Is Rape Off Limits for Jokes?

[Moonbeam]

Norm MacDonald can make anything funny:

"I was watching Ted Koppel the other night, and he said the most disappointing thing about Cosby, is the hypocrisy."
<beat>
"No, you know? ...Actually, I think the most disappointing thing about Cosby is the rape. There was a lot of rape. I uh, I really think the rape was the most disappointing thing, there"

I have spent the last ten minutes or so thinking about this and I'm not done yet. Thanks.

 

[woolfe9998]

I don't think it's too much of a shock. When women talk about rape culture, they're talking about a society that seems to have no problems trivializing rape in many forms, whether it's jokes or celebrating when women teachers take advantage of underage boys. If you're going to convince men it's not okay to rape drunk women, you need to make it clear that trivializing rape is unacceptable in any form, including jokes about men.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. She's being consistent on the point. But feminists are not known to often point out double standards which may be harmful to men. Which is why I give her kudos.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't think it's too much of a shock. When women talk about rape culture, they're talking about a society that seems to have no problems trivializing rape in many forms, whether it's jokes or celebrating when women teachers take advantage of underage boys. If you're going to convince men it's not okay to rape drunk women, you need to make it clear that trivializing rape is unacceptable in any form, including jokes about men.

By that fucking retarded logic (or rather, the lack there of) then I guess we can stop all murders if we stop joking about it as well?

Newsflash: No one hears a rape joke and says "Well, society laughed at that - I guess that means it's okay". That is right up there with fucking retarded nutjobs that blame violent videogames. Most people here grew up playing games as nerds, so I would hope you can make the connection to realize how fucking retarded you sound.

 

[HomerJS]

Nothing is off limits for comedy

 

[Commodus]

By that fucking retarded logic (or rather, the lack there of) then I guess we can stop all murders if we stop joking about it as well?

I didn't say we could stop all rape by stopping jokes about it. Please, drop the hyperbolic schtick. Rather, it's part of a larger puzzle. If you're going to create a cultural stigma against rape, that means creating an environment where it's not okay to make light of such a traumatic experience, especially when there may be victims watching. Remember, we live in a society where many people genuinely believe that victims 'earn' rape through innocent behavior, or give people high-fives for rape in the 'right' circumstances. Where do you think they got those ideas?

 

[Zorba]

I didn't say we could stop all rape by stopping jokes about it. Please, drop the hyperbolic schtick. Rather, it's part of a larger puzzle. If you're going to create a cultural stigma against rape, that means creating an environment where it's not okay to make light of such a traumatic experience, especially when there may be victims watching. Remember, we live in a society where many people genuinely believe that victims 'earn' rape through innocent behavior, or give people high-fives for rape in the 'right' circumstances. Where do you think they got those ideas?

You don't think rapist are stigmatized in the US?

 

[Commodus]

You don't think rapist are stigmatized in the US?

They are and they aren't.

The vast majority of people know it's wrong on a basic level. But we still have guys who casually make rape jokes, who say a woman was "asking for it" if she work racy clothing, who shout "nice" when they hear of a woman teacher raping a student... and then there's the politicians. You know, the ones who believe there are different levels of rape, or believe a rapist should have a say over a woman's abortion.

Basically: it's this notion that rape is somehow excusable in certain circumstances, or that someone's desire to laugh is more important than treating victims with respect.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

They are and they aren't.

The vast majority of people know it's wrong on a basic level. But we still have guys who casually make rape jokes, who say a woman was "asking for it" if she work racy clothing, who shout "nice" when they hear of a woman teacher raping a student... and then there's the politicians. You know, the ones who believe there are different levels of rape, or believe a rapist should have a say over a woman's abortion.

Basically: it's this notion that rape is somehow excusable in certain circumstances, or that someone's desire to laugh is more important than treating victims with respect.

You're really, honestly going to sit here with a straight face and equate that men that make "rape jokes" are (by default through assumption) the same ones that say "women are asking for it" ?

Again, pull your head from your anus please, you might just see the light of rational thinking if you do so. You're right up there with the conservative retard politicians that equate violent videogames to shooting up schools. Your intelligence level is right at theirs you halfwit.

