Is PSU insufficient? Random boot up problems

[RodrigoDiaz]

I have just assembled a new system based on an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium, including:

AMD 64 X2 4400
2 Gb (2x1Gb) RAM Samsung
ASUS 7900 GTX
WD Raptor 740
1 DVD drive + 1 DVDRW drive
Creative Audigy 2 ZS

Assembled on a Lian-Li case, powered by a brand new Seasonic S12-430. Everything seems to work fine, except for the fact that powering up is a bit of a gamble when it comes to awakening the keyboard (wired standard Microsoft), mouse (wired Razer Diamondback) or the Hard Drive.

Some times it boots up normally. Others the keyboard fails to be initiated during the boot up process and a restart solves the issue. Other times it's the mouse what fails to initialize, and then unpluging and re-pluging solves it. Or it may be the hard drive what fails to be recognized by the system as present. I've also noticed that sometimes the mouse or the keyboard do not shut down properly after shutting down Windows XP Pro. This is visible because they retain power even when the entire system is down (!!!???) (leds on the keyboard or the mouse remain lit).

Any clue what's happening here? I imagined that perhaps the random boot up problems were due to insufficient power or unstable voltage at startup. But the fact they may randomly remain ON after a system shut down? I'm a bit lost to say the truth...

I've been checking the voltage on the PSU rails with an ASUS bundled tool (PC Probe II) to see if they were off. All rails (+3.3, +5 and +12) seem to deliver voltage constantly under the required spec (approx 5-6% down), the 12V rail plounging sometimes to 11.41V. Although 5% seems to be within the ATX spec, I guess my cute silent Seasonic cannot cope with the system afterall (specially under surge/boot up situations). Am I right in my diagnosis?

I have ordered a new PSU with higher wattage to see if that resolves the issue, but it's a bit of a blind move. I figured that the wattage on my Seasonic was enough after checking the possible system power draw with the following tool:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

It's a tool which issues recommendations on PSU wattage on the basis of system components. In my case it reads 387 W maximum power draw (without surge or capacitator aging compensation), thus within the 430 W seasonic spec.

I am also wondering if features such as AMD Cool & Quiet (which mess up with voltage management of system components) would not play a role in these failures. I had Cool & Quiet enabled (plus the AMD X2 driver) for a while, but then disabled it in the BIOS to see if that could be the source of the problem. Used the bundled ASUS application instead (AI Booster), all set to auto. It seemed to work... At the beginning. But ther day after the symptoms appeared again.

My guess is that it's not temperature related as these failures appear, if at all, only at bootup. AI booster and Speedfan report normal temperature levels.

Any suggestions? I would appreciate any feedback you can provide.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[jonnyGURU]

Sounds like the motherboard is pooched.

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Thanks Jonny,

I didn't think of that, since the MB is also new. I suppose I'll try the PSU swap on Monday (since I've already ordered it anyway) and if it doesn't resolve the issue I'll take my Desktop down to the shop for a check up.

But what would you say about those voltage readings? Is it normal that they all remain constantly under the spec (5%)? Is it because I do my readings during idle/low charge periods? Dunno, but I had hoped better for a Seasonic PSU after all.

Cheerio!

 

[jonnyGURU]

Most PSU's under voltage, but your are too much under voltage. On the other hand, you're using software to get these readings so it's not very trustworthy.

Double check the ATX connection in the mobo to make sure it's secure. Take the measurements again. If they're still low, I suggest using a DMM and probing some of the connections to make sure your voltages really are that low.

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Received a new PSU today (Tagan TG700-U25) and tried it straight away. You must be right: It must be the mobo. It certainly cannot be the PSU now, 'cause this thing is a monster PSU for my set up (56A combined 12V in 4 rails, with dual transformers). I'll take the computer to the shop for a mobo replacement (I do not feel like doing all that again myself!).

Thanks!

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Took the mobo to the "doctor" today for checkup and mobo replacement. But I'd like to share with you something else I discovered about this problem:

The lock up/failure to initialize problems appear only when I start up/reboot with Quick Boot (short POST mode) enabled in the BIOS. If I boot through the loooong POST process, even if I abort the mem check prior to completion, everything is fine.

Have you ever heard of anything like this before? Any clues about what could be the cause of these???

Thanks a million!

 

[jonnyGURU]

Do you have anything plugged into USB (other than keyboard/mouse) during boot up?

