Is Pirating okay?

[flabbergasted]

I am in the middle of a very LONG AIM conversation of the morality of pirating. My friend says that pirating is not stealing. In fact, he says it's okay. I say pirating is theft, period.
What do you guys think? If you think my friend is right, tell me some of your reasons why. If you think I'm right tell me some of your reasons why.

Thanks guys!

 

[Killbat]

It's a neat issue because software isn't material, it can be copied infinitely at zero cost.
BUT, using pirated software is still taking money out of the programmers' pockets. You get the benefit of their code, they don't get the benefit of your money. It ain't fair.

 

[AngelOfDeath]

I think it's okey as long as you only try the program or game. Often the Demos sucks and doesn't give you the big picture. You buy it and get disappointed. On the other hand if you try it out, like and then buy, nobody gets hurt. But yes it's a difficult question though.

AoD

 

[Windogg]

I used to pirate but the maintainace on the ship got way too expensive. Although it was fun keelhauling sea captains and taking their wenches. ARRRRR matey.

Windogg

 

[flabbergasted]

my friend would agree that the programmers are indeed getting paid by the company, so they're not being deprived of anything.

 

[hpkeeper]

I've got a burner here, and most people get the concept that when I bought it, I did it strictly for the benefit of burning software. I didn't, I got it for burning Music CD's, I guess that's pirating... depending on who's side your on Metallica... or Green day

 

[sparkle]

yes, but if enough people pirate, companies don't make as much money and wont pay programmers as much. I tend not to pirate music especially because if I like a band, and buy thier cd why should all my friends get a free copy. Support the people who make the music you like or else they'll stop. The same goes for software. However, if a company misrepresents the "greatess" of thier product and I buy it, and it literally sucks, you can bet everyone I know is getting a free copy. This, is once again based on the honesty factor.

Like it or Lump it all of us have done some form of pirating in one way or another.

 

[DaLeroy]

geez, nah of course it's ok jk...
it's pretty damn wrong, but that doesn't stop me from doing it!!

 

[vi edit]

I really hold the same opinion of pirating software as I do "stealing" music off of napster.

If I like what I have, I'll buy it.

I do it for work quite a bit. I've "aquired" various software and compare it to other companies that put out competeing software. I usually use pirated software because many of the demos and trials that you can download have crippled the software or prevented you from using it in it's fullest form. I don't buy a half-functioning product, so I don't want to try out a half-functioning product.

If I'm happy with the software, I'll reward the company with purchasing 50 licenses.

Same goes with music. If I'm happy with what I've downloaded, I'll go out and buy the CD. If not, it gets canned.

I personally don't have any issues with people buying a copy of Win98 and sticking it on two or three machines in their house. I do it my self. To say otherwise would be hypocritical. But, outside of the home where people are using the software to make money/increase productivity, then I start to have serious issues with it.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< ARRRRR matey >>

My thoughts exactly Windogg

 

[konichiwa]

I don't see the argument that pirating is okay. :Q

 

[Doggiedog]

I always buy my software. To me even if something is not material or tangible it can still be a service which should be paid for.

HOWEVER, I do not believe in the way Micro$oft takes their approach to piracy in forcing companies into rigid and fixed price contracts and by gouging their customers.

For example, I bought a Gateway PC which came with Win98. I threw out the GTW MB because it was a POS and installed a new MB. When I tried to reinstall Win98 after a crash, I couldn't because the MSFT copy protection didn't recognize my non-GTW MB. That was total BS because that was my only copy of Win98SE. I've got older copies of Win98FE but not SE. So you know what I did? I went out and got a burned copy of SE. Now is that pirating? Probably but I don't care because Microshaft ripped me off because I paid for a copy of SE when I bought the PC.

I also couldn't care less about pirating MS Word or Excel. I would buy the software if it were reasonably priced at say $40-50 but since they like to gouge their customers up to $500 for the set for software that I believe wouldn't cost so much if MSFT didn't have a monopoly on OSes.

I mean come on, what do you think is harder to program? A word processor or Baldur's Gate 2? MSFT has had that 32bit Word code for several years now they should follow the traditional system of lowering their prices because their production costs should have gone down. But they don't because they are a monopoly.

 

[cyclistca]

my friend would agree that the programmers are indeed getting paid by the company, so they're not being deprived of anything.

True but as someone already said if no one buys the software then no one pays the programmers. I know as a programmer I would not work for free so I pay for all of my software.

That being said I do think some of the prices for productivity software is retarded. If I did not have access to programs like Word at work I might consider getting a copy. Are you listening MS.
Gee if they can put out a game for 40 dollars why does Word cost so much?

 

[Adul]

Because Businesses can afford to pay for that.

 

[Zorba]

My thoughts are, if I like the software I'll pay for it. If I don't really need the software just like to play with it (like Photoshop) I won't pay for it, since I could never justify the cost. Also if I pay for software I will put it on every computer in my house, I will never buy more than one copy for myself. I also like splitting the cost of software with a friend. Although maybe not right, at least we paid something for it.

I also have no problem ripping of Microsh!t, because they are a monopoly and there is no way in hell I am going to pay 400+ bucks for a decent word processor.

I think that if software companies brought the prices down to a reasonable levels more people would buy it.

 

[Valhalla1]

here's my take on it :

some argue that pirating takes away from paying the software companies and programmers for their hard work. I disagree in many instances. for example, I have a friend who got an illegitimate copy of Windows 2000 Server and Advanced server. If he hadn't been able to obtain these copies, he never would have bought them in the first place. So the software company didn't lose any money on him at all.

however, if said person was needing this software for production, and didn't pay for it, then its &quot;wrong&quot;.

