Is religion a good thing?

[HAL9000]

I live in England, I have a degree in philosophy, I know a few religious people, I went to a christian primary school. There are three or four churches in my town including a cathedral. I have seen some good come from religion, charities and the like, but only very small things. On a global scale religion causes war, disruption between countries, segregation and generally chaos.

My personal stance on religion is that it is bordering on a plague of illogic infecting the planet. The vast majority believe because they were raised to, and the others are searching for something they cannot find elsewhere so find it in religion.

How do you feel? There are obviously some religious people in this forum, and some atheists like me. So my question is, to both groups, regardless of what your personal beliefs are do you feel that religion is a benefit to the world or a hinderance? Obviously this is an over-generalisation, but as we are often discussing huge topics with many implications, what about this?

 

[feralkid]

Only in moderation.

 

[bamacre]

Religion is a tool. Religion by itself is neither "good" nor "bad." That description is fit only in how it is used. Like science, or an object like a gun, the morality, or lack of, can only exist within the user, not the tool itself.

 

[HAL9000]

Religion is a tool. Religion by itself is neither "good" nor "bad." That description is fit only in how it is used. Like science, or an object like a gun, the morality, or lack of, can only exist within the user, not the tool itself.

A valid point, but rather than the concept of religion I'm asking about it based on the interpretations of said concept in our world.

 

[Dissipate]

Religion is a tool. Religion by itself is neither "good" nor "bad." That description is fit only in how it is used. Like science, or an object like a gun, the morality, or lack of, can only exist within the user, not the tool itself.

It's a tool alright, a tool to get money out of people and control them.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Religion is a tool. Religion by itself is neither "good" nor "bad." That description is fit only in how it is used. Like science, or an object like a gun, the morality, or lack of, can only exist within the user, not the tool itself.

This is pretty spot on as far as the concept of religion being "good or bad".

However, the practice of religion is not the same as the concept of religion. While you can conceivably choose to pick up or lay down the "tool", the propagation through indoctrination from birth in some cases, make it less a tool and more of an inherent trait.

In that respect, religions are bad on so many levels. While they proclaim to be born of good and caring aspects and in most cases the base members do live their lives to accomplish that mission, the goals of the leaders of these religions have only a single self serving goal....self preservation of the religion.

There is no way you are going to hear the Pope, the Mullahs, the Rabbis, the Reverends or whatever the title adorned to the leader come out and proclaim that science has made them obsolete and that, while they had a great run, they will now turn into a non-profit charitable organization dedicated to helping other groups. What will occur is a moving of the goal posts and a redefining of their doctrine to accommodate the new empirical evidence in a manner that allows them to still exist.

 

[bamacre]

A valid point, but rather than the concept of religion I'm asking about it based on the interpretations of said concept in our world.

Interpretations are made by individuals, and should be judged individually.

 

[HAL9000]

Interpretations are made by individuals, and should be judged individually.

With somethings, but with something like religion the individuals group together with their interpretations and have an effect on mankind as a whole.

 

[highland145]

Looks like it's working out pretty well.

NSFW

http://www.tutztutz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/khajuraho_1_1203486611.jpg

 

[CVSiN]

I live in England, I have a degree in philosophy, I know a few religious people, I went to a christian primary school. There are three or four churches in my town including a cathedral. I have seen some good come from religion, charities and the like, but only very small things. On a global scale religion causes war, disruption between countries, segregation and generally chaos.

My personal stance on religion is that it is bordering on a plague of illogic infecting the planet. The vast majority believe because they were raised to, and the others are searching for something they cannot find elsewhere so find it in religion.

How do you feel? There are obviously some religious people in this forum, and some atheists like me. So my question is, to both groups, regardless of what your personal beliefs are do you feel that religion is a benefit to the world or a hinderance? Obviously this is an over-generalisation, but as we are often discussing huge topics with many implications, what about this?

see my sig..
bout sums it up..
Religion is a tool to control weak minded people into compliance of someones ideals of ideal behavior.

nothing more..

 

[HAL9000]

This is pretty spot on as far as the concept of religion being "good or bad".

However, the practice of religion is not the same as the concept of religion. While you can conceivably choose to pick up or lay down the "tool", the propagation through indoctrination from birth in some cases, make it less a tool and more of an inherent trait.

In that respect, religions are bad on so many levels. While they proclaim to be born of good and caring aspects and in most cases the base members do live their lives to accomplish that mission, the goals of the leaders of these religions have only a single self serving goal....self preservation of the religion.

There is no way you are going to hear the Pope, the Mullahs, the Rabbis, the Reverends or whatever the title adorned to the leader come out and proclaim that science has made them obsolete and that, while they had a great run, they will now turn into a non-profit charitable organization dedicated to helping other groups. What will occur is a moving of the goal posts and a redefining of their doctrine to accommodate the new empirical evidence in a manner that allows them to still exist.

We can dream though... :wub:

 

[Homerboy]

Religion is as good as creating obvious troll bait threads.

 

[HAL9000]

Looks like it's working out pretty well.