 

[Commodus]

You're really, honestly going to sit here with a straight face and equate that men that make "rape jokes" are (by default through assumption) the same ones that say "women are asking for it" ?

Again, pull your head from your anus please, you might just see the light of rational thinking if you do so. You're right up there with the conservative retard politicians that equate violent videogames to shooting up schools. Your intelligence level is right at theirs you halfwit.

I'm not saying they're the exact same ones. It's part of a pervasive culture where people shrug off rape and then wonder why the more extreme people among them feel it's 'okay' to slip a roofie into someone's drink or corner a person on the street until they give their phone number.

I don't believe that rape jokes make people rape, nor do I think video games instigate violence. In the case of the jokes, I think it's more that they can (not that they always do) greenlight impulses a person already had. Between that and other circumstances, it creates this aura of permissibility where people who were already thinking about it don't have the barriers that should remind them it's an abhorrent act.

Also, please don't lecture me about low intelligence while using childish insults. You want to make a convincing case? Act like a goddamned adult.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm not saying they're the exact same ones. It's part of a pervasive culture where people shrug off rape and then wonder why the more extreme people among them feel it's 'okay' to slip a roofie into someone's drink or corner a person on the street until they give their phone number.

I don't believe that rape jokes make people rape, nor do I think video games instigate violence. In the case of the jokes, I think it's more that they can (not that they always do) greenlight impulses a person already had. Between that and other circumstances, it creates this aura of permissibility where people who were already thinking about it don't have the barriers that should remind them it's an abhorrent act.

Also, please don't lecture me about low intelligence while using childish insults. You want to make a convincing case? Act like a goddamned adult.

I've never fucking heard of ANYONE that has vocalized that they think it's 'okay' to slip a roofie to anyone. No one. No one has ever fucking done that - And you know you're full of shit because you've never heard of such either. It doesn't exist, it's the equivalent to big-foot and the boogie man.

I don't believe that rape jokes make people rape, nor do I think video games instigate violence. In the case of the jokes, I think it's more that they can (not that they always do) greenlight impulses a person already had.

Again, you're INSTIGATING that rape jokes do these things. You literally said "In the case of jokes, I think it's.... greenlight impulses a person already had"... Which is basically exactly what I was saying previously that made you look retarded. It's as if a person is sitting at a table at a comedy club saying "Man, I would really like to rape a woman - if only I had some kind of external confirmation to indicate that it is acceptable like a joke or something".

Seriously, seek mental help. Your intelligence level is right at those that you proclaim to mock with Trump supporters. I've made valid arguments all around. You will never see me simply reply with nothing but an insult.

 

[zinfamous]

Nothing is off limits for comedy

This

This rapist was honored with becoming the Textbook Example of RAPE

Now THAT's funny!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

This

This rapist was honored with becoming the Textbook Example of RAPE

Now THAT's funny!

And good - fuck that stupid moron for finding it acceptable - along with his dad that should be burned right alongside him. If anything he should be defined under "rape double standards" for being rich.

 

[TheVrolok]

I don't think anything should be off limits from comedy. Gervais has said it fairly well if one wants to Google it. (as have many comedians, I think Birbiglia has said it fairly well also).

 

[WelshBloke]

I've never fucking heard of ANYONE that has vocalized that they think it's 'okay' to slip a roofie to anyone. No one. No one has ever fucking done that - And you know you're full of shit because you've never heard of such either. It doesn't exist, it's the equivalent to big-foot and the boogie man.

WTF. Some people obviously think it's ok to do that because it fucking happens! Just because they aren't talking to you about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Commodus]

I've never fucking heard of ANYONE that has vocalized that they think it's 'okay' to slip a roofie to anyone. No one. No one has ever fucking done that - And you know you're full of shit because you've never heard of such either. It doesn't exist, it's the equivalent to big-foot and the boogie man.



Again, you're INSTIGATING that rape jokes do these things. You literally said "In the case of jokes, I think it's.... greenlight impulses a person already had"... Which is basically exactly what I was saying previously that made you look retarded. It's as if a person is sitting at a table at a comedy club saying "Man, I would really like to rape a woman - if only I had some kind of external confirmation to indicate that it is acceptable like a joke or something".