However software prices are really harsh on some of the people who need it and use it the most - broke college kids

 

[Doggiedog]

Just because prices are harsh on college kids it shouldn't make it right to pirate.

However, I can't think of anybody who would buy a computer game even if it was the best one of the planet for $500. Somehow Macroshaft has come up with a good racket to make you pay something close to that when buying MS Office and their very high margin OSes. I believe the MSFT should be paid for their OSes since without them we probably would be typing away on Macs right now. But I don't agree with their pricing structures and the &quot;Microsoft Tax&quot; you need to pay each time you buy a new PC. I mean if I had a perfectly useful copy of Win2000 why should I pay for another copy just because I get a new PC? Why can't I buy a new PC without an OS? I guess a good analogy would be having a music CD and only being able to play it on the CD player in your living room but not your bedroom CD player (kinda like DIVX).

Also, I don't believe programming new and useless functionality into the tired old code of Excel and Word then going back and charging ridiculous prices for it is right. Because of MSFT's monopoly on OSes and their stranglehold on the productivity software market, we are forced to upgrade our perfectly useful older MS Offices because it seems every new version of Office has some slightly incompatibilities with older versions. That is just plain wrong and I definitely won't support that.

 

[konichiwa]

<< If he hadn't been able to obtain these copies, he never would have bought them in the first place. So the software company didn't lose any money on him at all >>

So if I go to my local Rolls Royce dealership and jack a Bentley, it's not stealing because I wouldn't have bought it anyway? Whether they lose money or not, stealing is stealing.

 

[Valhalla1]

<< So if I go to my local Rolls Royce dealership and jack a Bentley, it's not stealing because I wouldn't have bought it anyway? Whether they lose money or not, stealing is stealing >>




exactly.

but you see, not exactly. because if you steal a $250,000 car, they are out of $250,000 because they lost the car. But if you were to go and take lots of pictures of it and not buy it, but go home and make a copy of it, thats more like what I'm saying. I'm not saying its okay to steal a boxed copy off the shelf, because then they are losing money.

but making a copy or downloading a copy isn't the same as stealing a car, because you aren't stealing a solid asset

 

[DanC]

Pirating is theft, plain and simple. There isn't any gray area with that.
It's alot like the argument that the recording artists make regarding MP3's.
It's certainly understandable because what you are talking about isn't tangible property, it's intellectual property.

The author of intellectual property has as much right to be paid for his (or her) efforts as anyone. The obvious exception is those who place their work in the public domain freely to be distributed.

Typically this would be written off as an advertising expense. Even the freebies have value.

Try to make a point of seeking out and ruthlessly paying people whose software you use. Not only is it a nice thing to do.... the other scenario is still theft.

 

[Thanatopsis]

Doggiedog,


<< Probably but I don't care because Microshaft ripped me off because I paid for a copy of SE when I bought the PC. >>

You were ripped off by Gateway, not by Microsoft. If Gateway would buy full versions of each Windows and not a limited OEM version, you would be able to install windows on that new machine. But Gateway screwed you over - not MS. Get that part straight before you piss on MS.



<< we are forced to upgrade our perfectly useful older MS Offices because it seems every new version of Office has some slightly incompatibilities with older versions. >>


Nobody holds a gun to your head and says, &quot;Buy this upgrade.&quot; If someone has an old version of Word, and you send them a new version, they have two options.
1) Gee I can't open this. Mind saving as a Word 95 doc?
or
2) Download the free (yes, free) Word 97 viewer from Microsoft.com





<< Why can't I buy a new PC without an OS? >>


Too bad you can. Every OEM computer you buy will come bundled with an OS, usually Windows. If you build your own, you don't have to buy an OS. You can download Linux or BeOS.

BTW, Microsoft gives you most of the upgrades you will find in the new versions of Windows for free! Its a simple thing called Windows Update. As I last recall, the only thing not included in the free download section was Internet Connection Sharing off of Windows 98se. (Millenium Edition is a different story). Your arguments for pirating MS products are not valid.

 

[Thanatopsis]

First of all, your car analogy is ludicrous. Taking a picture of a car and copying it is no where near getting the experience of owning that car. You cannot drive it - it does not provide you anything. Pirated copies provide you the program, just as if you bought it. The only thing similar is if you could take a picture of it, and replicate a car from the picture. But that gets into trickier territory.



<< but making a copy or downloading a copy isn't the same as stealing a car, because you aren't stealing a solid asset >>



Intellectual property is protected under copyright laws. It is an asset. Lets say you discovered a cure for cancer. You write it down on a piece of paper. I come in, take a picture of your plans, and use it for myself to sell to a drug company the day before you were planning to. Are you going to accept my argument that I took nothing material from your house, therefore I stole nothing? I think not.

 

[UnixFreak]

<< Is pirating ok? >>



Only if its MS software LOL

I copy Linux for people all the time, I havent been caught yet, though.

 

[robotcholi]

Is it okay?
Hmmm, let me think. NO! But hell, I do it all the time.

 

[Valhalla1]

like I said, take a picture, take it home and copy it. the car analogy would only be sound if I was talking about stealing it from a store shelf. but basically what I'm talking about is dowloading a copy from the net. you didn't steal anything from a store, its like you downloaded the specs of the car and made it yourself, sorta.