Is something wrong with my processor?

[flexy]

This crap with extreme temps of i5 and i7s gets even better if you deal with this on some "budget" laptops with crappy cooling, like my wife's. (Not even talking about overclocked here. i5 constantly got up to 100ish shutting the laptop off, with a dinky fan trying to cool the entire system, GPU and CPU. Last time I redid TIM on her CPU so I think I solved the problem, but still. I am really not that fond on those CPUs and their heat output. Not "cool", literally.

 

[Ketchup]

"Something is weird. I just switched from my Corsair H70 to the stock cooler. Idles around 30, new Prime blend runs around 80, topped at 93 on second test of five, small ffts- immediate 100 and throttle. Games at around 40 to 60. This is with everything at stock, no XMP. With XMP Prime blend hovers around 90 to 100 with frequency going from 3700Mhz to 4200Mhz. Still idles 30 to 35 even after shutting down Prime."
This is a quote from me from another thread with a similar problem. Is there this much variance between different systems/CPUs? Don't think I have a golden chip, got it as soon as MicroCenter got them in and just accepted it as is.

Umm, what is the problem? You are running the stock cooler, letting your chip run up to 4.2 Ghz. I really wouldn't let that chip run over 4 GHz with the stick cooler. It's personal preference though. It will probably throttle on you though. I know it is rated to go up to 4.4, but there is really no need for it, especially with the stock cooler. That latest prime test is a killer, and as I said above, it would be quite rare for any game /regular application to hit it that hard.

 

[Cerb]

That's on the laptop maker (I'm guessing HP, maybe Toshiba). That's along the lines of an i3-###T, in desktop terms. HP has been doing that with their consumer lines for years now.

The trouble is that the cores can go so quickly from idle to full load, and Intel uses their throttling capability to skimp out on the stock cooler, for the desktops.

Haswell's efficiency comes from those programs not representing real-world use, and it being able to constantly jump around between power states, with that on-die voltage regulator. It's relatively efficient even fully loaded, but not much more than its predecessors, and will use more power at its top end. If you're going to do DC, rendering, etc., with one, you should probably get an aftermarket HSF ASAP.

FYI, setting my CPU back to stock, it will throttle at 100W with the latest Prime95, and that's with no IGP, and 700MHz lower base and Turbo speeds (spec is 80W). OTOH, a mass 8-thread FLAC->MP3 conversion won't even reach 55W, and Cinebench R15 stays just under 65W. Games are all over the place, but none have gone much above 65W, and none have averaged even that high, even at stock settings.

 

[Majic 7]

No problem, I was just wondering about the problems with temps at stock I have seen people posting about ever since the chip came out. For everything I do the stock heat sink works fine. I just ran Prime to check temps. My post was about 60 degree temps at idle and stock and if this is common?

 

[Denithor]

Hey guys, I've built a new gaming system recently and these are the specs:

Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
ASRock Z97 EXTREME6 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
G.Skill Trident X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory
Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X Video Card
EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Mid Tower Case

Gaming machine without an SSD boot drive? Man, you're missing out, get one, pronto!

 

[Techhog]

Gaming machine without an SSD boot drive? Man, you're missing out, get one, pronto!

I don't understand why it being a gaming machine makes that more vital than normal.

 

[sapped]

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your replies. Looks like I'll be buying a new aftermarket cooler for the CPU.
And I'm looking into it right now.

Although some important questions beforehand:
Because I live in a backwater country called australia, with the nearest computer store being 50 minutes drive away.
I'm going to bring my computer case there and let the store staff assemble it for me. (since I really don't know how
and online delivery for the cooler isn't much cheaper anyway)

What I'm wondering is, because the store have some benchmarks, I'm going to let them run it for a few hours in store,
including FurMark, Prime95 and XTU. I'm wondering what sort of temperature should I expect after the aftermarket cooler
have been put on? Such as idle/load/peak temps for the different components with the different utilities.
(say if the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO was put on)

Since it's better to know beforehand and let any problems to be fixed in the store, than find something wrong and bring
the whole case back afterwards.

By the way does aftermarket coolers come with thermal paste or do I need to buy it separately?

Also should I purchase more case fans? I'm only using the default 2 that came with my case (Fractal Design Define R5),
which is 1 in 1 out. Do you guys recommend to buy more case fans as well to help with cooling?

Sorry for these questions if it sounds silly, this is my first time building a system and I'm literally learning everything
from scratch.

 

[sapped]

Also importantly, what are the differences between the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
and the Cooler Master Hyper 212X? Which one is better?

Since my store doesn't have the 212 EVO but only the 212X.

I've looked at this website:
http://au.pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu-cooler/#qq=1&R=5,4&w=0&sort=d3&m=50

The 212 EVO seems to have crazy amount of good review compared to any other coolers on the market,
with 5 star rating. But the 212X only have 4 stars and not many bought it.

Does it mean the 212X is an inferior product compared to the 212 EVO? Funny that it also costs more.
I could try purchasing from other places online and have it delivered if the 212 EVO is a better product.