Seriously, seek mental help. Your intelligence level is right at those that you proclaim to mock with Trump supporters. I've made valid arguments all around. You will never see me simply reply with nothing but an insult.

I'm not going to take lectures from someone who claims to be more intelligent but can't go five minutes without calling someone "retarded" and suggesting that they're mentally ill for daring to disagree. You want to take the moral high ground? Act like it.

Besides, it's simple: do you want to make the world a slightly better place for rape victims? Don't tell rape jokes. Whether or not you think it contributes to rape culture, your desire to get a laugh is not more important than someone else's trauma.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

WTF. Some people obviously think it's ok to do that because it fucking happens! Just because they aren't talking to you about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Citation Required]

Please provide any source of evidence that anyone at anytime said that roofeing a girl is an acceptable action.

I'm waiting.

[Protip: You can't because it never happened. Much in line with @Commodus answer which was nothing. He answered nothing because as I said - it has never fucking happened. No matter how much you keep telling yourself that it has happened... it hasn't.]

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm not going to take lectures from someone who claims to be more intelligent but can't go five minutes without calling someone "retarded" and suggesting that they're mentally ill for daring to disagree. You want to take the moral high ground? Act like it.

Besides, it's simple: do you want to make the world a slightly better place for rape victims? Don't tell rape jokes. Whether or not you think it contributes to rape culture, your desire to get a laugh is not more important than someone else's trauma.

You don't make the world a better place by making it more politically correct. Quite the opposite, actually.

You won't take lectures from someone that calls you retarded because you have no retort to my points. Not surprising to say the least. I have no problem calling people out in a negative way when you act like a 2 year old. You act like a 2 year old when you start claiming that videogames cause violence - or that stand-up comedy creates rapists. Both are right up there with stupidity levels that are only matched by our current President.

 

[Commodus]

You don't make the world a better place by making it more politically correct. Quite the opposite, actually.

You won't take lectures from someone that calls you retarded because you have no retort to my points. Not surprising to say the least. I have no problem calling people out in a negative way when you act like a 2 year old. You act like a 2 year old when you start claiming that videogames cause violence - or that stand-up comedy creates rapists. Both are right up there with stupidity levels that are only matched by our current President.

No, I have plenty of retorts to your points; it's just that your points are facile, straw man arguments. You routinely ignore what I actually said, and put words in my mouth that I didn't say. I did not claim that video games cause violence, or that stand-up comedy creates rapists. I did not say these rapists vocalize their intentions. Repeat these statements until you understand that they are completely true, and that you will never question them again.

There are many, many, many incidents of men clearly feeling it was okay to slip women roofies. Just earlier this week I was reading Reddit accounts of multiple attempts, including one by a bartender. They aren't vocalizing their intentions (I will repeat: I never said they did), they just don't see a problem with rape.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Besides, it's simple: do you want to make the world a slightly better place for rape victims? Don't tell rape jokes. Whether or not you think it contributes to rape culture, your desire to get a laugh is not more important than someone else's trauma.

Jesus Christ 🙄

Ill have to give out trigger warnings when I say one. Have you ever known a rape victim? I have, was married to one. Very traumatic for her but she’d joke about it.

 

[UglyCasanova]

No, I have plenty of retorts to your points; it's just that your points are facile, straw man arguments. You routinely ignore what I actually said, and put words in my mouth that I didn't say. I did not claim that video games cause violence, or that stand-up comedy creates rapists. I did not say these rapists vocalize their intentions. Repeat these statements until you understand that they are completely true, and that you will never question them again.

There are many, many, many incidents of men clearly feeling it was okay to slip women roofies. Just earlier this week I was reading Reddit accounts of multiple attempts, including one by a bartender. They aren't vocalizing their intentions (I will repeat: I never said they did), they just don't see a problem with rape.

What does that have to do with making jokes? I used to make jokes about dead babies but we all knew shoveling with pitchforks was wrong. It didn’t contribute to a baby mutter culture.

