Is religion a good thing?

[highland145]

also, are you phinneaswhoopie? c'mon you can tell me.

"what's a phinneaswhoopie?"

Spot on, imo.

 

[HAL9000]

Doing so would be irrelevant and uninteresting to those who have survived cancer.

BTW, you do know who and what I am referring to, right?

No I don't. but I do know that people do sometimes improve or even survive diseases like cancer based on a placebo effect.

Religion may not make sense to you or me, but if it gives other people hope and helps them cope with life's challenges, who are we to tell them "hey your beliefs are stupid, stop it." As long as they don't force their crap on me, I really couldn't care less. If religion is a positive influence for someone, more power to them IMO.

The thing is, I don't think that religion can be a positive influence, people may think it is, but ignorance is never beneficial.

Dogmas will always exist, even without religion. But as long as reason and intellectual honesty are more important then personal fame and riches, humanity will get there. Science and education is no different then religion in principle. Because Science and education too can be used for the wrong reasons.

I have been researching history for some time .
It has occurred to me that a lot of jumps in human progression happen on those locations of the world where people all have a common positive mindset. Thinking as one. Same ideals, same positive dreams. Feeling of being saved. People without knowing and realizing hype each other up to be even more positive. And when there are no worries, the chance rise that multiple inventors come to the same realization usually at similar times. In the recent past, hippies where strange people, they almost got it right. That is until they started to share physical love. Of course with all the problems that come from that.

First the mindset of people must change. Tools of progress are no toys in the hands of the wrong mindset.

That's an interesting point, but are you saying that based on your research scientific progression can be aided by large religious communities?

 

[HAL9000]

Spot on, imo.

You must be a religious type, a creationist; regardless of all the evidence, the scientific proof of one thing you believe the other.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Shut your whore mouth!

 

[William Gaatjes]

Herein lies the real Benefits of a Classical Education: "How To Think"



Cheers, Y'all!

Cheers !

The problem is comprised of many smaller problems. One is that schools are seen as awful institutions that cost money, one of the biggest failures of any government in the world. When some manager type joins the government, the first thing they do is cut the financial resources for schools and colleges. Even at private institutions this is the same case. Classes get bigger. Less time for the individual student. More stress for the teacher. While an investment in a school is an investment in life.

It is only fair to say that some students do not choose their career well.
But that usually is because they are unaware what their strengths are.

Another point is that in the past, when not having much money, people became craftsmen from young age. This should be encouraged once again but as an updated version with a modern view. It is rare to see companies and schools working together. Of course for colleges it is common.

 

[frostedflakes]

No I don't. but I do know that people do sometimes improve or even survive diseases like cancer based on a placebo effect.



The thing is, I don't think that religion can be a positive influence, people may think it is, but ignorance is never beneficial.



That's an interesting point, but are you saying that based on your research scientific progression can be aided by large religious communities?

Ignorance can be very beneficial. See placebo effect.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, I guess.

 

[highland145]

You must be a religious type, a creationist; regardless of all the evidence, the scientific proof of one thing you believe the other.

I posted already.

 

[HAL9000]

I posted already.

Yep, you did.

Let me rephrase, I'm Neckarb, that is all.

 

[HAL9000]

Ignorance can be very beneficial. See placebo effect.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, I guess.

Agreed (or disagreed depending on how you look at it)

 

[HAL9000]

Cheers !

The problem is comprised of many smaller problems. One is that schools are seen as awful institutions that cost money, one of the biggest failures of any government in the world. When some manager type joins the government, the first thing they do is cut the financial resources for schools and colleges. Even at private institutions this is the same case. Classes get bigger. Less time for the individual student. More stress for the teacher. While an investment in a school is an investment in life.

It is only fair to say that some students do not choose their career well.
But that usually is because they are unaware what their strengths are.

Another point is that in the past, when not having much money, people became craftsmen from young age. This should be encouraged once again but as an updated version with a modern view. It is rare to see companies and schools working together. Of course for colleges it is common.

