With more and more people going to college, is a college degree really worth that much these days? Coupled with the current economy, it seems to me that companies are becoming entirely unrealistic in their requirements for entry level positions for new grads. What was once viewed as an edge, is now a misnomer--a college degree is now a requirement. I think you could find it comparable to what a high school degree was worth 7-8 years ago. I'm just speaking from personal experience, in my struggles after obtaining a Bachelor's Degree. What are your opinions on the worth of a college degree?
-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Is the College Degree watered down?
- Thread starter Reckoner
- Start date
Dissipate
Diamond Member
Hmm. I don't know much about that field. Tell me more about it.
However, I think that a college degree is definately worth it. My sister and her fiance both went to NYU. My sister got a degree in journalism and her fiance got a degree in English. They now both work at Vogue magazine in NYC. There is no way they could have gotten their jobs without a degree even though my sister had a connection in landing her job there.
As an engineer I'm gong to have to say no right now. I sweat nearly ever night with the amount of work I have. I have to study so hard to make sure I stay ahead of others and absorb is better. Today I had to turn in two homeworks, and am functioning on less than four hours of work. 1/2 the time the HW isn't related to lectures and you have to learn and find out more. Add to the fact you have bi weekly projects due and it doesn't make life any easier. this is also true for my ChemE friend who routinely stays up till 3AM just doing HW. My friend who is a math major also spends quite a bit of time (I would say 85% of what we do) doing work. Its pretty insane, and all of us are doing three classes +work (Though the ChemE isn't doing any work/reserach, he is taking a fourth class) this quarter.
I think for the sciences in general...it isn't watered down. There is just so much material, and so much to learn, and so many theories, and so many crappy teachers 😉 that it isn't easy.
I don't know about other majors, but I can say with confidence from my close friends and my peers in general that Engineering and Science are nowhere near cake or a walk in the park.
I think for the sciences in general...it isn't watered down. There is just so much material, and so much to learn, and so many theories, and so many crappy teachers 😉 that it isn't easy.
I don't know about other majors, but I can say with confidence from my close friends and my peers in general that Engineering and Science are nowhere near cake or a walk in the park.
Dissipate
Diamond Member
I disagree that it isn't worth it. Engineering has some good jobs out there. Just think, you will be starting off at a good salary right out of college. Just ask Stunt.
I do agree that it isn't easy. I'm a Math-C.S. major myself, and I know exactly what you are talking about with those crazy profs. 🙂
However, it does seem like it is easy for some people. I've heard of some people at my university who practically just sailed through electrical engineering. Everyone hates those guys. :laugh:
Starbuck1975
Lifer
A college degree is a necessary stepping stone for any career path...quite honestly, I think contemporary college grads have some unrealistic expectations as to what their educations entitle them to...having 4 years of college in and of itself is not going to place you in the six figures club fresh out of college.
Similarly, education does not end with college...you have to pursue opportunities for professional and personal growth as they arise...whether they be company sponsored training activities, mentorship opportunities or the pursuit of grad school education.
There is no one path, and unfortunately the system is not always fair...sometimes who you know is as important as what you know.
An extension of this is the necessity of pursuing opportunities to apply classroom knowledge in a real world environment...most schools have a series of companies that maintain a recruiting relationship with...leveraging these resources and the alumni network for your respective school is always a good start.
Unfortunately, America does not place a premium on engineering, and most engineers will dedicate a lifetime of hard work for wages that do not seem comperable to the skills they offer...all I can say is find something you enjoy doing, latch onto it, and the money will come later...if you are passionate about your work, others will notice, and it often opens the door to other opportunities.
Similarly, education does not end with college...you have to pursue opportunities for professional and personal growth as they arise...whether they be company sponsored training activities, mentorship opportunities or the pursuit of grad school education.
There is no one path, and unfortunately the system is not always fair...sometimes who you know is as important as what you know.
An extension of this is the necessity of pursuing opportunities to apply classroom knowledge in a real world environment...most schools have a series of companies that maintain a recruiting relationship with...leveraging these resources and the alumni network for your respective school is always a good start.
