Question Is the 10850k right for me?

[TechGuy75]

Hi guys.

Overview:

I am still trying to put together my build and all I can rely on are reviews and youtube videos, and your comments ofcourse I can probably build a more barebones machine that will fit my needs but I want to treat myself a little and splurge a little. Since I build machines roughly once a decade or little less and therefore keep them for many years.

So, I think I got a pretty good deal on the 10850k, at $389 And bought it. I want to try and do a pretty high end intel build, but I am not sure if it is possible given my situation. I have seen many reviews on this chip and I am aware that it runs hotter and needs good cooling.

Summary:

• I am going to be running it in a Fractal Design define r5 case. It has 1 x 140 mm case fan in the front of the case pulling the cool air in and 1 x 140mm case fan in the rear exhausting heat out the back. I can add 1 more 140mm case fan in the front if I need to. Thats about all the case cooling I can do, since I need to put this case in a tower enclosure in my desk(hopefully you know what I mean). The enclosure in my desk allows for the front and back of the case to be completely exposed. The top, bottom, and sides are blocked by the desk enclosure.
• I plan on doing a Noctua nh-d15 air cooler. I don’t want to do an aio and definitely not a custom water loop.
• given this cooling situation that I describe above, would I be able to run this chip at a proper temperature at stock settings without thermal throttling? Would I lose performance, even at stock speeds, due to the heat , making it pointless to run this chip?
• If stock settings are going to be ok, can I overclock at all given my setup? Ideally I would like to overclock some taking the base clock speed of all cores from 3.6 stock to a max of 4.5. Possible given my setup? If not how much oc is possible?
• If even stock cooling is not possible properly and this whole deal is not possible, then does it make sense to fall back to a 3900x? I hear this runs significantly cooler at stock and is very comparable to a 10850k.
• i dont know the exact gpu I am running. Probably anything from a 1660 super to a max of a 2060 super. 1 gpu.
• my first preference would be to do an intel build but if that is not really realistic, then I would like to cancel my order as soon as possible.

My proposed build:

• CPU = 10850k or 3900x
• CPU cooling = Noctua nh-d15(if 10850k for sure) or better? For the 3900x I will use the wraith prism for a start. If that starts to give me problem then I would look for an after market cooler.
• MOBO = not sure yet. Something good in the $200 to $300 range. X570 or z490.
• boot drive = wd sn750 1tb nvme pcie
• psu = seasonic gx-850
• case = fractal design define r5
• gpu = 1660 super or 2060. If I need something more powerful, I will give it some thought. Not saying no. Kind of want to settle on the cpu and mobo for now.
• memory = 32 gb ddr4 3600
• os = windows 10 pro
• monitor = 32” 4k 60hz

My uses:

• Office work; word, pp, excel, outlook
• several browser tabs
• watching youtube videos
• visual studio .net programing and compiling. This app has grown large and can take some resources. Other web programming outside of .net.
• Running an instance of sql server using ssms. Also possibly running an instance of Oracle.
• running a linux install in VM
• Encoding of my music from cd to flac, mp3 etc
• Retro gaming of older titles from Blizzard, some modern rpg games, overwatch. Maybe room to grow of my gaming needs?

Please help! Thanks

 

[jones377]

I have an old Define R4 and now using a Define 7. These cases are not built for airflow but rather noise reduction unless you keep the front open which kinda defeats the purpose of the Define series. UNLESS you're using a top mounted AIO, but these cases aren't the best for that either because the clearance to motherboard components like DRAM and VRM can be tricky depending on which combination of AIO/MB you're using. Using a top mounted AIO also means you get higher noise which again defeats the purpose of the case. I would not expect the best OC results using these cases but it might still work.

In short I would either skip overclocking or live with less than stellar results or go for a different case. I love my Define 7 but I knew the limitations going in.

 

[ondma]

If possible, I would wait for Rocket Lake from Intel and for Zen 3 (5xxx) series to have better availability. Not sure you need a top of the line processor either.

