, not the flag. Let those who mean no harm display it, and those who do too, but give them the grief they merit.

1. I am black and have native American roots also...I know both histories of my people VERY well and I would have to strongly disagree with you when you say, "My ancestors and other native Americans suffered more than the black slaves did"...obviously you did not study during your black history courses or just failed to take any courses on it because that statement is just ignorant. Both races of people suffered enormous losses and were treated horribly; you really should not have made this point, it kills the rest of you are trying to say....constructive criticism.

2. "They were raped (so were black slaves), had their land taken (blacks were taken thousands of miles from their native land...they were taken to a whole new country), were herded into concentration camps for which there was no liberation (ever here of plantations or even slave ships?)." ...just a brief history lesson.

3. "Yet knowing that I haven't any problem with the Flag (the American flag). That was long ago, and my concern now is more current, yet still has nothing to do with the Flag." --umm...maybe because America is STILL, currently a country, you live in it and you do not see people, like these idiot hicks that ride around with a Confederate flag hithced to their 4x4, proping up American flags in the name of White supremacy over native Americans.....take notes people.

I am definitely, DEFINITELY not saying that native American did not suffer or black slaves suffered more, but there are plenty of native Americans that do not like to see the American flag erected and representing the US...they hate it. You comments just reiterate the fact that the average "American" is ignorant to the REAL black history and the way things work for blacks and other minorities...not your fault though, why should you even bother learning about stuff like that, you'll never have to deal with it right!? :thumbsup:

So I guess this weekend I'll throw on my Black Panther gear, stick a Black Power/Black Panther flag on my car and ride around town....but damn, the police wouldn't like that and knowing my local police I'd probably get pulled over and harrassed since I still get harrassed when I am dressed in my business attire.

...and people wonder why there's still racism today.......ignorance

Well this isn't a can you top this, but I missed the genocide portion of slavery.

Yeah both situations sucked, but the reason you don't hear as much about the American Indians problems is they were mostly wiped out. Dead people don't complain much.

This isn't a racist comment, but piggybacking on what Winston says above, I have seen numerous members of the black community (well beyond ATOT) arguing that what happened to their ancestors was the worst crime ever committed against a people in history, in complete ignorance of actual historical events.

The indigenous people of North America were wiped out and pushed west in a relatively short time, and whole cultures were destroyed in the process. I don't feel "white guilt" over that -- it's simply a historical fact as a consequence of a gross imbalance of power. It was horrific and should never be downplayed.

Ask the Incas about what happened when the Europeans came to town, bringing smallpox with them. Oh, wait, they're gone from disease. Ask Polish Jews what happened after the pogroms when the Nazis swept through. Oh, wait, they were murdered by the millions along with other European Jews. Ask the Soviet peasants on their farms what Stalin's policies did to them. Wait, sorry, they died from starvation and disease to the tune of over 20 million.

What's my point? Keep slavery in perspective. While certainly a repugnant period in US history, slavery goes back many, many centuries prior to what happened in the US. While some would argue that dying is superior to living in chains, entire civilizations and races were wiped out without ever having a chance to decide for themselves.

 

[mitaiwan82]

voted No - not racist and I am a minority...but should be No - not racist and I am a minority but I'm not black

 

[torpid]

The question is not the right one to ask. The flag is not racist, but it evokes feelings of racism in people, even when it is not always the intended statement. I am still undecided on this issue as a whole, but I voted for not racist to the question asked because it was plainly obvious that the flag itself is not a racist symbol.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
In and of itself no. However, it's usually sported by redneck hillbillies who yearn for the good ole days of slavery and killin' Yankees.

Yes because you know EXACTLY what they yearn for. :roll:

Why would they "yearn" for something that was way before their time? Your argument is retarded.

 

[CyraKrin]

I'm just posting because on the vote you had "the south will rise again".. so I turned 180 degrees from my desk and took this.


I'm not racist, and I'm not a redneck, and thats a canadian flag next to it.