 

[HomerJS]

ANYTHING can be joked about. It's all about context.

People in the forum constantly bitch about PC and double standards. A very funny bit was a white comedian making ni**er jokes. It can be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkCztQhPvY

BTW - Big difference between this and Michael Richards

 

[Atreus21]

So I watch pretty much any political comedy show that is out there - I definitely catch every Bill Maher, and every John Oliver. Hands down the best 2 by a long shot.

But I also tend to give the others a chance. I tried the new daily show after Jon Stewart left. I gave it a good month - but after weeks of not getting a single laugh in any episodes other than 1 or 2 "heh", I realized the show really went down the crapper. That's how I feel now with Samantha Bee's show. I gave it a chance - and it was actually initially kind of funny. But they went down the politically correct rabbit hole - and episodes like this latest one is a perfect example.

Samantha did a segment this week on rape - specifically actually, male rape. But her main point wasn't raising awareness really. Her main point in about 75% of the segment was simply a message of "Raep is NOT Funnay!1!1oen!!". The irony is that she quoted rape jokes from other TV shows (including one from Bill Maher) - I laughed at those more than her stupid jokes.

So that brings me to the question for P&N. Are rape jokes off-limits? I'm not talking specifics - I don't care if it's a male - female, male on male, female on female... Doesn't matter to me. I evaluate jokes based simply on if they are funny or not. Mostly because I'm not a politically correct retard, and I actually prefer to enjoy life instead of always trying to find ways to be offended.

If I recall, there have also been studies showing that joking about an ordeal is actually healthy for recovery.

If it's not off limits for romance fiction, then it's okay for comedy.

 

[Commodus]

Jesus Christ 🙄

Ill have to give out trigger warnings when I say one. Have you ever known a rape victim? I have, was married to one. Very traumatic for her but she’d joke about it.

I'm glad she could deal with that, but that doesn't mean it's okay to assume everyone else is as resilient. You know as well as I do that there are victims who won't find humor in it, and are entirely justified in feeling that way. And if you're wondering... yes, I do know rape (and sexual assault) victims. They don't find these jokes funny at all.

I'm thick-skinned, but here's the simple reality: if you respect rape victims (and you aren't the victim), you don't make rape jokes. It's just a matter of being considerate of other people. It's no different than avoiding jokes about dead children when you're talking to grieving parents.

And I know you had another reply, but I feel like I'm getting into the weeds. I really just want to focus on "not being an insensitive jerk" as a good reason to avoid rape jokes.

 

[Zorba]

They are and they aren't.

The vast majority of people know it's wrong on a basic level. But we still have guys who casually make rape jokes, who say a woman was "asking for it" if she work racy clothing, who shout "nice" when they hear of a woman teacher raping a student... and then there's the politicians. You know, the ones who believe there are different levels of rape, or believe a rapist should have a say over a woman's abortion.

Basically: it's this notion that rape is somehow excusable in certain circumstances, or that someone's desire to laugh is more important than treating victims with respect.

There are different levels of rape, that is why the law defines multiple levels of rape.

A 23 year old teacher having fully consensual sex with a 17 year old student that isn't even her student in a state with an age of consent of 16, is completely and utterly different than a women being forcibly raped and beaten at gun point. It blows my mind that the "anti-rape culture" people try to equate the two.

From a legal prospective, unless a teacher is actually using their power over the kid to get them in the sack I don't give a shit as long as the kid is over age of consent. From a professional point of view, they should be fired.

But even the hot 23 year old teachers are stigmatized in the US. They lose their jobs, they lose their license, I think most go to jail, people openly ask WTF is wrong with, etc. It's the victims that aren't always treated like victims.

 

[Zorba]

What does that have to do with making jokes? I used to make jokes about dead babies but we all knew shoveling with pitchforks was wrong. It didn’t contribute to a baby mutter culture.

My dad died when I was in elementary school, and I used to make jokes about it a lot. Other people would get offended and tell me I needed to be respectful (I guess of my own loss). Some people tell jokes to heal. Funeral in my family have more laughter than many comedy clubs.