Is pc building a dying trend?

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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
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If its a pre built, it has to be a real PC where they use real parts. So the only proprietary thing are the hands that assembled what I would have assembled myself anyway. Even then I don't trust them because its not their rig. They don't give a shit if a part isn't fully seated and secured. Its not their rig. They don't give ass hit.
 

rsbennett00

Senior member
Jul 13, 2014
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When the other tech forums ask why I bother coming here, I show them this thread as an example of all the hate and rage this forum embodies.
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
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As one of those IT "people" who has probably forgotten more about computers then you'll ever, ever know ( :awe: ), it depends on several factors. People who think IT "people" should always be custom building white boxes for their companies or other businesses often lack the insight and business knowledge of having actually worked in big IT for large companies. Here are a few of the factors:

1. You NEVER should scratch build a system for a company, even a small company. Doing so exposes you to support headaches and additional risk. And by "you," I'm talking about guys building PCs for people on the side. If you own your own computer shop you can do it, but it still isn't a good idea IMO. Consulting services are where the money is at, not slinging commodity items. I have a friend who owns a small "consulting" business and he gets caught up supporting PCs for small businesses instead of looking at the bigger picture and selling higher-margin, more profitable services. Drives me nuts!

2. I would extend the above and say that even building PCs for family and friends is something you should be careful with. I spec out and help my brothers build their PCs, but only because I know they're moderately savvy and won't whine and complain to me with every little problem. On the other hand, I would never build a computer for my mother-in-law. They had a Dell and wanted to upgrade and I told them to get a Dell again. I've helped them with a couple of issues but no way would I want to be on the hook for full-time support.

3. I personally build my own PCs and as I mentioned earlier, still advise my brothers to build their own. Why? I still find it an enjoyable hobby and like to know every single part that goes into a PC. I also build my own servers as well. Also, as I mentioned, I trust my brothers not to be pains in my ass every time Word crashes.

As far as "outrageous prices," as others have said, you don't build PCs today to save money in all but the rarest cases. That ship sailed a long, long time ago. You could save money building your own servers, but again, anyone claiming to be an IT person who scratch builds servers for businesses clearly lacks experience and good judgment.

HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. generally have excellent business products. HP, Dell, Lenovo, et all also keep large stocks of spare parts. They can make those parts available quickly and efficiently and can even send a tech out to do the work on a system that dies. I don't want to offend anyone here, but this is low margin work that nearly anyone can do. Why would anyone voluntarily want to put themselves into a position where they would have to keep spare parts on hand AND service PCs that break? They also have call centers with people dedicated to supporting computer problems. Do YOU want to take phone calls from idiots whining that Excel crashed on the computer YOU built them? Hell no, let Dell or HP handle that BS.

Yay, someone who knows what they are talking about! The "IT people" comment hit a nerve with me as well.

Working for a large software company, there is a reason why we only qualify certain hardware and are not going to support white-box builds. Support and business continuity are the main reasons that any serious business is going to be using HP, Dell, Cisco, etc. in their datacenters.

Are you seriously going to white-box something for a customer and then support it? Are you going to be able to provide them an identical system or component to replace the failed one (and it WILL fail somewhere at some point) and overnight it to their location? Because that's what is often needed.

It sounds like you (Zorkorist) are one of the "IT people" who needs some education :)
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
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Yay, someone who knows what they are talking about! The "IT people" comment hit a nerve with me as well.

Working for a large software company, there is a reason why we only qualify certain hardware and are not going to support white-box builds. Support and business continuity are the main reasons that any serious business is going to be using HP, Dell, Cisco, etc. in their datacenters.

Are you seriously going to white-box something for a customer and then support it? Are you going to be able to provide them an identical system or component to replace the failed one (and it WILL fail somewhere at some point) and overnight it to their location? Because that's what is often needed.

It sounds like you (Zorkorist) are one of the "IT people" who needs some education :)

Go back to Tom's. This forum is for white box elitists only.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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I went here :

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...sg_wscpm_z230_products_preconfig/shopnow_z230

It's possible that I don't understand their site, but that's what I get when I go to 'shop for HP workstations', and then select the Z230.