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

I tried to keep things to a minimum.

Computer backplate only had 2 USB ports used: one for the Mouse and one to bridge the connection to the USB hub on my Viewsonic 201b. The hub on the monitor only had a Logitech WebCam connected to it.

No more USBs used. Nothing pluged to the Firewire either. Only 1 network cable plugged (Mobo has 2).

 

[jonnyGURU]

Disconnect the hub. Leave only the mouse plugged in.

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Thanks a lot, JohnnyGuru!

I'll give it a try as soon as I have a chance. My system is at the testbed right now being checked for faults in the mobo. But If the guys cannot find anything wrong with it, then you may be right and it's the hub what's being messing it all up during quick post boot up.

I'll let you know how it went as soon as I have a report from the shop. It's actually the first time I send a computer to a specialized shop for check up, but the amount of time I was dedicating to identifying and fixing this problem, after assembly and set up, was about to get me on the road to trouble with my partner!

Cheers mate!

 

[jonnyGURU]

Where I'm coming from:

I left a Sandisk thumb drive in a AOpen board once and it exhibited the same problems you're describing.

Also, I left an Ultra card reader plugged into an Asus board and had the same problem there too.

The Thumbdrive I can understand... the board is trying to boot off of it. The card reader I can't understand, especially since there's no cards in the reader when I boot up. Maybe it's "looking" for media? I don't know.

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Interesting!

You've made me think here.

My Razer mouse used to be in my former system, in which I too had a USB card reader plugged. In that system I also had random lockups of the mouse (but never the keyboard or disk failures), but I attributed it to the fact I had perhaps upgraded "too much" for the PSU to cope.

My former rig was assembled in an Antec Sonata case (with a Antec's custom 380W PSU) based on:

AMD 64 3500
Asus A8V Deluxe
2 Gigs RAM Samsung
2 PATA HDDs (maxtor and seagate, UDMA 133) and a Raptor
Audigy 2 ZS
nVidia GeForce 6800GT (AGP)

Indeed, this system had lots of USB devices plugged into it, including a card reader.

That system is now stripped down (Raptor drive, 1 Gb, the Audigy and most of the USB devices) and it boots up and operates flawlessly. It's become my partner's internet and e-mail station.

So, when I first had a problem with the mouse in the new rig I thought it had something to do with voltage regulation of the USB ports. After all the Razer mouse does increase USB pulling rate for increased accuracy and I assume this has something to do with voltage. And then came the random keyboard lock ups and disk failures. These gave more weight to my wild guesses.

However, if it was the mouse, why would the keyboard fail? Or the Raptor? The card reader was plugged in the other system when I had troubles, true, but not anymore in the new system. Could it be the USB hub in the monitor then? The WebCam?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: RodrigoDiaz
Interesting!

You've made me think here.

My Razer mouse used to be in my former system, in which I too had a USB card reader plugged. In that system I also had random lockups of the mouse (but never the keyboard or disk failures), but I attributed it to the fact I had perhaps upgraded "too much" for the PSU to cope.

My former rig was assembled in an Antec Sonata case (with a Antec's custom 380W PSU) based on:

AMD 64 3500
Asus A8V Deluxe
2 Gigs RAM Samsung
2 PATA HDDs (maxtor and seagate, UDMA 133) and a Raptor
Audigy 2 ZS
nVidia GeForce 6800GT (AGP)

Indeed, this system had lots of USB devices plugged into it, including a card reader.

That system is now stripped down (Raptor drive, 1 Gb, the Audigy and most of the USB devices) and it boots up and operates flawlessly. It's become my partner's internet and e-mail station.

So, when I first had a problem with the mouse in the new rig I thought it had something to do with voltage regulation of the USB ports. After all the Razer mouse does increase USB pulling rate for increased accuracy and I assume this has something to do with voltage. And then came the random keyboard lock ups and disk failures. These gave more weight to my wild guesses.

However, if it was the mouse, why would the keyboard fail? Or the Raptor? The card reader was plugged in the other system when I had troubles, true, but not anymore in the new system. Could it be the USB hub in the monitor then? The WebCam?

It could also be that cappuccino machine you have hooked up using the USB port.....just a thought.

 

[RodrigoDiaz]

Almost, JediYoda, almost...

Although a good espresso/capuccino is a must when I read the morning papers on the net NESPRESSO does not sell them with USBs... Just yet!