Is Steph Curry already the best shooter in NBA history?

[11thHour]

With today's rules, MJ, Bird etc could put up 50 a night easily.

Lol this thread just lost all sense of reality. So Bird's point production would double with no hand checking and less physical play? This is some perverted mythology, and people who think it would drastically effect points output need a reality check. Teams back then scored almost 10 points a game more than today's game, which doesn't suggest the game was harder to score back then.

More mythology - Ron Harper said the bulls would sweep the Warriors. The Bulls championship teams barely swept anyone outside of the first round, and never in a finals, so there's no realistic chance the bulls would sweep one of the top producing teams in the history of the league. Perhaps the Bulls would win, but statements like that are more based on delusion than reality.

(/edit: source, with more stats comparing back from 1980-2014.)

 

[SP33Demon]

Michael Jordan is spelled M I C H A E L J O R D A N. Steph Curry is completely wrong way to spell it. No contest at all. Jordan with triple coverage outscored the league on an impossible scale.

Except MJ was not a better shooter than Steph. Slower release, lower percentages on 2 and 3 pt shots, arguably not as good a handle, and not as clutch regarding dwindling shot clock as Steph -see the article linked earlier in the thread where Steph's shot percentage goes UP at 4 to 1 seconds left.

All around you could argue he was better because of rebounding and overall defense and more cumulative stats (like rings) but that's about it.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Except MJ was not a better shooter than Steph. Slower release, lower percentages on 2 and 3 pt shots, arguably not as good a handle, and not as clutch regarding dwindling shot clock as Steph -see the article linked earlier in the thread where Steph's shot percentage goes UP at 4 to 1 seconds left.

All around you could argue he was better because of rebounding and overall defense and more cumulative stats (like rings) but that's about it.

MJ could make shots and score 40+ points per game even when he had 3 or 4 people covering him. Maybe he didnt have as high of a field goal %, but, the fact is, he put the points on the board and made shots nobody else could have made.

 

[fuzzymitx]

All around you could argue he was better because of rebounding and overall defense and more cumulative stats (like rings) but that's about it.

No, you can argue he was better at SCORING. Look at their points per 36 minutes across the start of each career... Jordan schools Steph. Has steph ever lead the league in scoring?

Durability/Toughness, Jordan never missed more than 4 games from 86 to 01.

want to see a great comparison of them.... watch the shove + flop for Curry versus the push off and clutch NBA championship winning shot by Jordan... Mini-Man goes for a fairly healthy shove and then flops like a fish out of water.

Lets all enjoy his amazing season but leave the hyperbole alone...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2015/05/20/curry-flop-fine.nba/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s

 

[Childs]

The thread was about best shooter, and Jordan wasnt a great shooter. He was a volume shooter and great scorer, but thats a different conversation you should have with Wilt, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin, etc.

 

[11thHour]

Except MJ was not a better shooter than Steph. Slower release, lower percentages on 2 and 3 pt shots, arguably not as good a handle, and not as clutch regarding dwindling shot clock as Steph -see the article linked earlier in the thread where Steph's shot percentage goes UP at 4 to 1 seconds left.

All around you could argue he was better because of rebounding and overall defense and more cumulative stats (like rings) but that's about it.

Wow, let's not get drunk over the start of a great season. Jordan was a better competitor from the start. How many times has Curry been 1st team all defense? I mean 2nd team?...or 3rd team? Exactly, never for either...when Jordan was already 1st team 4 or 5 times at this point. Sure, when you get blown by all the top opposing point guards and just play the passing lanes for strips, you're going to have a lot more energy on offense to run the team and score (and in his case, create bonehead turnovers.) He's also playing with a lights-out shooting team that spreads the floor for him. What curry is doing NOW is amazing, but it's going to take years to see how it all translates, because he sure hasn't played this well throughout his career so far. To compare 1.25 years of excellent play to Jordan's career is at best, emotionally frivolous.

 

[Mandres]

It's far too early to start making comparisons for the history books.
That said, I think it's inarguable that he's on his way to one of the greatest shooting performances of an NBA season. It's exciting to watch.

