Is Prescott Worth The Wait

[mechBgon]

You AMD boys need to remember how miserable looking the A64 chips was looking on its early review releases, often times not beating the 3200+ Barton...

This is true All the scientific analysis and debating and reasoning got out of hand, and it was all null & void when the product came out. My guess is Prescott will mainly build on the strengths of the P4 (working with streaming data in particular, with its SSE3 instructions), but maybe it'll surprise us other ways too.

As for the hysteria over the thermal output, I personally wouldn't care what the thermal output of the CPU is, since I tend to build full-sized ATX systems with beefy power supplies and decent ventilation. If I were building cute little mini-systems in poorly-ventilated cute little cases, maybe it would be more of a big deal.

 

[Wolfdog]

To answer the origional question, yes I do think that they are worth the wait. I'll list some of the more promising improvements below. The 875/865 line is very stable nowadays and could make you a very fast and stable system. If you can wait until this summer though the market will be doing a full Intel refresh. The i915/925 will be out in force with all the newest technologies this march/april. Waiting a couple of months to work out the bugs, etc would put it into the summer. There is do doubt in my mind that prescott will perform well compaired to the current p4. At least wait two weeks for all the reviews to start pouring out. Then make up your mind which way to go.

-1mb l2 cache
-16kb l1
-improved branch predict/prefetch
-sse3
-lower imul latency
-a whole lot of something undisclosed, with 125million transistors there is by far more than what has been disclosed to date. 64-bit support? Northwood ~55 million transistors while prescott is 125mil. It only took ~10 million extra from the willamette core to add 256k cache. So adding up the extra 512k cache that prescott has over NW would put it at about 75million. Adding up the rest shouldn't take more than say ~20 million, putting it at 95-100million. So where are the extra 25 million going?

 

[mechBgon]

It only took ~10 million extra from the willamette core to add 256k cache. So adding up the extra 512k cache that prescott has over NW would put it at about 75million. Adding up the rest shouldn't take more than say ~20 million, putting it at 95-100million. So where are the extra 25 million going?

mechBgon's top theories:

• They threw a spare Celeron core on there, just in case the Prescott core comes out faulty
• They threw some extra cache on there that they can enable if they need to, and/or in case there's a flaw in some sections of cache (this could be a compleet idjut idea, ask PM or Wingznut if you want a good answer)
• They had a buy-4, get-1-free coupon
• Palladium :Q
• On-chip audio acceleration?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

You AMD boys need to remember how miserable looking the A64 chips was looking on its early review releases, often times not beating the 3200+ Barton...

This is true All the scientific analysis and debating and reasoning got out of hand, and it was all null & void when the product came out. My guess is Prescott will mainly build on the strengths of the P4 (working with streaming data in particular, with its SSE3 instructions), but maybe it'll surprise us other ways too.

As for the hysteria over the thermal output, I personally wouldn't care what the thermal output of the CPU is, since I tend to build full-sized ATX systems with beefy power supplies and decent ventilation. If I were building cute little mini-systems in poorly-ventilated cute little cases, maybe it would be more of a big deal.

Exactly...I can always count on you to speak the truth and see it straight....

PPl need to eralize out of the gate the SSE3 optimization wont necessarily be there in the software or not to its full benefit...IE how long until we had SSE2 optimization in a lot of application????....That is one of the improvments I am less excited about...I have a centrino and I can see sometimes how the larger l2 cahe (1mb ) makes a diff....I think that will be big as well as the larger l1 cache....

 

[mechBgon]

Another remark on the power issue: I heat my apartment with electricity anyway, so what's the difference... Game, encode, and crunch for Team AnandTech, and heat your home in the process... at least during the winter!

I haven't tried any video encoding, but my understanding is that encoding apps are pretty quick to take advantage of available optomizations, unlike the rest of the software scene where they say "ahh, well we'll consider utilizing that in our next version ". So I forsee a Prescott in your future, Duvie...

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Another remark on the power issue: I heat my apartment with electricity anyway, so what's the difference... Game, encode, and crunch for Team AnandTech, and heat your home in the process... at least during the winter!

I haven't tried any video encoding, but my understanding is that encoding apps are pretty quick to take advantage of available optomizations, unlike the rest of the software scene where they say "ahh, well we'll consider utilizing that in our next version ". So I forsee a Prescott in your future, Duvie...

Oh I will not be the early adopter...I usually am not!!!

I like to jump in 300-500mhz spurts or some serious performance enhancements at same speed...the reason I drug my feet so long on the p4 HT was the fact I had dual channel DDR and a 2.4b@3.24ghz and I didn't know if there would be much of a improvement..Throw in the piss poor reviewing of HT by most all the sites and I had to find out myself....

NOw at 3.5ghz I am concerned how the heck am I going to cool 3.8ghz if I go with my natural progression...I don't want water cooling and I am not going to drop a pretty penny on a vapor chilling setup....

So I need to see major speed to speed increase and optimizations and likely some proof 3.6-3.7ghz is attainable with air cooling....If not Maybe a fx53 or greater will be in my future....I say that loosely cause when I see what HT has done for me and see it versus A64's in seti, rendering, and tmpgenc encoding I don't think it is as close as some of the reviews make it....

The thing that could sway me from HT to A64 or most likley FX is if 64bit optimizations comes and it has some major results....

 

[Markfw]

....If not Maybe a fx53 or greater will be in my future....I say that loosely cause when I see what HT has done for me and see it versus A64's in seti, rendering, and tmpgenc encoding I don't think it is as close as some of the reviews make it....

