- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,929
- 142
- 106
Ahhh, some of these comments to read from a few years ago are hilarious. Steph not historically great? Ok bro. Lebron ain't even better than Kobe yet, go smoke some more of that good stuff.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
The greatest does not win 3 of 9 NBA finals. Lebron is a handful. He's the alpha dog, not the best of team mates. In contrast, Steph's selfless. The greatest? That's a weird term. The greatest shooter, I don't know, but for sure by far the greatest shooter from long distance.
IHateMyJob2004
Lifer
- Sep 29, 2004
- 18,665
- 67
- 91
To be frank, LBJ can take a team of people half as skilled as himself against a the best NBA teams and drop 40+ points at will. He proved it this playoff season. LBJ is the full package. He still gets frustrated like a lesser experienced player and that hurts him and his team. The thing is, LBJ is a genetic freak. The way he can pass with either hand is almost comical. Seriously, watch him pass. He does no look passes out to 3 point land and the ball goes faster than any other passer than I can think of. I mean, there is no one even close to matching the velocity of his passes.
As for Steph, he's probably the craziest shooter the NBA has seen. His shooting will prove to be prototypical in 20 years. Much like how Patrick Roy revolutionized goaltending in the NHL. He totally changed the style of goaltending. Now, everyone does what he does. In 20 years, the NBA will be loaded with players that can toss up crazy 3 pointers with reasonable success percentages. It's actually starting .... just look carefully at the long range shooters from this years draft. Some of these guys are not as crazy put the ability to do quick release 3s in transition is not going to be unique to Steph for much longer. Steph's also 6'3" which is shorter for the NBA so he has a speed advantage and it helps him get himself open for shots. He's also got pretty good ability to drive to the net.
LeBron's top speed was measured at over 20 miles per hour, which was as fast as Chris Paul's. NFL quarterbacks take an average of .4 seconds to release a pass; it takes LeBron .18 seconds. LeBron passes the ball at up to 40 miles per hour, and can hit a target who is about 12 yards away faster than Tom Brady
IHateMyJob2004
Lifer
- Sep 29, 2004
- 18,665
- 67
- 91
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,392
- 8,258
- 126
without Stephen, this warriors team wins 50+ and gets to the wcf at worst. Without lbj, this Cavs team would be lucky to win 20. Basketball is still a team game, last I checked, and the warriors have 4 all stars including KD, who is arguably the second best player in the league.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
Yea, Bird was an amazing passer and rebounder (considering his lack of physical talents) as well. He was also amazing at getting shots off in traffic. Havent watched much basketball in the last few years, so I wont compare him to current shooters. Also too bad he was hampered and ultimately had to retire relatively early due to back problems.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
- 14,705
- 117
- 106
538 did a piece on this earlier, but basically Lebron hasn't won or lost any more NBA Finals than he was expected to based on analytics, but Steph did lose in 2016 which he should have won. Michael Jordan was only expected to win 4 out of the 6 based on analytics so he's definitely an overachiever, and should rightfully be considered the greatest.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
Analytics, anashmiticks. Steph was injured in 2016, give him a break. Jordan would be a star these days, an all star, the greatest? I really doubt it.
brianmanahan
Lifer
- Sep 2, 2006
- 24,023
- 5,452
- 136
yeah, with cousins on GSW, everyone knows who will win the next championship
and it's not even close
DeMar Derozan is a poor man's Jordan and can average 27ppg in this NBA, you think prime Jordan wouldn't be the best player in the league?
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
The league's a lot better these days, IMO. Players work harder, train harder, way harder. Jordan was a great athlete and had an obsession with winning, winning at everything. But he wouldn't be one of the best of today's players without having a much greater work ethic than he had in his day. He smoked cigars, for fuck's sake, and not just after winning championships.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
And it will be a thing of beauty. I saw a 10 second clip today of Cousins in action. He makes Javale McGee look like a spastic high school player in comparison. They will be one on one against each other next year, it won't be easy on McGee.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
Yeah, kinda, but it ain't good for you... at all. I'm very anti tobacco, I admit. I favor eradicating it from the planet, TBH.
Do you think LeBron smokes... ever? He's super into maintaining his body, it's why he hasn't slackened off yet. They say he spends over $1,000,000 a year on his conditioning.
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Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
Maybe. I don't watch it much, I find it hard. The players are skilled, well if you are a great athlete and play as much as they do, you get skills. I watched a few playoff games and the finals. And I read the sports section. I don't get subscription TV.
