is saving copyrighted photos from a website considered stealing?

Is saving photos from a website considered stealing?

I say no, but the powers above me say otherwise. I need to convince them (cuz i don't wanna put annoying javascript crap all over our website)

I don't see how saving a pic for personal use is any different then tacking an article or photo from the paper onto a bulletin board.

What are your thoughts?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.
 

gsaldivar

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2001
8,691
1
81
Just saving photos from a website for personal use isn't considered stealing.
 

RaynorWolfcastle

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
8,968
16
81
you will be losing that argument. If you want to use someone else's work, you can begin by emailing the webmaster.

edit: I'm not sure about personal use. I can't copy music for personal use so why could I copy pictures?
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

But, by the very nature of the way web browsers work, a copy of the remote data is already stored locally on your machine. Is it also legal to go into your browser cache and copy the same item to another location on your computer?
 

Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

but if thats the case, then how can todays browsers and operating systems legally cache websites?
my temporary internet files has 800mbs of graphics
i didn't copy it, but it's there on my hard drive
 

gsaldivar

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2001
8,691
1
81
Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
you will be losing that argument. If you want to use someone else's work, you can begin by emailing the webmaster.

He didn't say he was going to "use" them. He just said he was saving them.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

But, by the very nature of the way web browsers work, a copy of the remote data is already stored locally on your machine. Is it also legal to go into your browser cache and copy the same item to another location on your computer?

good point. And why copyright laws in the digital age are sketchy.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: jntdesign
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

but if thats the case, then how can todays browsers and operating systems legally cache websites?
my temporary internet files has 800mbs of graphics
i didn't copy it, but it's there on my hard drive

I agree. By publishing something on a website, you implicitly agree to allow people to download whatever you publish to their computer.

Re-publishing it without permission, however...that's a different story.
 

Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: jntdesign
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

but if thats the case, then how can todays browsers and operating systems legally cache websites?
my temporary internet files has 800mbs of graphics
i didn't copy it, but it's there on my hard drive

I agree. By publishing something on a website, you implicitly agree to allow people to download whatever you publish to their computer.

Re-publishing it without permission, however...that's a different story.

Nicely put, care if i use that in mondays meeting/flamefest? :D
 

Modeps

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
17,254
44
91
Originally posted by: jntdesign
Is saving photos from a website considered stealing?

I say no, but the powers above me say otherwise. I need to convince them (cuz i don't wanna put annoying javascript crap all over our website)

I don't see how saving a pic for personal use is any different then tacking an article or photo from the paper onto a bulletin board.

What are your thoughts?

No of course not, you can also use them on your own website, then sell them too!
 

gsaldivar

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2001
8,691
1
81
Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
may I ask what you want to do with the pictures, if not using them?

He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you. :beer::D
 

ledniz

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2003
11
0
0
Technically, if you take the photo from someone else's website and place it on your own without permission, that is an infringement of the copyright holders rights. When I have done it in the past, I always contacted the site whose image I wanted to copy and asked if I could copy it, I was only refused one time. That was because they said they didn't have the image on their site, they claimed not to know what I was talking about (even though I emailled them the URL of their page with the image).
You mention saving it for your personal use, that is different from putting it on your own website. Once it goes on a website (or in a pamphlet or document you circulate) it is "published" which is very different from saving it for your own use.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: jntdesign
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: jntdesign
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

but if thats the case, then how can todays browsers and operating systems legally cache websites?
my temporary internet files has 800mbs of graphics
i didn't copy it, but it's there on my hard drive

I agree. By publishing something on a website, you implicitly agree to allow people to download whatever you publish to their computer.

Re-publishing it without permission, however...that's a different story.

Nicely put, care if i use that in mondays meeting/flamefest? :D

Sure.
Just bear in mind that I'm not a lawyer so I could be deadass wrong from a legal perspective :D
 

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
may I ask what you want to do with the pictures, if not using them?

desktop backgrounds, scrapbooks, fun with photoshop
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

But, by the very nature of the way web browsers work, a copy of the remote data is already stored locally on your machine. Is it also legal to go into your browser cache and copy the same item to another location on your computer?

good point. And why copyright laws in the digital age are sketchy.

