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Is RedHat deliberately CRIPPLING Linux?

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Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
You people just don't know how to argue,... and get real upset when beaten fair and square.
Click to expand...

I think you should go and take a starter course in debating as you're obviously new to this intarweb thing.

See, I can use formatting codes too! :roll:
 
Hey john, go back a page and answer my list of questions please. Or are you ignoring anything that won't help your position, like the facts?
 
Hey john, go back a page and answer my list of questions please. Or are you ignoring anything that won't help your position, like the facts?
Click to expand...

Don't worry, he'll never answer them. He's intentionally ignored a bunch of my questions as well.
 
It may not be all server environments. At work, ALL of our machines are running Linux, including all the workstations (well, there are a couple of W2K boxes, but those are employees who brought their own in). They're all Fedora Core, without mp3 or DVD playback.
 
Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Originally posted by: fisher
i don't even run linux, but i can clearly see you are a raving lunatic. what part of "red hat appeals to the server crowd" are you not understanding?
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What part of "servers do not need a graphics environment" are you not understanding,.... you raving lunatic.

As we all know, running a graphics environment is a security risk for a server.

Yet Redhat ships with a functional graphics environment.

I am sure they must be on the verge of removing it, so that your comment will make a minimal amount of sense.

Till then, it is just evidence that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

X11 is less of a security risk than Apache.
 
n0cmonkey:

especially when you have X installed but only run at init 3(on a RH box). So X is there is you want to use it via ssh on cygwin-X or if you need to sit down and start the X server to fix something that is turkeyed up.

I hvae found this to be an interesting converstation to watch the last day or two, as I can see both sides of the debate (if that is what you want to call it).

No RedHat and many other distros do not support mp3 out of the box, why? licensing. Is it a PITA? yes. Will it stop me from using linux on my workstation? No. Do I enable mp3 playback on servers at work? No. Why? cause the network nazis would find the rpm (it is one that they look for on the security scan) and then I would have to explain why it is there.

Different uses for different folks. JohnBernstein- get over yourself and realize that you are not RHs "customer" and move on to the next accident scene.

Panther505
 
Originally posted by: Looney
It may not be all server environments. At work, ALL of our machines are running Linux, including all the workstations (well, there are a couple of W2K boxes, but those are employees who brought their own in). They're all Fedora Core, without mp3 or DVD playback.
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So how many of these servers are running the X-graphics environment?

Let me guess -- ZERO.
 
Josh,

if you're concrened about multi-media and Linux then buy Linspire. I believe they have MP3 and DVD codecs.

if you're concerned about a stable server Linux system, then buy Red Hat (or Debian, Slackware, etc).

Ok?
 
To boil it all down, the predominant argument so far, amounts to this:

Many of you funny people say: Redhat includes the X-graphics environment because it is useful to various people (for example, the installers of Oracle (X itself is not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

I say: Redhat should include MP3 support because it is useful to various people (for example, developers will often refuse to work without music (MP3s themselves are not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.

---------------------------------------------

And I am still waiting for drag to back up his claims,....

Originally posted by: drag
What sort of credentials do you have other then a website that is a sub-par website that is little more then copy-paste from other people's websites?
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Hey NOT **** TRUE

All of the Linux stuff is (essentially) original. Lots of ideas from other places of course, but not even close to cut and paste.

The closest to non-original are the Javascript movies which came from a few high quality 9/11 videos (of the collapse of the WTC buildings and the planes hitting the buildings etc) that are publicly available on the web --- but they were originally videos, not Javascript movies.

In fact the 9/11 videos came from this page

http://linux.coconia.net/gr/523.htm

which I had to salvage from Google as the original site "went missing".
Click to expand...
 
To boil it all down, the predominant argument so far, amounts to this:

Many of you funny people say: Redhat includes the X-graphics environment because it is useful to various people (for example, the installers of Oracle (X itself is not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

I say: Redhat should include MP3 support because it is useful to various people (for example, developers will often refuse to work without music (MP3s themselves are not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.
Click to expand...

Slow down and think about this for a second. Oracle is installed directly on the server. The Oracle installer requires X to run. Therefore X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable.

Developers work from their desktops, not from the server console. Developers desktops should be the ones playing the MP3s, otherwise the operators in the server room will hear the music and not the developer. If your developers are working directly on the console of the server, you have more issues than just the lack of an MP3 player.

It's obvious that you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, so this will be my last post in this thread.
 
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Slow down and think about this for a second. Oracle is installed directly on the server. The Oracle installer requires X to run. Therefore X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable.
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I don't think you understand.

Whether or not X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable is not even relevant to the argument. Not at all relevant. Are you deliberately being "slow" about this?

It might be relevant if you claimed that the X-server always ran on the server, but even then, its relevance is not clear.

It really boils down to this:

Many of you funny people say: Redhat includes the X-graphics environment because it is useful to various people (for example, the installers of Oracle (X itself is not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

I say: Redhat should include MP3 support because it is useful to various people (for example, developers will often refuse to work without music (MP3s themselves are not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.
 
John,

Instead of being defensive, maybe you should take a step back from this thread. Your attitude is coming across very badly and only takes a MOD to look at this thread and decide you need another 1 month vacation.