Unfortunately, America does not place a premium on engineering, and most engineers will dedicate a lifetime of hard work for wages that do not seem comperable to the skills they offer...all I can say is find something you enjoy doing, latch onto it, and the money will come later...if you are passionate about your work, others will notice, and it often opens the door to other opportunities.
CycloWizard
Lifer
The answer is: it depends. What field do you want to get into?
More and more fields require more and more specialized knowledge, even at the entry level. Thus, the need for people with college degrees is increasing, as the college education gives you the basis for this specialized knowledge. I would fully expect this trend to continue, at least until our pre-college education system is worth anything and gives people a real knowledge base. Even then, the standards will continue to rise as technology becomes a more integrated part of society.
More and more fields require more and more specialized knowledge, even at the entry level. Thus, the need for people with college degrees is increasing, as the college education gives you the basis for this specialized knowledge. I would fully expect this trend to continue, at least until our pre-college education system is worth anything and gives people a real knowledge base. Even then, the standards will continue to rise as technology becomes a more integrated part of society.
No no no! Lol I meant "NO it isn't watered down" 😉 Sorry if i was ambiguos, you know that 4 hour of sleep thing since tuesday 😉
It is entirely worth it, but you bring up a good point.
My salary will start nice and high (it better! 😉 ) but I've noticed that engineers dont make as much money. What makes the "real money" in today's world? It isn't the thousands of engineers making 50-80k a year. It is the business people pulling 150-300k easy for their jobs. Take it further and be a stockholder with a big enough chunk to get a seat at the board meetings. You sit there on a board and say "you are fired" when you don't like how the CEO is doing.
Engineers peak fast, but we generally don't get as high as the other majors. Other people start lower, but they have a higher peak than we do.
Personally, you do engineering because you LIKE it, you do it because you LOVE it.
I HAAATTEEE it right now, but hopefully ten years when I'm rolling in cash (there are always engineers who go a step above what they need to and roll in cash 😉 I think a lot of it has to do with whether or not they actually really learned...i know too many people just trying to get through rather than pause and say "What Am I really learning"~ its why i'm doing 5 years vs 4...I can do it, I just think I would remember nothing 😉), and i'm rolling in it because I created a medical device, particpated in drug development, provided a prosthetic, or made models to simulate surgery that helped people, THEN I will get that satisfacation I'm looking for and say that it was all worth it 😉
Now all I have to do is get the grades, and somehow prove this to companies 😉
Cycolwizard hit it right on the head. College degree doesn't go all that far. Technology is proceeding so fast, the lines between engineering disciplines are being blurred so much, the lines between sciences are being blurred...that is is hard to get a good focus in just four years. I would say getting an engineering degree just helps you think like a scientist. If you really want to learn about something and go in depth and truly be an expert...you need to go to gradschool because that gives you the chance that a regular 4 year B.S. doesn't provide.
But I do think some degrees are watered down. Stuff like Sociology is ridiculous. I know people who finished it their first quarter of their THIRD YEAR, and are now taking on a minor because they aren't in a rush to leave.
LumbergTech
Diamond Member
would you say the college degree is watered down, or not having one is a lot worse and you have to compete more even if you do
PrinceofWands
Lifer
I see it both ways. Plenty of people do fine with no college, while others can't make ends meet with incredible levels of education. My brother is VP of a large and growing bank and has no college, while my nephew makes six figures a month self-employed. Conversely, I have a friend with two masters and two bachelors who had to take odd jobs for nearly 3 years before he could find a position. But I also know people who have no college and live far below the poverty line, unable to find any meaningful employment, and some who were hired within weeks of graduating college and have been happy ever since.
I think it's a case by case thing.
I think it's a case by case thing.
Possible, but also having a degree, 15 years plus experience in a field and fighting with 20 others with similar experience for an entry level $12/hr job doesn't help. Most technical fields are saturated with overqualified people, so you could say degrees are watered down or the job market sucks, depending on whether you are employed in your field or not.
I think it really depends on what kind of degree you get. History, Liberal arts, ancient cultures will probably end up being viewed as not applying to most jobs out there.
But get a degree in Engineering, CS, MIS, Pharmecy, Law, or Medicine and you will see it isnt as watered down as you think.
