Is racism really so difficult to define?

[s0me0nesmind1]

Stereotypes are very often not even remotely true.

statistically true.

There are always exceptions.

And you're right, some stereotypes aren't always true. But there are plenty that are statistically true. The Olympics having the same people winning gold medals in running and the same people winning gold medals in swimming isn't just some weird coincidence.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is a distinction between institutional racism and racists. I have wounds from racists that didn't like the color of my skin, but that's different from having to use the back of the bus.

 

[HomerJS]

Like any other definition we have learned things over time. The old definition of burning crosses, wearing white hoods at rallys and calling black people ni**er is inadequate today.

Republicans have gotten smarter over time. Lee Atwater taught classes on the art of the dog whistle. Look it up yourself


Examples of racism I use, include but not limited to

Redlining in housing - overtly racist
Getting 50% fewer callbacks with similar CVs - systemic racism
Voter suppression - overtly and covertly racist
Telling a US citizen who is a POC "go back to your own country" - overtly racist
Harsher punishment by the CJS then the white populous for the same crime - systemic racism
Unique overt hostility towards POC - subtle racism.
Claiming a federal judge can't perform his duties because of his race - not so subtle racism
Throwing bananas at black athletes - overtly racist.

I would also acknowledge we have people here who think none of these are racist. I'm saying that from history not speculating.

 

[fskimospy]

statistically true.

There are always exceptions.

And you're right, some stereotypes aren't always true. But there are plenty that are statistically true. The Olympics having the same people winning gold medals in running and the same people winning gold medals in swimming isn't just some weird coincidence.

On a statistical level lots of stereotypes are untrue, especially because many of them are cultural holdovers from previous times that no longer apply. Second, stereotypes are often used to draw conclusions that are untrue.

For example when it comes to things like swimming it's not like white people are inherently better swimmers, it's a resource and culture thing. We use our own culture's resource choices to reinforce the wrong idea that those choices are the correct or necessary ones.

 

[Vic]

Racism has been watered down today. Today, if you speak critically (even citing facts) of some demographics and the left brands one a racist. Don't agree with a leftist narrative? Get branded a racist. This continued screaming of "racism!" at every turn will only make people numb to it, boy that cried wolf stuff.

Is it really speaking critically to spread obvious lies questioning the citizenship of only non-white persons? How many white persons have you said should be sent back because they don't agree with your right wing narrative?

 

[Vic]

So if I said black people are better at running, is that racist?


At a certain point some of it's just stereotyping... Which stereotypes exist for a reason, they are statistically true.

White Canadians tend to be better at hockey. Is it statistically true then to say that white people are better at hockey?

 

[glenn1]

On a statistical level lots of stereotypes are untrue, especially because many of them are cultural holdovers from previous times that no longer apply. Second, stereotypes are often used to draw conclusions that are untrue.

For example when it comes to things like swimming it's not like white people are inherently better swimmers, it's a resource and culture thing. We use our own culture's resource choices to reinforce the wrong idea that those choices are the correct or necessary ones.

The idea of racism sort of implies there is a point to it and is used to further some other ideological goal unlike prejudice or bigotry. I don’t really see where pointing out the fact that East Africans win the majority of marathon races advances some notion of white race superiority. It’s really a tremendous stretch to suggest that if statistically whites win more swimming competitions, that means whites should enjoy the privilege of being world controllers and subject the other races to second class citizenship.

 

[Mai72]

The problem is that the issues of racism are immediate and far reaching. We can't afford the long view on such despicable behavior. You don't get much more "overt" than the POTUS making it mainstream. It's been 250 mf years! We need to end this shit now.