 

[QueBert]

So true, I know ESPN just rides whatever hype they can get behind, and when there isn't something new it's just the LeBron the Queen made-up headlines.

I wouldn't mind Warriors / Cavs Finals and Warriors sweep 🙂

LOL Warriors struggled with the Cavs who were missing 2 of their 3 best players. Unless Love & Irving get injured again by the finals. I don't see Warriors beating them, let alone sweeping them. People are going ape shit over Steph, but they forget last finals were still very competitive with 1 team crippled to shit. They won the ring, but there should be a big ass asterisk next to it.

And even with all the hype, and Curry being really amazing, it's still Lebron > by a huge margin in the end.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

My BIL plays a lot of pickup and leagues; he is 38.
He complains about them too.
He said the young guys run and shoot 3s the whole time... but they hit them.
They are very anti "touch"; they complain heavily if you make any contact at all.
They rarely get into the paint... it is all shots from near the 3.
He said it is hilarious that all 5 players are standing outside the arch the whole time.

He said it's just the new generation.

It's such a joy playing with people that know how to screen and cut. It's art.

There is no art to shooting 3s if that is all you do. And sadly if is a some can do.

A few weeks ago I played with one of these kids. After pick up I grabbed my ball and started shooting jump shots from 3 point land. Better than normal. Maybe 70%. No "set shots". I noticed that this high schooler saw me and had a look of curiosity on his face. I 6' and it must be something seeing my release 9' up and draining them.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Oscar Schmidt

Google him.

Off Topic:
There was also a guy from NYC that is rumored to be better than Dr. J but his drug business pai more than the NBA at the time.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

People need help stop comparing generations. MJ was clearly better than everyone in his day barring silly position type comparisons. Ya, I get it... MJ can't defend shack inside.

Is Curry 50% better than the second best guard in the NBA today like Jordan? If not the debate is over.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Curry has to deal with Kris Dunn next year ;-)

 

[Excelsior]

I was at the Charlotte game last night (where they honored his father as the first Hornet) and Stephen Curry was absolutely ridiculous. There was this streak in the 3rd quarter...you just expected one of the shots to not fall but they kept falling. He didn't even play that much of the game but when he was in, dominant.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I was at the Charlotte game last night (where they honored his father as the first Hornet) and Stephen Curry was absolutely ridiculous. There was this streak in the 3rd quarter...you just expected one of the shots to not fall but they kept falling. He didn't even play that much of the game but when he was in, dominant.

The next step in evolution will be great. Teams will start drafting defensive specialists that are not the greatest offensive players. I dream of seeing the next Rodman the NBA. I appreciate someone that is the best at what they do and it isn't the same thing that 99% of the public practices.

 

[SP33Demon]

Wow, let's not get drunk over the start of a great season. Jordan was a better competitor from the start. How many times has Curry been 1st team all defense? I mean 2nd team?...or 3rd team? Exactly, never for either...when Jordan was already 1st team 4 or 5 times at this point. Sure, when you get blown by all the top opposing point guards and just play the passing lanes for strips, you're going to have a lot more energy on offense to run the team and score (and in his case, create bonehead turnovers.) He's also playing with a lights-out shooting team that spreads the floor for him. What curry is doing NOW is amazing, but it's going to take years to see how it all translates, because he sure hasn't played this well throughout his career so far. To compare 1.25 years of excellent play to Jordan's career is at best, emotionally frivolous.

Maybe you're having trouble reading, but I listed defense as a reason why MJ was better overall. However, he's not a better scorer than Steph, %'s don't lie.

 

[SP33Demon]

People need help stop comparing generations. MJ was clearly better than everyone in his day barring silly position type comparisons. Ya, I get it... MJ can't defend shack inside.

Is Curry 50% better than the second best guard in the NBA today like Jordan? If not the debate is over.

Yes, he is. He's a better shooter and scorer than MJ was vs his peers.

 

[Anubis]

Oscar Schmidt

Google him.

Off Topic:
There was also a guy from NYC that is rumored to be better than Dr. J but his drug business pai more than the NBA at the time.

Earl Manigault ?