I do agree however that with so many people getting degrees the playing field is being leveled and thus you can become just another slob on the list of people with degrees when it comes time to get a job right out of school. The first job is the hardest IMO. Once you get a few years of experience then you are in a much better position.
But get a degree in Engineering, CS, MIS, Pharmecy, Law, or Medicine and you will see it isnt as watered down as you think.
I do agree however that with so many people getting degrees the playing field is being leveled and thus you can become just another slob on the list of people with degrees when it comes time to get a job right out of school. The first job is the hardest IMO. Once you get a few years of experience then you are in a much better position.
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
Very good post. :beer:
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
A college degree is definitely not worth what it used to be. It's simply a matter of supply and demand. Supply has increased much more than demand. About 30% of students are entering college nowadays (not sure about how many actually graduate) but only 18% of jobs require a college degree. Back in the 1950s, only about 5% of the population got a degree so there was a big shortage of educated workers back then. Back in those days and in the centuries before, even getting a degree in poetry could nearly guarantee you a good paying job in the business world.
I would say college degree is a requirement for most of the jobs out there, unless the job is pure labor or in specific area that requires non-degreed skills such as auto-mechanic, hair cut and such.
Many graduates think they can get a job easily once they have a degree. That's not the case. Even though college degree is required in many jobs, it is not the only requirement. Companies look for many things other than a degree when they make hiring decision.
The best thing you can have in addition to your degree is actual working experience in the industry you want to be in. Do internship, paid or unpaid, if possible. Get professional certification, they are not that hard. All that differentiate you from all the college grads out there, and it shows you understand what the companies need.
In addition, your attitude during interviews, showing you are a team player, showing you care about your client's priority...etc, everything count.
What companies need are someone who can get the job done, not someone who have a piece of paper. That piece of paper is just what companies use to weed out applications they don't want to waste their time on.
Many graduates think they can get a job easily once they have a degree. That's not the case. Even though college degree is required in many jobs, it is not the only requirement. Companies look for many things other than a degree when they make hiring decision.
The best thing you can have in addition to your degree is actual working experience in the industry you want to be in. Do internship, paid or unpaid, if possible. Get professional certification, they are not that hard. All that differentiate you from all the college grads out there, and it shows you understand what the companies need.
In addition, your attitude during interviews, showing you are a team player, showing you care about your client's priority...etc, everything count.
What companies need are someone who can get the job done, not someone who have a piece of paper. That piece of paper is just what companies use to weed out applications they don't want to waste their time on.
At the same time, though, you have to consider the state of the public education system (which is what the majority of Americans use). In my school district, there is a great deal of emphasis on promoting the failing kids to the next grade, partially because of the concept of "social promotions" (the idea that being held back is a stigma and is damaging to the kid's psyche or something), but also for shee purposes of practicality--if they held back every kid they should, then there would be no space. I'm not saying that a high school degree is completely worthless, but at the same time, there is a much higher degree of accountability in a BA or BS than a High School Diploma. There were people at my high school that graduated with a 0.5 GPA. I really don't think that any College or University would allow that to happen.
At the same time, though, I do agree that just having a BA or a BS doesn't make you any more or less intelligent or worthwhile than another person, nor is it an accurate indicator of your ability to do work. For example, I am a sophmore Anthropology major. It is about the third week of classes. I am already behind about 600-some pages in reading. Am I ever going to do it? Probably not. Do I really need to do it? Honestly, it would probably be a good thing if I did, but at the same time, the lectures are pretty detailed, so I'll probably do pretty well in the class, so therefore there's no real need to do the reading.
Case in point: my girlfriend's father never finished college. He now works for IBM as a computer trouble-shooter of some sort, remotely managing and diagnosing problems with several systems. Now, he did go back and get certified for this, but still, he has a high school degree. Clearly, he has done very well, especially in comparison to most other people I know who do not have a college degree.
I think that from a standpoint of getting a job, a college degree is helpful, but I think people (namely employers) need to start recognizing that it is not 100% essential. There are plenty of smart people who are, for whatever reason, unwilling/unable to get a college degree, but if they are trained properly, can do any job just as well as some guy with a BA or a BS. At the same time, I think that a lot of people these days are more concerned about getting a job *after* college than they are about learning. I personally am of the opinion that, if you decide to go to college, you should just major in whatever interests you most and learn as much as you can about it, and worry about getting a job later.