Yes that's true, schools are subjective, but philosophy is not (the concept of philosophy) the love of knowledge, the quest for answers, that can be taught anywhere.

 

[highland145]

Yep, you did.

Let me rephrase, I'm Neckarb, that is all.

Meant this
http://www.tutztutz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/khajuraho_1_1203486611.jpg
NSFW
In regards to this

You must be a religious type, a creationist; regardless of all the evidence, the scientific proof of one thing you believe the other.

 

[CVSiN]

Religion may not make sense to you or me, but if it gives other people hope and helps them cope with life's challenges, who are we to tell them "hey your beliefs are stupid, stop it." As long as they don't force their crap on me, I really couldn't care less. If religion is a positive influence for someone, more power to them IMO.

This is fine and dandy and I agree.. but we have problems when the governments forget there is supposed to be a separation of church and state and push those beliefs on the populace.


the USA is not the only guilty party here when it comes to that either..

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

In the past, it has probably been overall a good thing for the survival of our species, as it brought and kept groups of people together, unified them.

However, it has caused more deaths, war, strife, suffering, social upheval, genocide, etc than everything else combined. In that regard, it is a dispicible thing.

There is no need for religion in this modern society. It serves no survival purpose. It explains nothing. It's utterly meaningless, and I sincerely hope it fades into oblivion.

I wish I could live for a couple of thousand more years to see that come about.

There is no evidence that war and strife will be completely eliminated with the eradication of religion. Violence and suffering can stem from numerous things. Racism for example, has little roots in religion but more from a fear of the unfamiliar and upbringing. Animosity always seems to exist even today between the wealth classes.

To have a chance of completely eliminating hate and violence the biggest tool you can use is proper education of the masses. Unfortunately the dispersion of knowledge is directly tied to distribution of wealth. A free public school education these days (or if ever) does not ensure that person will be free of his biases and ignorance. But the path to giving free university education to everyone in the country might come off as anti-Capitalist/ pro-Socialist. (University education by itself won't erase biases either but it helps.) As you can see from the constant heated debates that exist on this issue animosity can stem from almost anything. University education by itself won't erase biases either but it helps.

North Korea is a perfect example. A state free of religion (unless you consider the ruling party as the church of Kim Il-Sung) but is a threat to the peace of the world. The problem is the ruling class has all the education and knowledge of the world while the general public is left in the dark. Religion isn't the only thing that can be used to control people.

 

[HAL9000]

Meant this
http://www.tutztutz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/khajuraho_1_1203486611.jpg
NSFW
In regards to this

Yeah I know, it only called you a creationist, because you seem happy to accept that I'm someone else in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

 

[HAL9000]

This is fine and dandy and I agree.. but we have problems when the governments forget there is supposed to be a separation of church and state and push those beliefs on the populace.


the USA is not the only guilty party here when it comes to that either..

Luckily over here it would seem that the religiously motivitated polititions are seen as right wing nutjobs,

 

[highland145]

Yeah I know, it only called you a creationist, because you seem happy to accept that I'm someone else in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

I'm not sure who I am so I think you're pretty safe. But I would like to know if you're Elvis. I'd like an autograph.

 

[HAL9000]

I'm not sure who I am so I think you're pretty safe. But I would like to know if you're Elvis. I'd like an autograph.

Alas I'm not Elvis, but my mate is Buddy Holly, I could get you an autograph if you fancy?

 

[William Gaatjes]

That's an interesting point, but are you saying that based on your research scientific progression can be aided by large religious communities?

Not because of the religion preached. With this i mean, people can believe in the holy hamburger(Which i am enjoying at the moment). I think the point is they think alike and do not fear each other and have hope for a peaceful future. Look at all golden era's. Of course there where wars, but between who ? A large group of people with a common mindset against another group of people. Most recent, USSR and USA ? What drove people to be so furious while having the same mindset ? Companies in the USA building factories to create weapons at cost price without profit. Just being patriotic. It is the mindset that is the key. In the end of course the factory building patriots where rewarded for their work.
Anyway, with religion it is easier to create a mindset. Especially in the past centuries ago when most people where not able to read and write or books where not present. Survival was more important then whatever education may existed. People worked on the land. Child labour ? That was a common thing.