 

[TechGuy75]

Can you guys tell me this. At stock settings at what temperature does the 10850k thermal throttle and I lose performance?

 

[UsandThem]

I thought you were buying a 3900X and X570 Tomahawk? So that thread was a hypothetical just like this one still is?

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/should-i-upgrade-my-x570-tomahawk-mobo.2589186/

 

[Zucker2k]

Can you guys tell me this. At stock settings at what temperature does the 10850k thermal throttle and I lose performance?

I believe somewhere around 100c. With the cooler you plan to use, you could easily attain that 4.5GHz all core overclock without much increase in voltage settings. However, you'd need a case with good to great airflow.

 

[TechGuy75]

I thought you were buying a 3900X and X570 Tomahawk? So that thread was a hypothetical just like this one still is?

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/should-i-upgrade-my-x570-tomahawk-mobo.2589186/

No. When I posted this thread I didn't know what I was going to do between the 10850k vs 3900x. I did decide on the 3900x a day or so ago, due to what I believe will be my cooling limitations. The question on the temps at which the 10850k thermal throttles is more for my curioisty, as I heard some different things in my course of research.

As for the tomahawk, I have not made a final decision. Thats why I posted the thread you referenced. I am getting feedback on what people think and comparing the tomahawk with some more expensive boards to see if it is really worth it for me to change.

 

[TechGuy75]

If possible, I would wait for Rocket Lake from Intel and for Zen 3 (5xxx) series to have better availability. Not sure you need a top of the line processor either.

unfortunately, I cannot wait. I have a couple of old machines, one of which is acting flakey and I need to build a new one now for work purposes. You are probably right, I probably don't need a top of the line processor, but I have a chance to splurge, so I am going for it.

 

[Furious_Styles]

unfortunately, I cannot wait. I have a couple of old machines, one of which is acting flakey and I need to build a new one now for work purposes. You are probably right, I probably don't need a top of the line processor, but I have a chance to splurge, so I am going for it.

I think it's a mistake to go intel, AMD is the better platform with PCI-e 4.0. You also mostly are using it for production/work which is another AMD strength.

 

[amrnuke]

Can you guys tell me this. At stock settings at what temperature does the 10850k thermal throttle and I lose performance?

It starts to throttle at ~85C with a more firm 95C "limit" though even on an open bench, with a 2 kg copper air cooler, Anandtech was able to hit a 102C CPU temp recording. With an AIO Techpowerup could hit 5.2 GHz all-core (and they promptly said "Definitely not worth it.").

Every chip is going to be limited by something. In the case of the 10850K it seems that its limit is thermal, and not anything else weird. With your limited cooling, you are going to thermally throttle at times, you're going to be limited in overclocking, and a 3900X with less heat output due to lower power consumption may end up actually performing better in VS compiling in your specific setup because of the cooling limitations you have.

The only person who can answer this is you. With adequate cooling, the 10850K can beat the 3900X in compiling and is likely to be "snappier" in Office and will be the better gaming chip if you upgrade your GPU at some point. But with thermal limitations like yours, no clear answer can be given.

 

[krumme]

The price/perf of the 10850 is super but the power usage and thermals and noise will be a pain for years to come in a normal setup in a normal case like the define even with a nh15. Its not a professional product imo. 10700 is the absolute limit and even a fringe case imo. I dont get why Intel does this toaster show, i thought we were past it.
What is your current build?
How sensitive are you to noise? (If you are not sensitive and dont tax all cores much it might be fine)
Is there any benchmark in Anand new review that you can relate to?
What is the time plan and budget?

 

[LikeLinus]

PCI-e 4.0

Purely out of curiosity, why is PCIe 4.0 important? Most GPUs only need 8-16x lanes (PCIe 8x for speed). Nothing we have can saturate the 4.0 16x, but a lot of people talk about it. Just curious.

