Is teflon a carcinogen?

[DivideBYZero]

When injected directly into the brain, yes.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Teflon was discovered accidentally as a by product derived from a nerve agent used in chemical warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrafluoroethylene

No it wasn't

PTFE was accidentally invented by Roy Plunkett of Kinetic Chemicals in 1938. While Plunkett was attempting to make a new CFC refrigerant, the perfluorethylene polymerized in its pressurized storage container, with the iron from the inside of the container acting as a catalyst. Kinetic Chemicals patented it in 1941 and registered the Teflon trademark in 1945.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

 

[Ronstang]

All organic compounds are carcinogens. As well as all polymers, naturally occurring compounds, etc. You are not even safe with water.

It's all a matter or the exposure over time. You are right, you can kill yourself by drinking too much water.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Teflon used to mean PTFE, however, Dupont now uses the Teflon brand as a catch-all for any of their fluoropolymer resins (FEP, PTFE, ETFE, PFA, etc). Most non-stick cookware labeled Teflon is most likely using PFA (perfluoroalkoxy co-polymer)

The coating on non-stick cookware is made from a liquid "paint" which contains PTFE (polytetrafluoroethlyene) fluoropolymer and sometimes other fluoropolymers.

Straight from Dupont

Although you are correct there is now the Dupont "Teflon" family brand... such as Teflon AF, FEP, NXT and a bunch more.

 

[Rubycon]

Its too late for me to use google to sound smart. At what temperature does ptfe start to give off dangerous chemicals?

You know what how about YOU google that!

 

[nerp]

OK, listen folks. Teflon paranoia is rooted in the 60s and 70s (or a little earlier). Some early uses weren't so nicely manufactured. Some early products tended to shed particles and emit fumes when in use. I don't know the exact history, but there was a bit of a scare back in the day because of these crappy products. As a result, there is a prevailing fear that makes the rounds regularly revolving around teflon degradation while cooking. This is not really a concern anymore since modern applications of teflon are much better than the earliest products.

 

[PottedMeat]

PTFE was accidentally invented by Roy Plunkett of Kinetic Chemicals in 1938. While Plunkett was attempting to make a new CFC refrigerant, the perfluorethylene polymerized in its pressurized storage container, with the iron from the inside of the container acting as a catalyst. Kinetic Chemicals patented it in 1941[1] and registered the Teflon trademark in 1945.[2][3]

Teflon was discovered accidentally as a by product derived from a nerve agent used in chemical warfare.

even if it was, so what?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

You know what how about YOU google that!

Or read my post...



:'(

 

[Fritzo]

PTFE is probably one of the most least reactive resins in existence. It's used for a non stick coating. What's dangerous are the by-products of decomposition of PTFE at high temperatures - in excess of what the grille surfaces should see in normal cooking. This is why its unwise to put PTFE treated parts (like baking pans) in a self cleaning oven! On a clean cycle the oven can exceed 900 degrees Fahrenheit which can cause the release of harmful byproducts of decomposition of PTFE coatings. PTFE stands for polytetrafluroethylene. Teflon is the DuPont trade name.

OK then smarty pants---if it's so "non stick" then what makes it stick to the pan?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

most least reactive

lol

OK then smarty pants---if it's so "non stick" then what makes it stick to the pan?

Magic :duh:

It isn't chemically bonded to the pan, merely held in place due to pits in the surface of the pan.

 

[PottedMeat]

pretty cool - how to bond teflon sheet to a material ( i dont think it's how they do pans, but still pretty cool )

http://www.actontech.com/fluor1.htm

To enable the use of fluoropolymers in these applications, their surface must be altered enough to promote bondability without changing their other very desirable characteristics. The active metals are the only chemicals known to react with the fluoropolymers. Sodium is the most commonly used material. It is a safe and environmentally sound process.

The etching process is in fact a chemical reaction between the sodium in the etchant and the fluorine in the polymer. Sodium strips the fluorine from the carbon backbone and promotes its replacement with hydroxyl, carbonyl and carboxyl groups which are the organic species responsible for adhesion.

This reaction takes place to a depth of only a few angstroms leaving the bulk of the polymer unaffected but rendering the surface completely bondable with conventional adhesives. The surface energy is increased to more than 70 dynes/cm2 and is easily verified with a water wettability test.

so they strip off fluorine on one side of the sheet and replace it with something that will bond to something else.

 

[gaidensensei]

OK, listen folks. Teflon paranoia is rooted in the 60s and 70s (or a little earlier). Some early uses weren't so nicely manufactured. Some early products tended to shed particles and emit fumes when in use. I don't know the exact history, but there was a bit of a scare back in the day because of these crappy products. As a result, there is a prevailing fear that makes the rounds regularly revolving around teflon degradation while cooking. This is not really a concern anymore since modern applications of teflon are much better than the earliest products.

Yeah, most of the scare was in the past due to the ancient mfg process or technology.

However today it's still possible to consume byproducts of these polymers due to human misuse or no grasp of chemistry knowledge. Probably over half of all Americans have very limited chemistry background. This in turn is going to be how they mess up their cookware, if not for basic cooking knowledge.

The key is how much you are consuming, as everything has a limit over time as Ronstang just said.


Since these polymers are derived of the properties of fluorine, I'm just going to go without saying that keeping the levels of fluorine consumption at low is the way to do it. I mean, it's (fluorine) even evident in the tap water of developed countries, some foods and medical uses. It only becomes cancerous at high dosage or prolonged buildup. There's nothing you can do about keeping certain synthetics out of your system unless you eat raw veggies all day long. It's steered towards how to keep ourselves from getting too much of it.