The cheapest one I see is $799, for the SFF with i3-4160, 4GB DDR3 1600, 500GB HDD, no GPU. The identical non-SFF variant to that with the i3 is $829.

I'm definitely not saying the cheaper deal doesn't exist, but it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper than what someone would find just going to HP.com and typing Z230 into the search field, or clicking on 'shop for HP workstations' and selecting Z230.
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
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That's more of a political reason and more dictated by management. Basically the company wants to have an external company to blame if something goes wrong. It's actually really childish, but it's how things work. Rather than custom building everything and getting your IT staff to do... IT work, you have everything prebuilt and setup by contractors/vendors and IT only do the dirty work that revolves around that like connecting the keyboard and mouse, or the typical stuff like backups and system maintenance, and then the rest is all meetings and other management crap. Heck, all the places I worked IT was not even allowed to touch code. Most programming is outsourced these days and they usually have contracts stopping anyone from doing anything in house.

I like Google's approach, most of their stuff is in house, they even use consumer grade hard drives for their server stuff. While some of the vendor stuff like Dell and IBM have crazy warranties that you simply can't get with prebuilt components, they charge so much and lock you into proprietary stuff that you're better off going in-house and just building more redundancy into your system and having more spares.

On other thought, custom building actual PCs for the company would probably be unrealistic unless it's a small company. Servers on the other hand are more realistic as you wont have as many. The biggest issue would be trying to source out parts that are all the same. Go on any site like Newegg and they might have 1-10 of a specific motherboard in stock only, then if you order more you get another revision or completely different motherboard because they only make so many till they change to another model. You simply can't pick a specific motherboard or other component and order 1000+ of them. No sites will have that many in stock or even let you, as a lot of them have limits of how much per person.

So much fail. And if you are purchasing 1000+ of something, you are no longer dealing with a reseller. You're going straight to the distributor.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
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You don't build for price anymore. You build for customization, and fun.

People said above for decades. Not true.

You still save money when you compare component to component. No Dell/HP or anyone will give you a quality Power Supply for example.

So sure, the PC might cost the same price, but what you are getting is WAY different in quality.

When you build yourself, you save a bit of money get better quality components and most important......regain FREEDOM to do whatever the hell you want (unlike with many PC wholesalers).
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
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2. I would extend the above and say that even building PCs for family and friends is something you should be careful with. I spec out and help my brothers build their PCs, but only because I know they're moderately savvy and won't whine and complain to me with every little problem. On the other hand, I would never build a computer for my mother-in-law. They had a Dell and wanted to upgrade and I told them to get a Dell again. I've helped them with a couple of issues but no way would I want to be on the hook for full-time support.

Those are words of wisdom right there. Quite some time ago (back in the PII / PIII days) I built several custom systems for friends / co-workers / family because people knew I liked to do this as a hobby. The next few years I suddenly became their tech support every time something wasn't running right. Of course nine times out of ten they had killed the system themselves looking for free porn or lack of any sort of maintenance but I would still get calls asking for help.

These days when people ask me what they should buy I tell them to look at Apple, Dell, Best Buy, Sams. I don't even entertain the idea of building for anyone but myself, and every box I have is custom built.
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
452
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Go back to Tom's. This forum is for white box elitists only.

lol...I custom build my own PC's. Doing so for a server is a horrible idea for anything but the smallest businesses.

Yes...let's go see if I can convince anyone here that we should move our multi-billion dollar business to use all white-box servers.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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lol...I custom build my own PC's. Doing so for a server is a horrible idea for anything but the smallest businesses.

Yes...let's go see if I can convince anyone here that we should move our multi-billion dollar business to use all white-box servers.

I'll just keep that in mind next time I have to maintain one of my personal, multi billion dollar industries. When did you found it? If you die does your wife get the whole company?
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
452
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I'll just keep that in mind next time I have to maintain one of my personal, multi billion dollar industries. When did you found it? If you die does your wife get the whole company?

By "our" I mean the company I work for. I don't mean that I own it.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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I'll just keep that in mind next time I have to maintain one of my personal, multi billion dollar industries. When did you found it? If you die does your wife get the whole company?