I'm not sure I'd say better. Its definitely different though. Which I think might actually be to his benefit. I also think he'd work as hard and train as hard as anyone. I do think that he'd be up against more people that train as hard if not harder than he does (although I think you're grossly underestimating how hard they trained back then; but they definitely seemed to party a lot harder which absolutely took its toll; I think that actually hurt Jordan's career, as if he'd have partied less, I think he could've achieved even more), but I don't doubt he'd elevate his training (and use all the modern advancements that help athletes).
I think Jordan would likely have more individual accolades but less team ones now versus when he actually played. I think the pettiness that drove him would be much more on display, and that he'd be less popular because of it, so teams wouldn't be as keen on building around him. It would also I think hurt him in fitting in with a team these days (just listen to Kerr talk about how Jordan treated his teammates). So I think he would be similar to LeBron, where he can drag a team to wins, but he'll have problems winning it all because of how the team dynamic would be with him there. I could definitely see him doing a super team and then it destructing as the egos get in the way (arguably that happened in Chicago, especially the 2nd time around). I could also see him as being like Westbrook, amazing but something about the situation pushes the team from achieving the greatness it could have.
But then, Jordan himself would likely be different as well if he'd grown up now versus when he did. And he actually showed he could work with other egos, as well as most of the great players since him have, so I don't know that he'd struggle to find a team, and arguably he was good at elevating his teammates. But he'd definitely have a harder go of it going against Golden State, and LeBron, or the Spurs organization. That's not to say he didn't go up against great teams and great players, but I do think there's a difference.
Golden State themselves have said that they actually have a lot more drama going on behind the scenes than people are aware of.
Also, people were so sure that the Pats were gonna win this past year that they were talking about them going undefeated (and then the Chiefs kicked their ass in Foxborough to open the season).
I like Golden State, but I don't think people actually realize what it takes to compete at that level. There's not a lot of teams that can consistently compete for, let alone win, championships for more than a few years. Teams like the Pats and Spurs can be great, but also often fall short and have to retool before they make another serious push for titles.
The Rockets and maybe Celtics are in pretty good position to challenge, and injuries do happen.
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
The league is easier on the body nowadays than back when Jordan played. It's the reason why there are so many more threes made today, the league today favors shooters because you cannot be physical like you used to. It's why when people compare the Bulls to the Warriors, it all depends on what Era they are playing in. Steph would get murdered if he played back then with his frame and bad ankles.
And for some reason people forget how many horrible Cavs teams LeBron has single handedly taken to the NBA Finals. LeBron made Mo Williams a damn All Star.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 110,211
- 28,598
- 146
You're smoking crack. With Jordan's conditioning and stamina, playing in the 80s and 90s, he probably could have lasted another decade playing in this current league of lazy-ass wusses
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 36,946
- 7,818
- 136
Hey, Zin, I've been wondering WTF you went... Hadn't seen any posts from you for weeks.
OK, no crack here. I drink dark roast organic coffee, that's it.
I'll admit I didn't watch a ton of NBA in Jordan's day, but I sure did watch what I could on OTA TV when it came to the playoffs. I think your assessment of today's game is through a distorted lens. Or probably more to the point, your memory/impression of the NBA ~25 years ago.
Well, I had this conversation with a dude who's pretty canny about these things. He said comparing athletes from different eras is pretty meaningless because the game changes so much. Today's NBA is very different from Jordan's NBA.
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zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 110,211
- 28,598
- 146
It is very different and that is my point. Jordan played in an era when a foul was actually a foul and even then, wasn't as frequently called. It was tough and your conditioning, in point of fact, was a season-long endurance test of surviving the abuse. You and others today make this misdirected argument, again and again, that somehow their conditioning was worse. This simply can not be further from the truth. Going even further back into the seventies, the NBA was way harder on the body, yet those stars lasted for 2 and more decades. Steph hasn't seen a single season of his career without injury...yet he's somehow better conditioned in an era of flopping and "please don't touch me" flagrant fouls that have utterly ruined the game? That's nonsense. Jordan "partied hard" in an era where that actually should have hindered his season-long conditioning, game in and game out, but it didn't. He still excelled, and he's still the GOAT. Put him in with today's players, and witness the sea of broken ankles and crying, writhing floppers, strewn about the court, complaining that it's all just too unfair that someone can move like that and score like that.
Something tells me that the reason the NBA long ago stopped playing actual basketball--they just hover beyond the arc and pray that statistics favor them--is because the players are simply terrified of penetrating the lane and maybe getting hit. Apparently, Draymond Green is the "dirtiest player ever!"; yet he never would have made the roster for those 88-92 Pistons, as soft as he actually is.
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