 

[scannall]

Purely out of curiosity, why is PCIe 4.0 important? Most GPUs only need 8-16x lanes (PCIe 8x for speed). Nothing we have can saturate the 4.0 16x, but a lot of people talk about it. Just curious.

Storage. PCIe4 SSD's are so much faster.

 

[LikeLinus]

Storage. PCIe4 SSD's are so much faster.

Does this happen outside of benchmarks? I know benchmarks say that 5000 is faster than 3500, but are there any real benefits to prove the cost vs. performance?

People make these statements based on synthetic benchmarks. Just curious what the real world benefits is.

 

[tamz_msc]

Does this happen outside of benchmarks? I know benchmarks say that 5000 is faster than 3500, but are there any real benefits to prove the cost vs. performance?

People make these statements based on synthetic benchmarks. Just curious what the real world benefits is.

There is no discernible difference between PCIe 4 and PCIe 3 storage for your average consumer workloads, especially the type described by the OP. Most consumer workloads are low QD where there is not much of a difference between PCIe or even SATA in terms of the time it takes to complete the task. You will see some difference when using your NVMe drive as a scratch disk but that usage is far from what the OP intends to do.

 

[Shmee]

That is a pretty good price for a 10850k. I would probably go for it over a 3900X at current time, unless you plan on getting a Ryzen 5000 upgrade later. Also, the 10850k has a turbo of 5.2 GHz, so with decent cooling, you don't really need to OC. You could try though...FYI no stock cooler is included.

I am a bit confused though, are you getting both systems? Or still trying to decide between AMD and Intel here?

 

[TechGuy75]

You also mostly are using it for production/work which is another AMD strength.

This seems to be the concensus, which I also found in my research.

 

[TechGuy75]

That is a pretty good price for a 10850k. I would probably go for it over a 3900X at current time, unless you plan on getting a Ryzen 5000 upgrade later. Also, the 10850k has a turbo of 5.2 GHz, so with decent cooling, you don't really need to OC. You could try though...FYI no stock cooler is included.

I am a bit confused though, are you getting both systems? Or still trying to decide between AMD and Intel here?

Overclocking is out and I am only talking about stock settings. yes, i like the price and the 10850k is available and I would have gone with it, however all my research shows me that the thermals would most likely be my major restrictive factor, unless you can convince me or provide me your experience otherwise. As mentioned I have a define r4 case where the most cooling I can do is 2x140mm front case fans to pull in the cold air and 1 x 140mm rear case fan to exhaust the heat. For the cpu, the best I can do is a noctua ndh15 or bequite dark rock 4 or some other large air cooler . The whole case is in a desk enclosure with the front and back of the enclosure open. I read a ton of reviews and watched videos and my impression is that this would not be enough cooling for my situation with a 10850k, so I decided on the 3900x(no upgrade to 5 series), but I dont have it in my hands yet. Overclocking is out and I am only talking about stock settings. I am only doing one build. Even if I could do a case with a whole bunch of fans, I wouldn’t like that since I like silent computing. I willing to go as far as the colling solution I mention above Or something similar To compromise the cooling and silence a bit.

what do you think? I don’t think a 10850k would work in this situation would it?

 

[Shmee]

I would think the 10850k would still work, especially with a great cooler like the D15, but it also depends on how everything is in the room it is in, with airflow and temps and such. Other members have a point that the ryzen 9s are great for productivity. If I were you I would still consider a CPU upgrade later, assuming reasonable prices and availability later on.