And for the record, the reason I am behind in my reading is not because it is uninteresting to me, but because I lack the mental discipline required to get it done. Now, for example, I should be reading for class tomorrow, but instead, I'm posting to this forum.
At the same time, though, I do agree that just having a BA or a BS doesn't make you any more or less intelligent or worthwhile than another person, nor is it an accurate indicator of your ability to do work. For example, I am a sophmore Anthropology major. It is about the third week of classes. I am already behind about 600-some pages in reading. Am I ever going to do it? Probably not. Do I really need to do it? Honestly, it would probably be a good thing if I did, but at the same time, the lectures are pretty detailed, so I'll probably do pretty well in the class, so therefore there's no real need to do the reading.
Case in point: my girlfriend's father never finished college. He now works for IBM as a computer trouble-shooter of some sort, remotely managing and diagnosing problems with several systems. Now, he did go back and get certified for this, but still, he has a high school degree. Clearly, he has done very well, especially in comparison to most other people I know who do not have a college degree.
I think that from a standpoint of getting a job, a college degree is helpful, but I think people (namely employers) need to start recognizing that it is not 100% essential. There are plenty of smart people who are, for whatever reason, unwilling/unable to get a college degree, but if they are trained properly, can do any job just as well as some guy with a BA or a BS. At the same time, I think that a lot of people these days are more concerned about getting a job *after* college than they are about learning. I personally am of the opinion that, if you decide to go to college, you should just major in whatever interests you most and learn as much as you can about it, and worry about getting a job later.
And for the record, the reason I am behind in my reading is not because it is uninteresting to me, but because I lack the mental discipline required to get it done. Now, for example, I should be reading for class tomorrow, but instead, I'm posting to this forum.
And this here is one of the reasons I feel a college education IS important. As an employer, you want employees who HAVE the mental discipline to get the job done on time. Getting through a challenging educational process in a reasonable amount of time gives some indication of how you'll perform in the real world. Class projects that have some relationship to the real world job you aspire to help as well. So does an internship in your field of study during your college years.
I have a BS and an MS in Electrical Engineering and if I were a hiring manager (I've been one before), extended completion times and marginal grade point averages would not bode well for a prospective candidate. Sounds harsh, but that's the way I see it.
By the way, jhmoore, I don't mean to pick on you.
SophalotJack
Banned
In my opinion, a college degree is watered down but necessary..
Not all of them, though. Fields that involve the sciences at a high level are well worth going to college for.
But when I hear someone talking about how they don't think a college degree means much of anything, it's usually in regards to the "fly-by for my parents' money" degrees. Political science, history and various other vague degrees.
Not all of them, though. Fields that involve the sciences at a high level are well worth going to college for.
But when I hear someone talking about how they don't think a college degree means much of anything, it's usually in regards to the "fly-by for my parents' money" degrees. Political science, history and various other vague degrees.
I wouldn't say college degrees are "watered down", the difference is that a lot more people have some sort of degree than they used to. Back in my parents' day (they're mid 50's now), having a college degree in almost any field meant you had a good chance of finding a good job you really wanted. It's not that the degree is watered down now, it's that so many more people are going to college in general, so just having a basic liberal arts degree doesn't put you very far ahead of everyone else. But I think engineering and science type degrees are as useful as they have ever been.
0marTheZealot
Golden Member
There ya go. Sh!t degree = Sh!t job.
Engineering/Science degrees are most definately not watered down.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
A degree is simply an indication of some level of learning in an academic field. The level of information has significantly changed in some areas. Accounting has not but has almost always demanded a degree for work in Public Accounting Firms. Engineers as well need to pass a pretty difficult test to be licensed and this is college learned mostly. The advanced degrees have been somewhat 'watered down' and mainly because the information 'learned' in that 60 or so units has moved down and has become more or less an in depth study of the subject but some industries expect that level for a higher position. Doctoral studies have always demanded research but now-a-days the 'Orals' focus more on the myopia of the dissertation than the broader aspects of displaying an understanding at a very high level over a less defined area. IMO
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