 

[SP33Demon]

No, you can argue he was better at SCORING. Look at their points per 36 minutes across the start of each career... Jordan schools Steph. Has steph ever lead the league in scoring?

Durability/Toughness, Jordan never missed more than 4 games from 86 to 01.

want to see a great comparison of them.... watch the shove + flop for Curry versus the push off and clutch NBA championship winning shot by Jordan... Mini-Man goes for a fairly healthy shove and then flops like a fish out of water.

Lets all enjoy his amazing season but leave the hyperbole alone...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2015/05/20/curry-flop-fine.nba/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s

You're simply wrong, Steph is averaging 33.6 points per 36 this year, a number that MJ has never reached. Furthermore, Steph rarely ever plays 36 minutes anyway (he averaged 32 last year), and recent stats show that his production increases as his minutes go up. It's not linear, like Per 36 Min stat will extrapolate. Simply put, Steph's numbers have to be extrapolate UP as his minutes go UP. Sounds crazy, I know but that is what we're seeing out of the kid.

While exceeding 50 points per game sounds crazy — it would require Curry to take on the order of half of his team’s shots — as evidenced by Rodman, fully exploiting a game-breaking skill can lead to unthinkable results.

Do I really think that the Warriors will adopt an all-Curry-all-the-time strategy and knock Wilt out of the record books?

I don’t know. But Curry himself is a microcosm of the revolution that we’ve already seen. Just as the math suggests that good midrange jump shots should often be exchanged for worse 3-pointers if possible, so the math suggests that good non-Curry shots should be exchanged for worse Curry shots. I’m confident in saying that we aren’t there yet.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/

I agree with the durability argument for MJ, but it has nothing to do with shooting or scoring other than the fact that Steph isn't even playing 3/4 of the game often. If he played as many minutes as MJ, the math shows that Steph would surpass his Per 36 scoring stats.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Earl Manigault ?

Yup. Must have been something to see him play.

From his wikpieida page:
"When Abdul-Jabbar finished his career with the Los Angeles Lakers and had his number retired at the Los Angeles Forum, he was asked who was the greatest player he had played with or against. After a long silence, he answered, "That would have to be 'The Goat'"

 

[Capt Caveman]

You're simply wrong, Steph is averaging 33.6 points per 36 this year, a number that MJ has never reached. Furthermore, Steph rarely ever plays 36 minutes anyway (he averaged 32 last year), and recent stats show that his production increases as his minutes go up. It's not linear, like Per 36 Min stat will extrapolate. Simply put, Steph's numbers have to be extrapolate UP as his minutes go UP. Sounds crazy, I know but that is what we're seeing out of the kid.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/

I agree with the durability argument for MJ, but it has nothing to do with shooting or scoring other than the fact that Steph isn't even playing 3/4 of the game often. If he played as many minutes as MJ, the math shows that Steph would surpass his Per 36 scoring stats.

20 games, let's see after 82

 

[smackababy]

The next step in evolution will be great. Teams will start drafting defensive specialists that are not the greatest offensive players. I dream of seeing the next Rodman the NBA. I appreciate someone that is the best at what they do and it isn't the same thing that 99% of the public practices.

Tristian Thompson already looks to be that. His defensive and rebounding performance makes him far more valuable than his like 4 ppg star implies.

And, I'm glad someone besides me appreciates just how special of a player Rodman was. Everyone remembers his crazy antics, few recall he was one of the greats.

 

[momeNt]

Taking 20 game stretches and then comparing it to season long percentages of other players?

Also the NBA defensively has changed a lot to where a really supremely talented shooter like Curry is able to get shots off.

Bird in this NBA probably has those numbers + 5%

Below are historic 20 game stretches.


