Is slavery the answer to the economic crisis?

ultra laser

Banned
Jul 2, 2007
513
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Amendment 13: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Clearly, lying on one's subprime mortgage application is a crime. Now let these people pay off their debts with their labor and save the economy.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
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That makes no sense. If their labor is worth enough to pay for the mortgage, why would they not just get jobs at that rate?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ultra laser
Amendment 13: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Clearly, lying on one's subprime mortgage application is a crime. Now let these people pay off their debts with their labor and save the economy.

Nearly 3 million white collar workers in New York City lied, should they all be imprisoned as well?
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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Any worthwhile productive activities completed with criminals reduces the labour market for law abiding and unemployed people.
Either using criminals or importing cheap labour is the worst thing you could do in bad economic times.
I fully support make work projects for criminals when full employment exists but only activities with little to no economic payback. (clean-up, etc)
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
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We are all wage slaves or indentured servants now anyway.
It's just that "the Plantation" looks a bit different than in the past.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,297
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136
Such laws would probably be overturned because of their ex post facto effects...unless you suggest liquidating the Supreme Court at the same time.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,297
47,673
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Originally posted by: AlienCraft
We are all wage slaves or indentured servants now anyway.
It's just that "the Plantation" looks a bit different than in the past.

Horseshit.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,297
47,673
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
We are all wage slaves or indentured servants now anyway.
It's just that "the Plantation" looks a bit different than in the past.

Horseshit.

No, he's correct.

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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It's not like if someone murders your sister you get to make the convict your house slave.

The exception is meant for states to punish convicts with hard labor. The criminal justice system is technically for the benefit of the state, not private parties like creditors.

While the idea of bailing out homeowners makes me sick, the lenders share culpability too. It's their job to make smart loans.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
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Originally posted by: K1052

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
Nor confuse crappy choices with good ones.
If all the choices available to one are less than desirable, then an unwillingness to choose from that field cannot be faulted, no matter how imperitive it be that a choice be made. A bad choice is a bad choice regardless of the range.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's not like if someone murders your sister you get to make the convict your house slave.

The exception is meant for states to punish convicts with hard labor. The criminal justice system is technically for the benefit of the state, not private parties like creditors.

While the idea of bailing out homeowners makes me sick, the lenders share culpability too. It's their job to make smart loans.
What about the community organizations, and their lawyers, that put pressure on the lenders to make bad decisions? Are they culpable as well?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,297
47,673
136
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Originally posted by: K1052

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
Nor confuse crappy choices with good ones.
If all the choices available to one are less than desirable, then an unwillingness to choose from that field cannot be faulted, no matter how imperitive it be that a choice be made. A bad choice is a bad choice regardless of the range.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The possibility that the exact choice that you may desire isn't available every time is a reality that has to be faced.

Utopia's don't exist. Every system of government or society that has attempted to establish one has failed, usually at enormous costs to human lives.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Originally posted by: K1052

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
Nor confuse crappy choices with good ones.
If all the choices available to one are less than desirable, then an unwillingness to choose from that field cannot be faulted, no matter how imperitive it be that a choice be made. A bad choice is a bad choice regardless of the range.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The possibility that the exact choice that you may desire isn't available every time is a reality that has to be faced.

Utopia's don't exist. Every system of government or society that has attempted to establish one has failed, usually at enormous costs to human lives.

It is not a utopia that people desire, it is freedom and prosperity.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
What about the community organizations, and their lawyers, that put pressure on the lenders to make bad decisions? Are they culpable as well?

Yup.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,297
47,673
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Originally posted by: K1052

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
Nor confuse crappy choices with good ones.
If all the choices available to one are less than desirable, then an unwillingness to choose from that field cannot be faulted, no matter how imperitive it be that a choice be made. A bad choice is a bad choice regardless of the range.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The possibility that the exact choice that you may desire isn't available every time is a reality that has to be faced.

Utopia's don't exist. Every system of government or society that has attempted to establish one has failed, usually at enormous costs to human lives.

It is not a utopia that people desire, it is freedom and prosperity.

You live in a country that enables you to pursue the latter by exercising the former in whatever context appropriate, should you so decide.

The fruit isn't always going to fall from the tree directly into your hand however. You might have to climb up and get it.



 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Originally posted by: K1052

Don't confuse an unwillingness to make choices with an inability to do so.
Nor confuse crappy choices with good ones.
If all the choices available to one are less than desirable, then an unwillingness to choose from that field cannot be faulted, no matter how imperitive it be that a choice be made. A bad choice is a bad choice regardless of the range.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The possibility that the exact choice that you may desire isn't available every time is a reality that has to be faced.

Utopia's don't exist. Every system of government or society that has attempted to establish one has failed, usually at enormous costs to human lives.
This line of reasoning entirely disregards the influence of the Hegelian Dialectic* and it's pervasive use by people in power in order to retain that power.
Until people realize this and use it as the filter through which all things pass prior to choices being made or decsions rendered, poor choices and bad decsions will continue to be pawned off as good ones, and thus it shall ever be. This is evidenced in the constant call for "either / or" choices instead of the rarely considered "AND" option.
No one in power really wants an educated public. They are easier to confuse and misdirect when kept at a level less than those in power. Thus power never shifts below the status quo.
Unfortunately, what they eventually do is fail to remember those same people become furious to an extreme when they realize they've been duped or otherwise relegated to "inferipor" status. Marie Antoinette = GOP 2006 /2008

This country runs best when the middle expands faster than the top, not the other way around.
Without an expanding middle class, there are no consumers with disposable income to buy products made anywhere.


* linked due to it's concise explantion of referenced passage.


 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Yes, but only for poor people, since they cannot help themselves. I am looking for ideas on a good cutoff, but I'd say that if you make a household income less than 60k/year and/or your credit score is less than 650 you should have to work it off for the state.
 

Dufusyte

Senior member
Jul 7, 2000
659
0
0
Slavery = forced to work without compensation.

Obama is instituting "National Service" whereby young adults will work hours (later will be "years") doing the government's bidding, without significant compensation. This is the new slavery inflicted upon the populace: dedicate several years of your lives to gov work for free. Forced labor = slavery.