Joe
 


Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Slow down and think about this for a second. Oracle is installed directly on the server. The Oracle installer requires X to run. Therefore X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand.

Whether or not X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable is not even relevant to the argument. Not at all relevant. Are you deliberately being "slow" about this?

It might be relevant if you claimed that the X-server always ran on the server, but even then, its relevance is not clear.

It really boils down to this:

Many of you funny people say: Redhat includes the X-graphics environment because it is useful to various people (for example, the installers of Oracle (X itself is not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

I say: Redhat should include MP3 support because it is useful to various people (for example, developers will often refuse to work without music (MP3s themselves are not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.
Click to expand...

Oracle requires X to install, so you need X to install oracle. It's a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY.

Oracle is for servers

MP3'S are NOT a requirement to coding....last I checked, my gcc worked just fine with and without MP3 support. Are you claiming that mp3 support is a requirement for a development enviorment?

Now, go back and answer my questions please...unless you fear answering specific points.
 
Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Slow down and think about this for a second. Oracle is installed directly on the server. The Oracle installer requires X to run. Therefore X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand.

Whether or not X needs to be installed on the server for Oracle to be be installable is not even relevant to the argument. Not at all relevant. Are you deliberately being "slow" about this?

It might be relevant if you claimed that the X-server always ran on the server, but even then, its relevance is not clear.

It really boils down to this:

Many of you funny people say: Redhat includes the X-graphics environment because it is useful to various people (for example, the installers of Oracle (X itself is not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

I say: Redhat should include MP3 support because it is useful to various people (for example, developers will often refuse to work without music (MP3s themselves are not run on servers however)) and people will buy Redhat because of this.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.
Click to expand...

If I ever see a pair of speakers hooked up to a quad dual-core system in a 50,000sq foot server room, I'll donate some money to the NTFS-FUSE people instead of agreeing with Patrick V(olkerding).

Most servers don't need mp3 support. I can only think of one reason why a server would need mp3 support, and chances are the people doing that will need to add other third party applications anyhow, so adding mp3 support shouldn't be a problem.
 
Originally posted by: nweaver
Oracle requires X to install, so you need X to install oracle. It's a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY.
Click to expand...
Let me just call you "slow".

The fact that you need the X-graphics environment (on the terminal that you use to install to the server) from does not imply that the X-server GENERALLY runs on the server.

IT DOESN'T.

You got that now?

Running an X-graphics environment on a server is security risk and is not done (unless you are an amateur and run your server from your basement).

Point to remember.

Running an X-server at install does not mean the X-server runs forever on the server.

2nd point to remember.

It's NOT a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY to have an X-server running on your server (contrary to what you say).

Originally posted by: nweaver
Oracle requires X to install, so you need X to install oracle. It's a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY.
Click to expand...
Redhat requires X because Oracle requires X to install.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.

Redhat requires MP3 because MyCommercialMP3StudioEditor requires MP3 support to function.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.

And you challenged folk can't even see that this is a massive disconnect in your thinking.
 
Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Originally posted by: nweaver
Oracle requires X to install, so you need X to install oracle. It's a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY.
Click to expand...
Let me just call you "slow".

The fact that you need the X-graphics environment (on the terminal that you use to install to the server) from does not imply that the X-server GENERALLY runs on the server.

IT DOESN'T.

You got that now?

Running an X-graphics environment on a server is security risk and is not done (unless you are an amateur and run your server from your basement).

Point to remember.

Running an X-server at install does not mean the X-server runs forever on the server.

2nd point to remember.

It's NOT a REQUIRED DEPENDANCY to have an X-server running on your server (contrary to what you say).
Click to expand...

X is not as much of a risk on a server as the services that server is providing. Running X does nothing but take up a couple of megs of ram, and I've seen it running on plenty of enterprise servers.
 
Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Running an X-server on a production server is an extra unnecessary risk.
Where have you seen such enterprise servers? Your basement?
Click to expand...


If you say running X-server on a production server is an unnecessary risk, then why are you advocating MP3 support to be included with Redhat? MP3 support is also an unnecessary risk. There might be a flaw in the MP3 parsing libraries.
 
Originally posted by: JohnBernstein
Redhat requires X because Oracle requires X to install.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS GOOD.
Click to expand...

Right. Servers will run Oracle. Oracle is designed to run on servers, and those servers require X.

Redhat requires MP3 because MyCommercialMP3StudioEditor requires MP3 support to function.

YOU SAY THIS ARGUMENT IS BAD.
Click to expand...

That is right. WORKSTATIONS run MyCommercialMP3StudioEditor. MyCommercialMP3StudioEditor is designed to work on WORKSTATIONS, and those WORKSTATIONS require MP3 Support.

If Redhat makes a Server distro of Linux then obviously they will include what is useful for someone running a server (like X for Oracle) and not something for an amateur that runs their server from their basement (like MP3 Support).

Sounds to me like you are not the customer base that Redhat wants to make a product for.
 
Johnny, you still have failed to answer my list of questions from page 2, and I still think that MP3's arn't needed on my server.
 
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