He's referring to a couple of users in this thread who were talking about how businesses could/should save money by building their own servers. Regardless of the size of the business, that is a very, very bad idea especially coming from people we know are IT employees. Not to offend anyone, but that kind of thinking shows a very shallow understanding of business and professional IT.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
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He's referring to a couple of users in this thread who were talking about how businesses could/should save money by building their own servers. Regardless of the size of the business, that is a very, very bad idea especially coming from people we know are IT employees. Not to offend anyone, but that kind of thinking shows a very shallow understanding of business and professional IT.

Agreed

You can't just make broad statements when it comes to this in the business/professional sector. Completely different beast.

I thought we were talking about personal builds here....
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
688
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Agreed

You can't just make broad statements when it comes to this in the business/professional sector. Completely different beast.

I thought we were talking about personal builds here....

I thought so too, but a couple posters had to bring "IT people" into it and grace us with their theories of why business should hire people to sit around and build PCs and servers for their users. :)
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
452
0
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I thought so too, but a couple posters had to bring "IT people" into it and grace us with their theories of why business should hire people to sit around and build PCs and servers for their users. :)

They obviously don't understand the cost of the number of FTE's required for this vs. the support contracts either.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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688
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They obviously don't understand the cost of the number of FTE's required for this vs. the support contracts either.

Exactly. Not only that, but would you want to be a part of this conversation?

COMPANY PRESIDENT: "IT Guy, our external web presence just went down. Orders aren't coming in and we can't ship anything!"

IT GUY: "Oh, yeah, that white box VM host containing the firewall and several other servers I built looks dead."

COMPANY PRESIDENT: "Can you fix it?"

IT GUY: "Hmmm, let me check (silence for a few minutes). Ah, the motherboard is dead. I see a big black spot where the VRM used to be."

COMPANY PRESIDENT: "How long to fix?"

IT GUY: "Let me see -- well, Newegg and Amazon are out of stock on that motherboard and won't have it for another week. Microcenter and Frys don't carry it. So we're looking at 7 days for a replacement board which SHOULD be a simple swap, or I'll have to run over to Frys and grab a board that is on VMWare's HCL and build it from scratch. That'll take me a day or so."

COMPANY PRESIDENT: "WHAT?!?!?! Don't we have a service agreement with a vendor who can fix it within 4 business hours?!?!?!"

IT GUY: "Uh, no. As I posted on Anandtech, I can save money building our own servers. I saved $300 on this puppy!"

COMPANY PRESIDENT: "YOU'RE FIRED!"
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
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I used to build PCs, but switched to Apple about 6 years ago. I'm not a heavy gamer anymore, so a high end iMac will play whatever I want to play (which now is Civ: BE) just fine.
 

sswingle

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
7,183
45
91
Just ordered parts for a new build. Looked at Dell for a bit, but unless I wasn't doing it right, was frustrated that you apparently can't customize the build anymore. Want an i7 with SSD? It has 12 GB ram. Want 16 GB ram, well, no SSD then, and seemingly no way to just click customize and add what I needed.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
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Companies like ibuypower and Origin are still around building systems. Sometimes it's cheaper going through them.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
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2,450
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Sadly, you can often get a pre-built desktop system from Dell now for less than the cost of the parts plus the OEM OS license.

Depending on the sale price available that given day, you can save almost $200 off what would be the parts cost+shipping on a $1,000 system.
 

CoPhotoGuy

Senior member
Nov 16, 2014
452
0
0
Just ordered parts for a new build. Looked at Dell for a bit, but unless I wasn't doing it right, was frustrated that you apparently can't customize the build anymore. Want an i7 with SSD? It has 12 GB ram. Want 16 GB ram, well, no SSD then, and seemingly no way to just click customize and add what I needed.

This sadly seems to be how Dell is going - if you scroll down you can customize some things but not nearly as many things as you used to be able to. It's fine for basic systems. Not so much for gaming or power user systems.

They are also using i7-5820K's and only giving you 4 DIMM slots. Kinda lame.