By the way : It is not really research, it is a hobby. I like history .

I do not preach war, it is just difficult to get people to get along with each other. Humans are solitary mammals living in social groups. It is the desire to be independent that is a strong driving force, but as a group, you accomplish a whole lot more. It is an endless internal struggle. Hence the desire to ascend also exists. For intelligent people recognize this in themselves, it is all about self reflection.

 

[highland145]

Alas I'm not Elvis, but my mate is Buddy Holly, I could get you an autograph if you fancy?

Sweet. In for one.

Wait.


You're the Big Bopper

 

[HAL9000]

Sweet. In for one.

Wait.


You're the Big Bopper

Ohhh Baby.

That's what I like!

 

[frostedflakes]

This is fine and dandy and I agree.. but we have problems when the governments forget there is supposed to be a separation of church and state and push those beliefs on the populace.


the USA is not the only guilty party here when it comes to that either..

Therein lies the problem, so many people can't help but let their silly beliefs influence public policy (trying to force creationism in schools for example and similar nonsense).

Although I think people overreact about a lot of this stuff as well. For example In God We Trust being on our money falls under the "seriously, who gives a shit?" category for me. Yet some atheists whine and moan to no extent about meaningless crap like this.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

There is no evidence that war and strife will be completely eliminated with the eradication of religion. Violence and suffering can stem from numerous things. Racism for example, has little roots in religion but more from a fear of the unfamiliar and upbringing. Animosity always seems to exist even today between the wealth classes.

To have a chance of completely eliminating hate and violence the biggest tool you can use is proper education of the masses. Unfortunately the dispersion of knowledge is directly tied to distribution of wealth. A free public school education these days (or if ever) does not ensure that person will be free of his biases and ignorance. But the path to giving free university education to everyone in the country might come off as anti-Capitalist/ pro-Socialist. (University education by itself won't erase biases either but it helps.) As you can see from the constant heated debates that exist on this issue animosity can stem from almost anything. University education by itself won't erase biases either but it helps.

North Korea is a perfect example. A state free of religion (unless you consider the ruling party as the church of Kim Il-Sung) but is a threat to the peace of the world. The problem is the ruling class has all the education and knowledge of the world while the general public is left in the dark. Religion isn't the only thing that can be used to control people.

NK isn't religion free. There are catholic, christian, protestant churches in NK. Some are even run by the state (most likely for propaganda though)

Their constitution also says that NK population have the freedom of religion and can build places of worship if they want. At the same time, they also state that religion cannot be used to drag in outside powers or destroy the state.

But of course, christianity is suppressed not because of religious reasons, but because it has close ties to the western world, which NK does away with on every level. But other religions are usually fine

 

[bamacre]

No I don't. but I do know that people do sometimes improve or even survive diseases like cancer based on a placebo effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Thomas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Jude_Children's_Research_Hospital

 

[AstroManLuca]

It's neither good nor bad. The good and bad things humans do is all part of human nature. People can do good things in the name of religion or just because they are good people. They can do bad things in the name of religion or just because they are bad people.

 

[Paladin3]

Better you should ask "IS MANKIND GOOD OR EVIL?"

For in the end, what matters religion, science, philosophy, technology, society, law, culture, etc., without of mankind's desire to use them for good or evil? Debating the good or evil of our constructs does not relieve us from responsibility for our choices and actions.

And I would hope that if we do debate religion that we differentiate between true Christianity and other religions being use to justify evil actions. Too often people find fault with all religion by pointing to those perverting it, and often specifically to non-Christians who practice violent forms of religion. Christ taught his followers to love your fellow man, to turn the other cheek, to be charitable, humble and non-judgmental. I can find no fault with those who follow Christ's teachings.