Also any other good ones that you guys wish to suggest?


Lastly this thing really have me worried, because I've ran some of those stressful benchmarks before and
frequently stayed above 100°C for several minutes, even off the chart. Have I damaged or reduced the
lifespan of my CPU or any other components in ANY way?

I'm really scared that I did something wrong which harmed my new system, since it really cost me a
fortune to buy it, been saving up for many years.

Thanks again for all your comments, really appreciate them!

 

[Yuriman]

I can't find any obvious difference between the 212X and the 212 EVO. I'm going to guess that the X is a newer revision, and probably about the same.

I have the Evo myself, and with my current overclock, I get up to around 98C during intense stress testing, and am between 60 and 80c under most most normal "heavy" loads, e.g. encoding, certain games. During some suicide runs at 4.8GHz, I've been at 105c for extended periods (20+) with high voltage. I've had my CPU running at these temps since mid-2013 and have experienced no noticeable degradation, and don't expect any for years to come. I had a high-end custom watercooling loop for a while and even bare-die I was still in the 90's C while stress testing, so I just sold it and decided to go with this moderately priced air cooler.

At stock, I wouldn't even bother with an aftermarket heat sink. Your CPU will outlast every other component in your system. These components are designed to run at these temperatures, much like your car's engine will be well over 200c in some places, with coolant at ~93c. It's a normal operating temperature.

 

[Ketchup]

Yes, the X is a new version, and they went with a slightly different shape for the vents. It should perform the same as the EVO, if not a bit better.

And I wouldn't spend too much time testing it. If you are going to ask them to test it, have them run OCCT for about 20 minutes and see what it gets up to. That will give you an idea of the worst-case scenario. I would also get a good thermal grease while you are there, such as Arctic Silver. It transfers heat a bit better than the material that Cooler Master ships with it.

 

[flexy]

Hello

If you test for temps, use OCCT and use the "small FFT test" or use the latest (!) Prime95. (also do the small FFT test, NOT "blend" or "large")

Know that prime95 will get EXTREMELY hot, even more so than OCCT "small FFT", I personally recommmend that you just use OCCT.

You do NOT need to run OCCT small FFT for longer than 10mins if you're just thermal testing. After 10 mins your CPU will be as hot as it might get, no point running longer.

Only AFTER you established your max temps with OCCT small FFT test you can do the *actual* stability testing with OCCT large FFT, then maybe at least an hour. It is very possible that you can run OCCT small FFT without problems but still need to tweak your PC testing stability with OCCT large, that is if you're overclocking. If you don't overclock, just check OCCT small FFT temps and then be done after 10mins as long as you see it doesn't go over, say, 90.

*

Pretty much any aftermarket cooler comes with thermal paste and this is necessarily not even a poor one. Although most people still prefer to use MX-4. But the diff between the included paste that comes with an EVO etc. and MX-4 might not be more than maybe 2C.

 

[Cerb]

As well, keep in mind that Haswell can change power states much faster than most coolers can respond, especially if fans aren't running at 100% all the time. So, if you see a spike with Prime95's small FFT near, or even to, 100C, as long as it lowers over the next several seconds, it's not a problem.

 

[Ranulf]

I forgot that the R4-5 cases only come with 2 fans. A 140mm top exhaust fan might help more than removing the mid HD cage for airflow.

 

[Denithor]

I don't understand why it being a gaming machine makes that more vital than normal.

Faster boot times, faster game loading times, basically no zone loading lags.

 

[flexy]

I agree that an SSD makes for the most *real* and actual feel-able improvement for a PC, also and in particular for gaming.

 

[Techhog]

Faster boot times, faster game loading times, basically no zone loading lags.

The first one applies to any computer, and the other two only make sense if the SSD is a storage drive, not a boot drive (and the load time are hardly different in most games). As a boot drive, it's no more vital than it is for any other computer.

 

[Headfoot]

"Is something wrong with my processor?"

No.

 

[sapped]

Hey guys, thanks again for all your feedbacks. I've given more thoughts about this today.

Sorry that I didn't mention this before, regarding overclocking the CPU. My original plan was to
overclock that processor only after 1 or 2 years, since the games and processing tasks today does
not require that much high frequency. So I'll only start considering to OC when I actually needed
that extra speed. Was originally considering to buy an aftermarket cooler only afterwards, and stay
with the stock intel cooler in the mean while.

However it turns out that the stock cooler is already a piece of **** like some of you said. So I'll
need to purchase an extra cooler anyway. I might as well purchase a good one now right? And maybe
start overclocking 1 or 2 years later when games gets more demanding.

Although I'm wondering does CPU coolers work this way? How long does one usually last and do I need
to switch it out with new ones in any set period? Since this is really a whole new world that I'm
not familiar with and trying to learn. Would it be better to buy a cheaper one now and buy a more
expensive one later on when I actually starts to overclock?