 

[Special K]

PTFE is probably one of the most least reactive resins in existence. It's used for a non stick coating. What's dangerous are the by-products of decomposition of PTFE at high temperatures - in excess of what the grille surfaces should see in normal cooking. This is why its unwise to put PTFE treated parts (like baking pans) in a self cleaning oven! On a clean cycle the oven can exceed 900 degrees Fahrenheit which can cause the release of harmful byproducts of decomposition of PTFE coatings. PTFE stands for polytetrafluroethylene. Teflon is the DuPont trade name.

So basically if I'm using the cookware at its intended temperature (or below), there's nothing to worry about even if the teflon coating starts to wear off in places?

 

[eits]

yes, it's a carcinogen if you ingest it. so, if you have pots and pans that have scratches on them, you could be ingesting teflon and not know it. it flakes off overtime if it's scratched.

solution: new cookware

 

[Special K]

yes, it's a carcinogen if you ingest it. so, if you have pots and pans that have scratches on them, you could be ingesting teflon and not know it. it flakes off overtime if it's scratched.

solution: new cookware

This seems to conflict with what Rubycon and others have said above, i.e. that it's only the byproducts of heating teflon to very high temperatures that are carcinogenic.

 

[eits]

This seems to conflict with what Rubycon and others have said above, i.e. that it's only the byproducts of heating teflon to very high temperatures that are carcinogenic.

she's probably right. i haven't really looked into it much. all i know is that, last time i checked, which was years ago, when the teflon scrapes off over time and into your food, it's carcinogistic.

 

[Special K]

she's probably right. i haven't really looked into it much. all i know is that, last time i checked, which was years ago, when the teflon scrapes off over time and into your food, it's carcinogistic.

Do you have a link to a study that demonstrates this?

 

[torpid]

I would like to see some studies one way or another, but my gut feeling is that any chemical that is labeled a serious risk for birds and small animals if heated above 300F is something I'd prefer not to have in my stomach in flake form. That includes things other than teflon, but most of those types of pans don't flake off. I suppose this actually may be the opposite of the risk, in that the flakes may be inert and the damage may already be done by heating the pan in the first place.

 

[eits]

Do you have a link to a study that demonstrates this?

just by going through google, i'm finding pro and con statements about eating teflon flakes. i am finding more things that state what rubycon said, though.

either way, if your teflon pan is flaking, it's time to get a new one. you don't need studies to tell you that ingesting teflon probably isn't good for you and that a new pan would make cooking easier and more enjoyable.

 

[eits]

I would like to see some studies one way or another, but my gut feeling is that any chemical that is labeled a serious risk for birds and small animals if heated above 300F is something I'd prefer not to have in my stomach in flake form. That includes things other than teflon, but most of those types of pans don't flake off. I suppose this actually may be the opposite of the risk, in that the flakes may be inert and the damage may already be done by heating the pan in the first place.

exactly.

 

[Kelvrick]

You know what how about YOU google that!

I thought you just knew everything?!

 

[gaidensensei]

OP, If there are already some of the teflon coating burning out, you should replace it imo. Because that signifies to me that the strongest part of the bonds have been broken, it's possible the ones underneath or other other materials can combust into the fumes at lower operating temperatures than required. Maybe you might not be using enough heat for it to become gas, but it still poses a risk when heated up.


Going thru peer reviewed journals the studies you want to be reading, here's some I dug up from quick searching via college network and google.

Long-Term Lung Clearance in Humans Studied with Teflon Particles Labeled with Chromium-51 (this is from a specific teflon process only)
Teflon - Dr. Steve Windley, MD (PDF)
Perfluorinated Compounds (PFC's) and Human Health Concerns
CDC National Exposure Report - Executive Summary for potential hazardous chemicals (look for the keyword perfluorinated chemicals)


Granted there aren't a plethora of in-depth catch-all articles on it that I have been looking for.
That means either there's lack of interest in pursuing this area of research, or scientists are unable to do it for some reason (legalities etc), or it's not as much of an issue as it should be.

Edit: Well, looking at the 3rd link, that's probably why it's not done. DuPont doesn't want to release info about their process.

 

[Rubycon]

I thought you just knew everything?!

There is no such thing as someone that knows everything silly!

I do however know to properly give credit to my sources of information.

I use a teflon conned solder sucker and have heated that in excess of 700F with no visible deformation. The cone is snow white and made of pure PTFE. It's also a good electrical insulator however HV arcing WILL sear it. (arcs are super hot so no surprise there!)

As far as it being harmful well let's just say if you're worried about bits of nonstick coating from a frying pan you better not walk outside or eat the food that you fry up! The mercury from all those coal fired power plants in North America is far worse.

Documented risk(s) are inconclusive. If you really don't want to worry about it use conventional cookware. Chefs don't use non stick pans and don't have problems. Perhaps everyone is doing it wrong in the kitchen!

 

[torpid]

Chefs don't use non stick pans and don't have problems. Perhaps everyone is doing it wrong in the kitchen!

Some chefs do.

Ignore the first part of this article and scroll down to the gary danko part.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/15/FDGMFD2KM01.DTL

 

[gaidensensei]

Yeah, its like what I've been trying to say since posting the first time in the topic.

What you're eating is more of a concern than the teflon seeping in be it liquid or gas form unless you've got like your pan or grill all bedriddled to the point that you're straight up ingesting 2x+ more than what the average person is doing, like all your meals are from the frying pan.

Look up stuff like Acrylamide, Microbiological agents, forms of ethanol poisoning, Arsenic/metal toxicology instead, and watch what you're eating instead of just the teflon stuff. I'd be more worried with the others because the average person takes those in much more often, which can pose a greater health risk instead.

But to be on topic, the asians have been going at this in talks for awhile. It all went down to using water steaming as a solution to avoid chemically treating your food. This is just opinion, and no one has to take it as a fact.