Another sketchy issue is when you embed an image stored on another server directly into your webpage - you didn't copy it, the data is still coming from the owner's server, but it's obviously not the way the owner would like their copyrighted work to be used. Some copyright owners even have an issue with "deep-linking" - linking to a specific article on a news website for instance, allowing the user to bypasss the ads on the main page. Some newspapers prohibit it in their terms of service.

jntdesign, iirc you're the webmaster for a newspaper? I'd say you should tell the powers that be that using javascript to prevent people from right-clicking would only serve to alienate your readers. If they really WANT to steal the picture, there's no way to stop them. They could view the source of the website and type the URL of the picture in, heck they could even take a screenshot and crop out the text. Not to mention the image is already stored in the cache. It's not like other newspapers are going to steal your pictures, they know the law, it's just casual users they're trying to stop, and it doesn't benefit them at all to do so.
 

keep in mind it's not ME who wants to download and 'use' the photos
i'm the web guy who doesn't want to litter the website with an annoying right click disabling javascript
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
No, it's legal. The photo had to be saved to your local hard drive just to be viewed within the web browser. Re-publication or anything other commercial use without permission is what's illegal.
Your analogy is somewhat correct, but a more correct one (IMO) would be like saying that once you read a copyrighted book that you legally obtained, that you would have to throw it away instead of keeping it on your bookshelf.
So long as you legally acquired the copyrighted photo, and use it in a manner permissible by the copyright owner, then you may keep it or store it as you see fit.
 

Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: spidey07
How can it not be?

That's what the copyright is for. See that first word? copy.

You are making a copy of something copyrighted.

But, by the very nature of the way web browsers work, a copy of the remote data is already stored locally on your machine. Is it also legal to go into your browser cache and copy the same item to another location on your computer?

good point. And why copyright laws in the digital age are sketchy.

Another sketchy issue is when you embed an image stored on another server directly into your webpage - you didn't copy it, the data is still coming from the owner's server, but it's obviously not the way the owner would like their copyrighted work to be used. Some copyright owners even have an issue with "deep-linking" - linking to a specific article on a news website for instance, allowing the user to bypasss the ads on the main page. Some newspapers prohibit it in their terms of service.

jntdesign, iirc you're the webmaster for a newspaper? I'd say you should tell the powers that be that using javascript to prevent people from right-clicking would only serve to alienate your readers. If they really WANT to steal the picture, there's no way to stop them. They could view the source of the website and type the URL of the picture in, heck they could even take a screenshot and crop out the text. Not to mention the image is only stored in the cache. It's not like other newspapers are going to steal your pictures, they know the law, it's just casual users they're trying to stop, and it doesn't benefit them at all to do so.

yes, webmaster for a newspaper
i could really blow their mind and tell them that with a little bit of URL manipulation the user can get the extra large high resolution version of the graphic and rid the watermark at the same time
 

Originally posted by: Vic
No, it's legal. The photo had to be saved to your local hard drive just to be viewed within the web browser. Re-publication or anything other commercial use without permission is what's illegal.
Your analogy is somewhat correct, but a more correct one (IMO) would be like saying that once you read a copyrighted book that you legally obtained, that you would have to throw it away instead of keeping it on your bookshelf.
So long as you legally acquired the copyrighted photo, and use it in a manner permissible by the copyright owner, then you may keep it or store it as you see fit.

good stuff! thanks!
 

chrisms

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2003
6,615
0
0
Simply saving the file is not stealing. The file is saved automatically when you view the website to begin with. If you have a copyrighted photo on your hard drive just to look at it or have it as a wallpaper, you aren't stealing.

If you use it on your website, it is stealing. Even for a personal homepage, although you have a better arguement for that one. I used to make all sorts of images with Photoshop and had a website, and sometimes I would see my images copied elsewhere and it is irritating. Ask permission if you want to use the photos elsewhere.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: jntdesign
keep in mind it's not ME who wants to download and 'use' the photos
i'm the web guy who doesn't want to litter the website with an annoying right click disabling javascript
I see. So it's your company's content you're trying to protect? :confused:

Well, those don't work anyway, as mentioned, as a user could just retrieve the photo from their browser cache (or even alt-print screen). You'll stop the naive users (who are the majority) but the power users you'll just piss off.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Two words.

FAIR USE

Text

Text

"Uses That Are Generally Fair Uses
Subject to some general limitations discussed later in this article, the following types of uses are usually deemed fair uses:
Criticism and comment -- for example, quoting or excerpting a work in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment.
News reporting -- for example, summarizing an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report.
Research and scholarship -- for example, quoting a short passage in a scholarly, scientific, or technical work for illustration or clarification of the author's observations.
Nonprofit educational uses -- for example, photocopying of limited portions of written works by teachers for classroom use.
Parody -- that is, a work that ridicules another, usually well-known, work by imitating it in a comic way. "
((from the first link))