I don't think it's ever going to be completely eradicated. But, with the internet young people seem to be evolving for the better. People of different colors and cultures are comingling more which is great. We still have a very very long way to go, but it seems that much of the racisim is coming from the over 50 crowd. Under 50, it's less likely. It's just that things that are acceptable today, wasn't acceptable 40 years ago. It's all based on fear. Being afraid. Having your beliefs challenged. Trump should be ashamed. I doubt he feels the same.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The idea of racism sort of implies there is a point to it and is used to further some other ideological goal unlike prejudice or bigotry. I don’t really see where pointing out the fact that East Africans win the majority of marathon races advances some notion of white race superiority. It’s really a tremendous stretch to suggest that if statistically whites win more swimming competitions, that means whites should enjoy the privilege of being world controllers and subject the other races to second class citizenship.

On top of that, it isn't really a skin color thing. It's a superior genetics sort of thing. It often correlates with skin color, but the fact is simply that they have superior genetics as they relate to legs, muscles, endurance, etc...

Just as other demographics have inferior genetics and are more prone to different diseases than others.

 

[Vic]

It's overall not a dumb statement. It's a large problem that when it comes to debating issues, solving problems, etc... certain groups seem to want to stick their heads in the sand and go la-la-la-la you're just racist therefore your argument is invalid!

And then there are certain groups that seem to want to make excessively overgeneralizing emotion-based accusations (always about other groups and never about themselves), that do nothing to solve any problems and instead create more divisiveness, and then can't understand why people get frustrated with their stupid self-serving bullshit.

 

[HomerJS]

The idea of racism sort of implies there is a point to it and is used to further some other ideological goal unlike prejudice or bigotry. I don’t really see where pointing out the fact that East Africans win the majority of marathon races advances some notion of white race superiority. It’s really a tremendous stretch to suggest that if statistically whites win more swimming competitions, that means whites should enjoy the privilege of being world controllers and subject the other races to second class citizenship.

Pointing out whites win more swimming competitions and east Africans win most marathons isn't racist because there isn't a nefarious conclusion about the groups in those examples. Go back and look up Jimmy the Greeks quote about back athletes and their slave history. That was not racist.

When you drop a bomb blacks commit more crime based on their percentage of the population then others suggests blacks are inherently criminal. I've pointed out upper middle and upper class blacks don't have a crime rate higher then whites.

 

[Vic]

The idea of racism sort of implies there is a point to it and is used to further some other ideological goal unlike prejudice or bigotry. I don’t really see where pointing out the fact that East Africans win the majority of marathon races advances some notion of white race superiority. It’s really a tremendous stretch to suggest that if statistically whites win more swimming competitions, that means whites should enjoy the privilege of being world controllers and subject the other races to second class citizenship.

Except he didn't point out that East Africans win the majority of marathon races. He said black people tend to be better at running. You see the difference, right?
Also, I don't believe anyone said that either statement is racist, just that the latter statement, which was used to justify stereotypes, is in fact an inaccurate overgeneralization.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

For example when it comes to things like swimming it's not like white people are inherently better swimmers, it's a resource and culture thing. We use our own culture's resource choices to reinforce the wrong idea that those choices are the correct or necessary ones.

Or no...

No it's not. But keep telling yourself things to make you feel better. It has to do with torso length. Just like running, it's a genetics thing.

https://www.witpress.com/Secure/ejournals/papers/D&NE050301f.pdf

 

[Vic]

Pointing out whites win more swimming competitions and east Africans win most marathons isn't racist because there isn't a nefarious conclusion about the groups in those examples. Go back and look up Jimmy the Greeks quote about back athletes and their slave history. That was not racist.

When you drop a bomb blacks commit more crime based on their percentage of the population then others suggests blacks are inherently criminal. I've pointed out upper middle and upper class blacks don't have a crime rate higher then whites.

Exactly. And poor whites tend to commit crimes at a similar rate as poor blacks, but when white people commit crime, you don't see any public outcry about how the white community needs to something about it, or how white culture was the cause of it.
White Christians have also committed heinous acts of terrorism too, but you don't the President calling for a ban on Christians until we can figure that out.

Some people need to stop and ask themselves: is it really thinking critically to paint the outside world with such a broad brush? How is it not racist to blame all black people ("the black community") for the crimes committed by a small minority of black people? Especially if you don't blame all white people for any crime committed by a white person? How is it not bigoted to blame an entire religion for the acts of terrorism committed by a relative few within that religion, especially when you would never consider doing that to your own religion under the same circumstances?

