Discussion Is Ryzen 7800X3D a half baked product nobody should buy?

[Kocicak]

7800X3D feels like a half baked product.

You get a functioning CPU (a different product) and you slap some memory on top of that. No chef would get complimented for getting a ready meal and just layering it with more of one ingredient. To get the best performance from this approach, you need to change and optimize the base meal as well.

How would a "7800X3D like" CPU perform, if it had e.g. 12 cores streamlined and optimized to receive additional cache on top of them? Or not only cash? There seems to be 50% of space UNUSED on top of the chiplet. Is not this a waste of space?

Nobody should buy this cooking abomination and AMD should do better. Much better...



Locked - Moderator DAPUNISHER

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

What the hell?

 

[NTMBK]

They had to design the entire memory subsystem around this feature. They needed to put through-silicon vias in the chip to attach the cache to, they needed a cache controller capable of addressing the extra chip, etc. No, you can't just "slap memory on top".

 

[In2Photos]

Inhale a little too much of that smoke from your 13900K?

 

[FangBLade]

What to say about Intel who is not able to beat that semi-product, abomination, that chef should be fired immediately.

 

[Kocicak]

They had to design the entire memory subsystem around this feature. They needed to put through-silicon vias in the chip to attach the cache to, they needed a cache controller capable of addressing the extra chip, etc. No, you can't just "slap memory on top".

I am not saying that the base chiplet is not adjusted to receive the additional cash on top of it.

It just feels that by having a special version of the chiplet (not a chiplet which could work alone) this approach of layering the cache (or other stuff) on top could bring much higher performance.

Again: a half of the space on top of the chiplet is wasted. You could move some of the stuff from below and make room for more cores there.

 

[FangBLade]

I am not saying that the base chiplet is not adjusted to receive the additional cash on top of it.

It just feels that by having a special version of the chiplet (not a chiplet which could work alone) this approach of layering the cash (or other stuff) on top could bring much higher performance.

You forgot to look at it from another perspective, they used an existing architecture and added cache to it, a fast way for an architectural performance leap, sufficient for Intel, why waste money and time on something more when it's not necessary?

 

[FangBLade]

To customers like us, the only thing that matters in the end are the final performance we get, and how we got it is not our concern. However, when you look at power consumption/performance, then AMD has done a phenomenal job. You forgot to mention what that says about Intel, which is unable to beat that quickly-made product?

 

[Kocicak]

You forgot to look at it from another perspective, they used an existing architecture and added cache to it, a fast way for an architectural performance leap, sufficient for Intel, why waste money and time on something more when it's not necessary?

I remember reading an interview with somebody from AMD, and they said that they do not hold back, that they bring whatever they can on the market, because they know, that Intel will catch up at some point.

I do not know if they abandoned this approach, and they just do what "is sufficient without wasting too much money" now.

 

[FangBLade]

I remember reading an interview with somebody from AMD, and they said that they do not hold back, that they bring whatever they can on the market, because they know, that Intel will catch up at some point.

I do not know if they abandoned this approach, and they just do what "is sufficient without wasting too much money" now.

They directed all resources towards Zen 5, 3dcache on Zen 4 is a fast and "cheap" way to speed up performance, just enough to beat Intel, and still cheaper than starting a new architecture from scratch, which takes the most time. They knew they didn't need more for RPL. Intel is now powerless until 2024-2025, MTL will be a mobile design, and if AMD decides to release 3dcache for mobile processors as well, the game is over for Intel.

 

[Kocicak]

They directed all resources towards Zen 5, 3dcache on Zen 4 is a fast and "cheap" way to speed up performance, just enough to beat Intel, and still cheaper than starting a new architecture from scratch, which takes the most time. They knew they didn't need more for RPL. Intel is now powerless until 2024-2025, MTL will be a mobile design, and if AMD decides to release 3dcache for mobile processors as well, the game is over for Intel.

I can understand that with huge complexity of these things it may not be feasible to do what I suggested, and the bulk of improvements comes with the next gen of the CPUs.

The 7800X3D is still a "one trick pony" and it is pretty expensive. You get similar application performance from Intel 13500, and for the same price you can buy 13700K, which has 16 cores and much higher application performance. If Intel did not have the energy inefficiency problem, AMD could not charge so much for their CPUs.

Perhaps AMD really do not have the 7800X3D as their priority deserving special attention, and they just look forward to Zen 5. If they do, customers should probably do the same thing and not buy too many half baked products.

 

[aigomorla]

is it just me or i think the OP got it the otherway around....

The 7800X is a half baked cheaper product of the 7800X3D, that only gamers buy, because it only really comes down to that gaming performance mostly on that increased cost of a X3D over a regular.

 

[bigboxes]

I thought that AT didn't allow troll threads.

 

[Kocicak]

Saying that a product could be done differently and bring much more performance to customers is hardly trolling.

 

[bigboxes]

Saying that a product could be done differently and bring much more performance to customers is hardly trolling.

You sound like you're trolling.

 

[Mopetar]

April Fools was over a week ago. You missed your window for this.

I'm also pretty sure this is a complete troll. Anyone who would spell it "cash" on a tech forum is obviously trolling.

 

[FangBLade]

You sound like you're trolling.

His ego is just a little hurt, AMD destroyed Intel with a semi-product while Intel has a complete product, that's how he sees it

 

[FangBLade]

I can understand that with huge complexity of these things it may not be feasible to do what I suggested, and the bulk of improvements comes with the next gen of the CPUs.

The 7800X3D is still a "one trick pony" and it is pretty expensive. You get similar application performance from Intel 13500, and for the same price you can buy 13700K, which has 16 cores and much higher application performance. If Intel did not have the energy inefficiency problem, AMD could not charge so much for their CPUs.

Perhaps AMD really do not have the 7800X3D as their priority deserving special attention, and they just look forward to Zen 5. If they do, customers should probably do the same thing and not buy too many half baked products.

That's why I didn't buy Intel, they offer me only half of the real cores, a.k.a a half-baked product

 

[igor_kavinski]

Good luck dissuading gamers from buying the X3D

So far, you are not doing a good job

 

[In2Photos]

Saying that a product could be done differently and bring much more performance to customers is hardly trolling.

You literally started a thread a while back about CPUs consuming too much power. AMD releases the best performing gaming CPU with the best energy efficiency and you say it's "half-baked". I wonder why people think you're trolling. 🙄

 

[VirtualLarry]

Whopper WITH Cheese, thank you!

 

[sandorski]

Cash = Physical currency
Cache = Area of Storage
[/GrandmaNazi]

79xx x3d processors had a/some CCD issues/concerns that would fit better as "half-baked" examples. Assuming they were accurate.

 

[Kocicak]

I fixed all the cashes. Now everybody please fix it in your quotes, thank you.

I honestly believe that AMD could get at least 30, perhaps even 50% more performance out of this, if they made a special chiplet for this gaming CPU (and a special upper die with extra CACHE or other stuff too). Perhaps I am wrong, but possibly not.

There is a lot left on the table with this add on die approach.