I think the highest frequency I'll go with the 4790k is 4.7Ghz, I wanna ask will the Cooler Master Hyper 212
be sufficient enough for that high frequency? Or do I need to look into more expensive price range?
If so how much, the Noctua NH-D15 seems like a good one from this list, will this be sufficient?

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu-cooler/#sort=d3

Also just some general information regarding CPU coolers, does faster fan RPM means it's better at
cooling and dissipating heat like it normally does? Or are other factors taken into account as well
like qualities etc. And would you guys recommend buying liquid cooling compared to air cooling?

Sorry if I'm asking so much questions, I'm totally new at this. Building that PC in the first place is
already a great enough challenge for me. I'm really overwhelmed at the moment so appreciate any help.

 

[Ketchup]

From my post in another thread, using the EVO

My chip starts throttling around 4.4 GHz at 1.25 vcore, as it would not go above 100 C, but I could see the speed drop for a split second while running OCCT. Same max temp at 4.5, but drops were more often.

You want to find the best cooler? There are reviews out there. Do some research. RPM does NOT mean everything.

The only thing that can go back with a cooler is the fan. Just dust them occasionally.

My advice? Stick with what you have. When you are ready to overclock, starting looking at the aftermarket coolers that are available at that time.

 

[flexy]

The EVO 212 or the EVO 212X are "ok" coolers, but MERELY because they are very cheap in relation to their performance. But they are sure no "high-end" coolers. I personally mounted an ancient Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme but this is officially not really a Haswell cooler, but just to prove that a good air cooler can certainly last. (The problem is just to get a way to mount them since boards and mounts for CPU change all the time, then you need a custom mount solution to mount some older cooler)

If you want a real high-performance air cooler get the Noctua D14/D15..or look into AiO watercooling. The Noctua seems arguably the best air cooler, equal or better than many AiO water coolers. But of course it has a price.

The MUCH cheaper EVO 212 is an "ok" cooler as long as you're not shooting for OC records. It's still LOTS better than a stock cooler of course and is cheap. 4.6 or MAYBE 4.7 might be possible with a Devil's Canyon.

$80 on an air cooler like the Noctua doesn't make too much sense to me...if you intend to overclock that much I would rather spend this money on some custom water cooler setup rather than keeping with air in the first place. From that P.oV. the EVO makes more sense.

 

[xthetenth]

Noctuas do have the advantage of a pretty good guarantee that if you need a mounting kit they'll send you one. I'd definitely take a close look at the compatibility list before going with a D14 or D15. If you've got a big case I think the D15 may actually be more compatible with motherboards.

 

[flexy]

I once contacted Thermaltake and asked them about a mounting kit or backplate for LGA 1150 and hinted that Noctua actually sends them out for free, so basically letting them know I very much would like one from them I let them know I am in Spain, nevertheless they referred me to vendors to *purchase* the KIT which in my case would be €11 plus s/h from Germany, another €15 or so. Not really that cool. A backplate would be like...$1 or $2 and would have saved me needing to use the EVO mounting for my TRUE120. They went through a couple of emails, like one rep from the US I think and another from Germany replied to me...instead of just sending me a $1 backplate in an envelope. Seriously....

 

[sapped]

Hey guys, thanks again for all your feedbacks.

Looks like I'll be buying the Noctua NH-D15, read so many amazing reviews on this.
That CPU is literally the most expensive component in my machine, so might as well
treat it with something good, and also opens up much possibilities later on.

Also just read some of the horror stories regarding water coolers bursting, so think
I'll be skipping those, especially when the machine is supposed to last for many years.

Anyway back to the original question, what sort of temperature should I expect with
the benchmarks after the new cooler have been mounted? I've rang the store and asked,
they told me I can bring any benchmark and stress testing tool I want.

You guys mentioned Prime is not recommended (at least the latest version), so think
I'll be using XTU. How should I run it and any other tools to recommend?

And what temperature range should I expect with the CPU (with non overclocked frequency)
after the new cooler has been mounted by store staffs? So any problems can be fixed on
the spot in store.

Such as the idle/load/peak temps for the processor and also other components as well.

Cheers guys, would not have gotten so far without your guidance and dedication, just
wanna say how much I appreciate all your help!

 

[Yuriman]

I think you might be good for a 15-20c drop in worst-case scenarios. In benchmarks that use AVX extensions (Prime, IBT), you will probably see around 80c. The delta will be smaller at lighter loads.

Read my post again (#34 in this thread), it might give you some ideas.

One thing to note is that modern Intel CPUs measure temperature differently than older chips. In the Athlon XP days, temperature monitoring was often done with a ribbon under the CPU. Later chips had it on package, but those temperatures weren't taken from the center of the die. It wouldn't surprise me if older CPUs which claimed to be running at ~50c (and even modern AMD chips, which I believe have less sophisticated temperature monitoring) weren't actually closer to 80-100c in the areas where Intel measures on their current lineup.

 

[ElFenix]

your idle temps are already below normal human body temps, so i doubt idle improves much. it doesn't need to.