We have some people here claiming they are thinking critically when it is easily self-evident that they are not. They claim our heads are in the sand about other people when their heads are in the sand about themselves.

 

[Juiblex]

I like conversations like these, but ultimately they turn into a "you're racist" when you dig a little bit deeper into a scenario then a one liner.

Take for example. Here is a common one. White police officers shooting young black males. You know, the origination of the Black Lives Matter movement. Does it look like racism? Sure. It does.
On the surface, but what nobody wants to talk about is why this dynamic exists in the first place.

Why are cops more prone to shoot up at that demographic?
These happen in the inner city, most of all, with young black males? They join gangs. They carry weapons. Ok. Now cops are generally running into young black males who 1) Don't care about laws and commit crimes, 2) Carry weapons around, 3) and if Chicago is any indication, very willing to use them.
How many young white males are in these gangs? A lot less, if any at all.

Is that going to cause the police to treat young black males differently than young white males? I certainly hope so...

Is that racism or a cause and effect situation? The cause: Young Black Males in gangs committing crimes, carrying weapons, and killing people. The effect: Police are more "nervous" around that type and more prone to shoot them.

Do innocent blacks become a victim of that? Yes! But in my opinion who is responsible for fixing that dynamic? Should the cops treat blacks differently just on race? No... That's racism. Very simply, blacks need to keep their children out of gangs and they need to hold each other accountable. Like shunning those who do, or cutting them off from the family, etc. Ultimately, these kids need to stop or it will continue to repeat for eternity. That is the only answer to solving police officers from shooting up young black males. You know the saying "You made your bed, now you need to lie in it." That exists here. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. When a people decide to create a hell hole, you are going to have the results of said hell hole. Do something about it. I keep hearing people Vic above saying "a small minority of black people". I'm sorry but a small minority of black people who are joining gangs may not be as small as you believe. If it has caused this ripple effect, then maybe open your eyes and realize its not a small minority. It's not just racism here. Who are the ones with their heads in the sand? If whites joined gangs, commited crimes, and killed each other in a similar style as the black community, we'd also have the same dynamic, but the simple fact is... It just doesn't exist.

 

[fskimospy]

Or no...

No it's not. But keep telling yourself things to make you feel better.

It doesn't make me feel any better or any worse, is this an emotional thing for you or something? It's certainly not for me.

It has to do with torso length. Just like running, it's a genetics thing.

https://www.witpress.com/Secure/ejournals/papers/D&NE050301f.pdf

I'm sure genetics plays some part in it but I'm also very confident that selection bias due to cultural factors and resource availability plays a far larger factor. After all there's a reason why America has such a small percentage of the top soccer players in the world and it has zero to do with genetics.

 

[fskimospy]

I like conversations like these, but ultimately they turn into a "you're racist" when you dig a little bit deeper into a scenario then a one liner.

Take for example. Here is a common one. White police officers shooting young black males. You know, the origination of the Black Lives Matter movement. Does it look like racism? Sure. It does.
On the surface, but what nobody wants to talk about is why this dynamic exists in the first place.

Why are cops more prone to shoot up at that demographic?
These happen in the inner city, most of all, with young black males? They join gangs. They carry weapons. Ok. Now cops are generally running into young black males who 1) Don't care about laws and commit crimes, 2) Carry weapons around, 3) and if Chicago is any indication, very willing to use them.
How many young white males are in these gangs? A lot less, if any at all.

Is that going to cause the police to treat young black males differently than young white males? I certainly hope so...

Is that racism or a cause and effect situation? The cause: Young Black Males in gangs committing crimes, carrying weapons, and killing people. The effect: Police are more "nervous" around that type and more prone to shoot them.