Michael Jordan - 1989-90 - 37.3 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 6 APG, 3.5 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 55.7% FG, 37.7% 3PT, 17-3 record
LeBron James - 2009-10 - 32.3 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 9.6 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 51.2% FG, 34.4% 3PT, 16-4 record,
Kobe Bryant - 2005-06 - 41.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 46.2% FG, 37.3% 3 PT, 12-8
Tim Duncan - 2001-02 - 27 PPG, 12.4 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1 SPG, 2.4 BPG, 55.2% FG, 17-3
Kevin Garnett- 2003-04- 25.8 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.6 SPG, 1.9 BPG, 51.1% FG, 16-4
Magic Johnson - 1988-89 - 25.2 PPG, 8 RPG, 12.8 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 53.5% FG, 13-7
Larry Bird - 1986-87 - 31.2 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 8.5 APG, 1.9 SPG, 1 BPG, 56% FG, 44.8% 3pt, 15-5
Kevin Durant - 2013-14 - 35.7 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 APG, 0.8 BPG, 53% FG, 39.7% 3pt, 15-5
Chris Paul - 2008-09 - 27.5 PPG, 6 RPG, 11.2 APG, 3 SPG, 53% FG, 37.8% 3pt, 11-9
The Dream - 1989-90 - 26.4 PPG, 15.6 RPG, 3.6 APG, 2.4 RPG, 5.8 BPG(wow), 49.5% FG, 12-8
Shaq - 1999-00 - 35.8 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 3.7 APG, 0.3 SPG, 2 BPG, 60.4% FG, 17-3 record
Dwyane Wade - 2008-09 - 33.1 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 8.7 APG, 2.5 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 51.2% FG, 35.1% 3PT, 10-10
Dirk - 2005-06 - 30.1 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1 SPG, 1 BPG, 49.3% FG, 41.4% 3PT, 12-8
Kevin Mchale - 1986-87 - 28.6 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 2. APG, 0.5 SPG, 2.1 BPG, 66.7% FG, 14-6
Russell Westbrook - 2014-15 - 32.8 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 10.2 APG, 2 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 43.4% FG , 14-6
Grant Hill - 1996-97 - 22.5 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 7.5 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 49.4% FG, 13-7
Fat Lever - 1988-89 - 22.2 PPG, 8.6 RPG, 8.0 APG, 2.7 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 48% FG, 14-6
Rondo - 2011-12 - 17.3 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 11.7 APG, 2.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 46.8% FG, 11-9
T-Mac - 2002-03 - 36.8 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 48.7% FG, 41.3% 3PT, 13-7
Dwight Howard - 2010-11 - 25.7 PPG, 15.6 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1.3 SPG, 2.4 BPG, 64.4% FG, 13-7
Me7o - 2012-13 - 31.9 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 46.6% FG, 44.7% 3PT, 13-7
Gilbert Arenas - 2006-07 - 33.8 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 2.2 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 45.1% FG, 40.6% 3PT(9 three attempts


edit: TLDR : Short answer - No, at least not yet.

 

[purbeast0]

this thread reminded me of thunder dan and i searched for some highlights of him on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Yv7sve5Cw

man i love old school basketball.

 

[11thHour]

this thread reminded me of thunder dan and i searched for some highlights of him on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Yv7sve5Cw

man i love old school basketball.

That dude could light it up, and with range. Very streaky, like most top 3pt shooters, with a career 35.8%. With that in mind, there's no reason to go old school when Ray Allen just retired recently, shooting a career 40% from 3 and about as consistent as there ever has been over a long career. Even so, I remember a finals game when he hit 8 or 9 in a row, but the next game must have been 0-8, lol. I'm not even going to look that one up for exactness, most here probably remember it 3 or 4 years ago. Curry's consistency could very well turn out to be historic. But for all shooters great rhythm comes and goes without notice. It will be mind-blowing if curry can go a whole season making 4.5+ a game while shooting 40%+. This game has been played too many years to not be in awe when someone completely destroys a season-long record like this in such fashion.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Tristian Thompson already looks to be that. His defensive and rebounding performance makes him far more valuable than his like 4 ppg star implies.

And, I'm glad someone besides me appreciates just how special of a player Rodman was. Everyone remembers his crazy antics, few recall he was one of the greats.

Rodman in his day was worth watching specifically. There is not a 30 on 30 on him (there should be) but I there is a documentary on him that is worth watching. Netflix maybe?

I can swear that The Bulls had a match up problem against Shack one year in the playoffs and hey went so far as putting Rodman on Shack. It actually worked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

There are some links are to similar videos. At work on crappy 4g so I can't see it all.