 

[tamz_msc]

Overclocking is out and I am only talking about stock settings. yes, i like the price and the 10850k is available and I would have gone with it, however all my research shows me that the thermals would most likely be my major restrictive factor, unless you can convince me or provide me your experience otherwise. As mentioned I have a define r4 case where the most cooling I can do is 2x140mm front case fans to pull in the cold air and 1 x 140mm rear case fan to exhaust the heat. For the cpu, the best I can do is a noctua ndh15 or bequite dark rock 4 or some other large air cooler . The whole case is in a desk enclosure with the front and back of the enclosure open. I read a ton of reviews and watched videos and my impression is that this would not be enough cooling for my situation with a 10850k, so I decided on the 3900x(no upgrade to 5 series), but I dont have it in my hands yet. Overclocking is out and I am only talking about stock settings. I am only doing one build. Even if I could do a case with a whole bunch of fans, I wouldn’t like that since I like silent computing. I willing to go as far as the colling solution I mention above Or something similar To compromise the cooling and silence a bit.

what do you think? I don’t think a 10850k would work in this situation would it?

What kind of temperatures do you think you'll be comfortable with? Based on limited research, the 10850K will reach mid 80°C in Prime95 with an NH d15, which is fine IMO.

 

[richierich1212]

Here’s Anandtech’s own review of the 10850K, under the power consumption section:

Intel Core i9-10850K Review: The Real Intel Flagship

www.anandtech.com

Ian Cutress said, “The only gripe is going to be cooling, as we used an open test bed and arguably the best air cooler on the market, and users building into a case will need something similarly substantial, probably of the liquid cooling variety.”

They used a TRUE Copper for cooling their 10850K for testing.

 

[amrnuke]

Here’s Anandtech’s own review of the 10850K, under the power consumption section:

Intel Core i9-10850K Review: The Real Intel Flagship

www.anandtech.com

Ian Cutress said, “The only gripe is going to be cooling, as we used an open test bed and arguably the best air cooler on the market, and users building into a case will need something similarly substantial, probably of the liquid cooling variety.”

They used a TRUE Copper for cooling their 10850K for testing.

Certainly he will throttle in a limited air flow situation like his, on heavily multithreaded loads like compiling.

However, it may very well be that the 10850K is the better choice because 1) it's available easily, 2) it is on-par in most other tasks, and 3) it's really cheap at that price for what you're getting.

My primary worry is that you will not be able to utilize all of what you're buying, even at stock, with that type of limited airflow... in which case it may make more sense to get something that is roughly equivalent, cheaper, and draws less power (and generates less heat).

 

[TechGuy75]

I have an old Define R4 and now using a Define 7. These cases are not built for airflow but rather noise reduction unless you keep the front open which kinda defeats the purpose of the Define series. UNLESS you're using a top mounted AIO, but these cases aren't the best for that either because the clearance to motherboard components like DRAM and VRM can be tricky depending on which combination of AIO/MB you're using. Using a top mounted AIO also means you get higher noise which again defeats the purpose of the case. I would not expect the best OC results using these cases but it might still work.

In short I would either skip overclocking or live with less than stellar results or go for a different case. I love my Define 7 but I knew the limitations going in.

You brought up a very good point that I didn’t consider with the define case. Got to say that I really love the case for the silence. I am ok with not overclocking and just going stock. If I can do the built in overclocking that comes with the mobo, that would be cool, but if not I can compromise and go stock. I had a gaming case many years ago and I hated it since it was so loud. Can I ask though, what makes it so bad for air flow but other cases better? It has a pretty standard layout inside.

 

[TechGuy75]

I would think the 10850k would still work, especially with a great cooler like the D15, but it also depends on how everything is in the room it is in, with airflow and temps and such. Other members have a point that the ryzen 9s are great for productivity. If I were you I would still consider a CPU upgrade later, assuming reasonable prices and availability later on.

Really, you think it is viable for me? I already explained my case and cooling restriction. Not sure what other info to include. Whatever cpu I do now I just want to stick with probably for the life of the build And not tinker to much with it since it is my daily work machine. Besides, with the power of these cpus, I think I will be good for a long time.

 

[TechGuy75]

What kind of temperatures do you think you'll be comfortable with? Based on limited research, the 10850K will reach mid 80°C in Prime95 with an NH d15, which is fine IMO.

I dont think there is a specific temperature. I just don’t want to thermal throttle and have the chip die prematurely due to excessive heat.