Do innocent blacks become a victim of that? Yes! But in my opinion who is responsible for fixing that dynamic? Should the cops treat blacks differently just on race? No... That's racism. Very simply, blacks need to keep their children out of gangs and they need to hold each other accountable. Like shunning those who do, or cutting them off from the family, etc. Ultimately, these kids need to stop or it will continue to repeat for eternity. That is the only answer to solving police officers from shooting up young black males. You know the saying "You made your bed, now you need to lie in it." That exists here. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. When a people decide to create a hell hole, you are going to have the results of said hell hole. Do something about it. I keep hearing people Vic above saying "a small minority of black people". I'm sorry but a small minority of black people who are joining gangs may not be as small as you believe. If it has caused this ripple effect, then maybe open your eyes and realize its not a small minority. It's not just racism here. Who are the ones with their heads in the sand? If whites joined gangs, commited crimes, and killed each other in a similar style as the black community, we'd also have the same dynamic, but the simple fact is... It just doesn't exist.

You just made a post complaining about how you get called racist and then said that black people are to blame for police officers shooting them without cause due to some sort of collective responsibility they have by virtue of sharing a skin color.

Damn dude.

 

[Vic]

I like conversations like these, but ultimately they turn into a "you're racist" when you dig a little bit deeper into a scenario then a one liner.

Take for example. Here is a common one. White police officers shooting young black males. You know, the origination of the Black Lives Matter movement. Does it look like racism? Sure. It does.
On the surface, but what nobody wants to talk about is why this dynamic exists in the first place.

Why are cops more prone to shoot up at that demographic?
These happen in the inner city, most of all, with young black males? They join gangs. They carry weapons. Ok. Now cops are generally running into young black males who 1) Don't care about laws and commit crimes, 2) Carry weapons around, 3) and if Chicago is any indication, very willing to use them.
How many young white males are in these gangs? A lot less, if any at all.

Is that going to cause the police to treat young black males differently than young white males? I certainly hope so...

Is that racism or a cause and effect situation? The cause: Young Black Males in gangs committing crimes, carrying weapons, and killing people. The effect: Police are more "nervous" around that type and more prone to shoot them.

Do innocent blacks become a victim of that? Yes! But in my opinion who is responsible for fixing that dynamic? Should the cops treat blacks differently just on race? No... That's racism. Very simply, blacks need to keep their children out of gangs and they need to hold each other accountable. Like shunning those who do, or cutting them off from the family, etc. Ultimately, these kids need to stop or it will continue to repeat for eternity. That is the only answer to solving police officers from shooting up young black males. You know the saying "You made your bed, now you need to lie in it." That exists here. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. When a people decide to create a hell hole, you are going to have the results of said hell hole. Do something about it. I keep hearing people Vic above saying "a small minority of black people". I'm sorry but a small minority of black people who are joining gangs may not be as small as you believe. If it has caused this ripple effect, then maybe open your eyes and realize its not a small minority. It's not just racism here. Who are the ones with their heads in the sand? If whites joined gangs, commited crimes, and killed each other in a similar style as the black community, we'd also have the same dynamic, but the simple fact is... It just doesn't exist.

Except that those do exist. For example, Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, outlaw biker gangs trafficking drugs, violent white supremacist groups, anti-govt militia groups, and some ultra-radical Christian sects.
As I mentioned in the OP, when white groups protest the govt, it's freedom and patriotism. When minority groups protest the govt, there's a call for more law and order (or 'send them back'). The targeted law and order bit is what then leads to the dynamic you observed between police and minorities. If there was a 'law and order' crackdown on white people every time they protested the govt, you would see the same.

 

[fskimospy]

Except that those do exist. For example, Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, outlaw biker gangs trafficking drugs, violent white supremacist groups, anti-govt militia groups, and some ultra-radical Christian sects.
As I mentioned in the OP, when white groups protest the govt, it's freedom and patriotism. When minority groups protest the govt, there's a call for more law and order (or 'send them back'). The targeted law and order bit is what then leads to the dynamic you observed between police and minorities.

Exactly. Take the Bundy clan, people who violently took over federal property and freely/openly drew down on federal officials with semiautomatic rifles.