NSFW

http://www.tutztutz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/khajuraho_1_1203486611.jpg

:hmm: Maybe I should change my side.

see my sig..
bout sums it up..
Religion is a tool to control weak minded people into compliance of someones ideals of ideal behavior.

nothing more..

Agreed.

 

[HAL9000]

Religion is as good as creating obvious troll bait threads.

True, you got here quickly.

 

[bamacre]

It's a tool alright, a tool to get money out of people and control them.

It has been used in that manner, yes. But your ignorance of it being used to achieve different goals is rather obvious.

 

[bignateyk]

It does plenty of good things, but plenty of bad things. I say it's a wash. I think without it you'd find people to be just as charitable, and you'd also find people to be just as hateful and war-mongering.

 

[HAL9000]

It has been used in that manner, yes. But your ignorance of it being used to achieve different goals is rather obvious.

Misread. Agree with you.

 

[HAL9000]

It does plenty of good things, but plenty of bad things. I say it's a wash. I think without it you'd find people to be just as charitable, and you'd also find people to be just as hateful and war-mongering.

A good point, but as I said in the OP. It's a generalisation that I'm looking for as it's impossible to look at it on a individual basis like this.

 

[bamacre]

With somethings, but with something like religion the individuals group together with their interpretations and have an effect on mankind as a whole.

You're willing to lump the religious together, something the religious obviously despise. Do you know how many different kinds of Baptists exist?

 

[actuarial]

Was a benefit now a hindrance.

 

[piasabird]

Religion never caused a war. People cause war. Religion may sometimes be an excuse for a war or be used as a reason for a war, but people use violence for power and control.

Religion is just one form of philosophy. When religion is forced on an entire population it can be part of the culture of a group. If religion is forced on people, then the people are not free, they are oppressed. The same can be said for slavery, Cast Systems, Communism, socialism, and Kingdoms.

Hitler made laws persecuting jews. You could say that constitutes a NAZI religion.

I dont consider religion to be a hindrance, because in the USA I am free to choose my beliefs and my paths. I dont consider teaching people to care about each other to be a bad thing.

 

[HAL9000]

You're willing to lump the religious together, something the religious obviously despise. Do you know how many different kinds of Baptists exist?

Yes I do, but my problem is with illogic, not religion as such, only because religion is mass illogic do I have a problem

Religion never caused a war. People cause war. Religion may sometimes be an excuse for a war or be used as a reason for a war, but people use violence for power and control.

Religion is just one form of philosophy. When religion is forced on an entire population it can be part of the culture of a group. If religion is forced on people, then the people are not free, they are oppressed. The same can be said for slavery, Cast Systems, Communism, socialism, and Kingdoms.

Hitler made laws persecuting jews. You could say that constitutes a NAZI religion.

Very good points, but my argument would be that without the basis for this segregation between people or nations perhaps some wars would never have happened.

 

[Scotteq]

I'll call it a Benefit, in moderation of course.


Why?


IMHO, it is important to have a base philosophy and guide for personal behavior and personal/social morality. "Religion" (and I do use the term loosely and inclusively) provides this without having to 'reinvent the wheel' every time. So whether one adheres to a Catholic set of beliefs, a Muslim set of beliefs, (Bhuddist... Shinto... Hindu... Unitarian.... Wiccan... whatever) is less important to me in this context as the fact that some moral code exists and is adhered to by that individual. On this level, the Judeo~Christian 10 Commandments receives equal footing as the Yamas and Niyamas (Hinduism), which in turn is equal to the 5/8/10 Precepts of Bhuddism.


And on a personal level: I do see the the secular Organization & Bureaucracy of each religion as a separate entity from the religion itself. i.e.: The Pope isn't God. And just because some Ulama said so, doesn't necessarily mean that's really the word/intent of Allah. The reasoning for this is as plain as the millions and millions killed in the name of a "Just and Loving God" because the people over there don't read from the same book.

 

[HAL9000]

I'll call it a Benefit, in moderation of course.


Why?


IMHO, it is important to have a base philosophy and guide for personal behavior and personal/social morality. "Religion" (and I do use the term loosely and inclusively) provides this without having to 'reinvent the wheel' every time. So whether one adheres to a Catholic set of beliefs, a Muslim set of beliefs, (Bhuddist... Shinto... Hindu... Unitarian.... Wiccan... whatever) is less important to me in this context as the fact that some personal/moral code exists and is adhered to by that individual. On this level, the Judeo~Christian 10 Commandments receives equal footing as the Yamas and Niyamas (Hinduism), which in turn is equal to the 5/8/10 Precepts of Bhuddism.

A very fair point, but wouldn't you argue that nations develop their own social basis for morality and ethics without religion, people's right and wrong often comes from their parents morality, whether it is religious based or not...

And on a personal level: I do see the the secular Organization & Bureaucracy of each religion as a separate entity from the religion itself. i.e.: The Pope isn't God. And just because some Ulama said so, doesn't necessarily mean that's really the word/intent of Allah. The reasoning for this is as plain as the millions and millions killed in the name of a "Just and Loving God" because the people over there don't read from the same book.

Agreed.

 

[CRXican]

religion is a crutch for the weak