Duvie with an AMD ? The world might come to an end....

Seriously, I have read your threads on HT, and the reviews, and I am still not totally sold. I really like it when the CPU doesn't need a bunch of optimizations to work well, so in the wide and varied things I do, I don't have to keep looking for special coding. Also, I can't believe how much cooler this A64 is vs my XP2700. Come on over and experience it for yourself !!!

 

[Duvie]

I haven't really had to look too far...Most ofthe applications I was already running....TMPGenc, Autocad 2002, Pinnacle Studio 8.8, DVDshrink, Divx w/ GKnot, etc....The ones that don't run HT I can run 2 instances and beat an A64....SETI, POV-Ray, FH, etc....

I think HT is great and so what if it is optimizations for a CPU...The fact is the AMD should have the same single thread idle issue that HT overcomes....So should you really just be pissed you are not getting all you should??? SSE2, and future SSE3 are optimizations of code...Ht is optimization of threads and how they are handled...AMD should learn a lesson!!!

 

[Kokomo]

I have some SiSoftware Sandra and Intel Processor ID Utility screenshots of a P4P (Prescott) 2.8 GHz running on an ASUS P4C800-E.

They don't answer all the questions posed here, but do shed some light on the rumors. :light:

If anyone is interested, email me Text and I'll send them along. Might link them later today.

End of next week I will run it on an Intel 875PBZLK and a GigaByte 8IK1100 for comparison.

Please don't ask where I got it. I could tell you, but then...

 

[Thor86]

We'll see how the extra on-die memory comes in handy.

This guy just got a 2.8 Prescott:

Link.

 

[Jeff7181]

The first of any new generation isn't going to be worth the wait, or the price. Look at all the people who bought the A64 3200+ for $450 when it was released... now it's $270 just a few months later.

I think Intel NEEDS to adopt SOI if they want to get their heat dissipation down. Look how much success AMD is having with it, and this is just the first batch of processor's we've seen. They could very well make more improvements to the manufacturing process and it wouldn't take much to adopt Strained Silicon like Intel decided to go with... before you know it, you could have a 3.0 Ghz, .09nm, 1.0 volt Athlon-64 in your hands.

I don't think the Prescott will be all that impressive right off the bat because there really isn't any huge architectural changes it seems. It seems like most of the speed increases of the first retail products will be due to optimizations in HT and SSE3. I think when they switch to the new socket, then you'll see some significant architectural changes, possibly even MORE on die cache, and maybe even 64-bit capabilities.

The Athlon-64 wasn't as impressive right off the bat either because there wasn't, and still isn't any mainstream 64-bit support for it. When we finally get Windows XP 64-bit and a bunch of software properly ported, then you'll see it shine. Just like the P4 shines when you run HT and SSE2 optimized applications.

So... is the Prescott worth waiting for? Definately... all new hardware is worth waiting for. Is it worth buying the day you see it for sale on newegg? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the price of it vs. a P4C. Like everything else, a new product will have some rough edges, and the 2nd revision is usually significantly better than the first one. For example, Willamette and Northwood, Palomino and Thoroughbred, socket 940 and socket 939.

 

[Nitro734]

I'd wait until the fabrication process is refined somewhat. If you buy a 2.6c Northwood now, chances are its just an underclocked 3.0 because Intel needs to fill the spectrum the economy requests. The northwoods are currently mature, and Intel is probably getting high yields from its wafers (save the P4EE, can't see intel making huge profit margins off those). If you get a P4P at launch, chances are it has little overhead for overclocking.

 

[ntrights]

Originally posted by: Nitro734
I'd wait until the fabrication process is refined somewhat. If you buy a 2.6c Northwood now, chances are its just an underclocked 3.0 because Intel needs to fill the spectrum the economy requests. The northwoods are currently mature, and Intel is probably getting high yields from its wafers (save the P4EE, can't see intel making huge profit margins off those). If you get a P4P at launch, chances are it has little overhead for overclocking.

Good point. I'l wait for Anands review before buying one...Im at 3.6 1200mhz FSB if the 2.8 or 3.0 can do minimum ~280'ish i'l get one.

 

[willbemcse]

I will wait for the review at anandtech and see how it compares to current P4.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I need an upgrade for my i875 board
my 1.8 P4m can't get me over 3ghz and i want to enjoy the whole HT craze
intel is cutting prices on the 2.8 to 2.6 levels soon

i don't think prescott will be feasable for most people till the beginning of next year but it should drive prices on the other p4's lower atleast

i like to upgrade my cpu's with the manufacturing process
.09 sounds fun and 1mb of cache makes me drule

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: willbemcse
I will wait for the review at anandtech and see how it compares to current P4.

I am sure you will get a nice review of games...For me I will have to wait for someone I know or some site out there to do a decent non gamers review.....

 

[Wolfdog]

If anything else Intel will be slashing the prescott prices before it is even launched. So either way you could get a good deal prescott or not.

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2004/01/20&pages=A8&seq=50

 

[orion7144]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: willbemcse
I will wait for the review at anandtech and see how it compares to current P4.

I am sure you will get a nice review of games...For me I will have to wait for someone I know or some site out there to do a decent non gamers review.....

Or since most of the review sites don't take into account the HT they could just run two instances of the same game and see how it compares to the AMD. OH wait I just did that with my neighbours Barton.... Results are coming to a forum near you. Also if anyone is in the DFW area and has an A64 that would like to see how a 2.4C running at 275-300 FSB will compare to it PM me I have plenty of space!