Do absolutely nothing other than change those to black people and does any sane person think the response would have been the same?

 

[brandonbull]

what a dum-dum

Great to have a subject matter expert weigh in.

 

[HomerJS]

I like conversations like these, but ultimately they turn into a "you're racist" when you dig a little bit deeper into a scenario then a one liner.

Take for example. Here is a common one. White police officers shooting young black males. You know, the origination of the Black Lives Matter movement. Does it look like racism? Sure. It does.
On the surface, but what nobody wants to talk about is why this dynamic exists in the first place.

Why are cops more prone to shoot up at that demographic?
These happen in the inner city, most of all, with young black males? They join gangs. They carry weapons. Ok. Now cops are generally running into young black males who 1) Don't care about laws and commit crimes, 2) Carry weapons around, 3) and if Chicago is any indication, very willing to use them.
How many young white males are in these gangs? A lot less, if any at all.

Is that going to cause the police to treat young black males differently than young white males? I certainly hope so...

Is that racism or a cause and effect situation? The cause: Young Black Males in gangs committing crimes, carrying weapons, and killing people. The effect: Police are more "nervous" around that type and more prone to shoot them.

Do innocent blacks become a victim of that? Yes! But in my opinion who is responsible for fixing that dynamic? Should the cops treat blacks differently just on race? No... That's racism. Very simply, blacks need to keep their children out of gangs and they need to hold each other accountable. Like shunning those who do, or cutting them off from the family, etc. Ultimately, these kids need to stop or it will continue to repeat for eternity. That is the only answer to solving police officers from shooting up young black males. You know the saying "You made your bed, now you need to lie in it." That exists here. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. When a people decide to create a hell hole, you are going to have the results of said hell hole. Do something about it. I keep hearing people Vic above saying "a small minority of black people". I'm sorry but a small minority of black people who are joining gangs may not be as small as you believe. If it has caused this ripple effect, then maybe open your eyes and realize its not a small minority. It's not just racism here. Who are the ones with their heads in the sand? If whites joined gangs, commited crimes, and killed each other in a similar style as the black community, we'd also have the same dynamic, but the simple fact is... It just doesn't exist.

As a professional you are not allowed to act out on your biases while on duty.

Using your example is is perfectly fine for police to arrest and detain kids of Hispanic origin, keep them locked up for days even though they had valid ID. After all its that kids fault he was arrested.

 

[HomerJS]

Exactly. Take the Bundy clan, people who violently took over federal property and freely/openly drew down on federal officials with semiautomatic rifles.

Do absolutely nothing other than change those to black people and does any sane person think the response would have been the same?

This is why the "racism doesn't exist" crowd are so full of shit. They are ok with white people taking up arms against law enforcement but god forbid some black people do the same? BTW - that how the US got gun control enacted in the 60s.

 

[fskimospy]

This is why the "racism doesn't exist" crowd are so full of shit. They are ok with white people taking up arms against law enforcement but god forbid some black people do the same? BTW - that how the US got gun control enacted in the 60s.

Yup. I think I've said it on here before. The #1 thing Democrats could do to get gun control passed is to pass a bill issuing every black person in the country a gun. There would be an immediate stampede of conservatives attempting to restrict gun rights.

 

[HomerJS]

Great to have a subject matter expert weigh in.

I notice this thread is littered with your intellectual reasoned input.

 

[Juiblex]

As a professional you are not allowed to act out on your biases while on duty.

Using your example is is perfectly fine for police to arrest and detain kids of Hispanic origin, keep them locked up for days even though they had valid ID. After all its that kids fault he was arrested.

It's fine for you to think that, and logically I agree with you. However, when you are that officer in a gang infested neighborhood, the fear will override the logic, and they will be more prone to shoot... Call it survival instinct or racism if you prefer. Its the same phenomena as civilians in war zones end up being shot sometimes even though they are not a threat. They just might be perceived at a threat due to the situation at hand and people panic. I blame the situation.