Is pc building a dying trend?

[BUTCH1]

It's not "paranoia". It's truth, and no one needs to why I don't want to give up my data. Also, it isn't required that I give people a reason. That's the nice part about being a big boy. I don't have to answer to others, and don't have to justify my actions. "I don't like it" is an adequate answer. Privacy and security isn't the purview of the rich and elite. It's the dignity everyone deserves, and has full rights to.

Well, I don't want to insult you as I consider you as one of the more intelligent posters in OT, but you kinda act like a wanted man, warrants??.

 

[lxskllr]

Well, I don't want to insult you as I consider you as one of the more intelligent posters in OT, but you kinda act like a wanted man, warrants??.

Nope. It's bad policy to give others access to your data. If MS has access, everyone has access. *You also inexplicably lose your fourth amendment rights when you entrust your data to third parties.

*That's what happens when you let lawyers play word games, and twist things around so much, no one knows what's even being discussed anymore. Only a retard would think data one intends to be private doesn't mean that because it was entrusted to someone else for storage. Get a warrant, or GTFO...

 

[zerocool84]

Part of the thrill was overclocking your CPU/GPU but it seems like you really don't need to anymore. If you've bought something in the past couple years I'm sure it's still pretty good. Not like before when big upgrades were happened every 6-12 months. Keeping up on everything new was part of the fun as well. Everything is good enough. Now the mobile market has taken over for the huge performance upgrades but even that is slowing down too as everything within the last year or two is good enough as well

 

[Kaido]

No, it's that we need time to think, and BS on tech forums . Custom building and support is a huge time sink, and the total PC cost is lower up front, save for SSDs ($50 cheaper OS, $100-200 cheaper Acrobat, $50-150 cheaper Office...). I fail to see any outrageous prices for anything but internal SSDs, where I sit.

I used to be in the "build everything yourself, use *nix for everything you can" group...until I got a corporate job. I support 200 people in my branch now...I simply don't have time to screw around with individual customizations all day long anymore (and still have time to nef ). Dell sells turnkey equipment with a warranty where a guy will come out within 4 hours to fix whatever breaks. I can buy PowerEdge servers, Equalogic SAN's, Sonicwall firewall/VPN/web filters, Wyse thin clients, and Optiplex desktops and get stuff up & running quickly, with OOTB reliability, with great after-purchase support, with minimal training required to get it working. I literally don't have days on end of free time to screw around tinkering with stuff to get it up & running...plus, an hour of downtime for me can cost ten or twenty grand for the business; I feel much better using the big guys because then I have a support team to network with for troubleshooting hardware, software, and networking issues.

My perspective on IT sure has changed a lot in the 10 years I've been on this forum :hmm:

 

[rsbennett00]

Are you guys buying windows for less than $80 somewhere? Is that the upgrade or full version?

 

[zerocool84]

Are you guys buying windows for less than $80 somewhere? Is that the upgrade or full version?

OEM

Legally, if you buy OEM, it's tied to the original motherboard it's installed on so if you change your motherboard, you're supposed to buy a new Windows install.

 

[rsbennett00]

OEM

Legally, if you buy OEM, it's tied to the original motherboard it's installed on so if you change your motherboard, you're supposed to buy a new Windows install.

Yes, right but $80 is the best price I know of and I think someone said $50 in this thread somewhere?

 

[Kaido]

[rant] Maybe this has been discussed here before but I can't seem to find a thread. Just ordered some components for my first build since a Pentium 2 - 200mhz, needless to say, things have changed...

From what I've seen, most of the big kids (Dell, HP, etc...) are selling systems that are almost comparable in price to something you could build yourself, especially for the basic user. While I managed to get a slightly better build for a slightly cheaper price, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

It seems like there are fewer component choices these days (maybe I'm nuts) and your options are very limited from the days of the past... [/end rant]

Pricing yes, it's often hard to beat the big guys unless you're doing a really high-end rig. I custom build most engineering workstations since I can save at least $1,000 & get better parts. However, on components...oh my gosh, so many parts available now. You can literally buy anything you want these days. Although I don't do many desktops anymore because I just use the NUC platform (usually the BRIX lineup from Gigabyte).

In terms of computers, even that is going down the drain. The virtual desktops are getting really good with the advent of server-side hardware video cards & streaming compression...you can do CAD remotely now in full HD (if you're willing to pay for it). I do a lot of projects with Terminal Servers; the very latest thing I picked up is a 2" x 2" Android Cube that has a quad-core processor for under $150:

http://i.imgur.com/YYDifXy.jpg

Plug it into a cheap 1080p LED monitor with a wireless keyboard & mouse, throw SureLock on it for kiosk lockout mode, and setup the MS RDP app for Android to remote in from anywhere onsite. Literally takes me like 5 minutes to setup out of the box & I never have to look at it again...just some simple weekly maintenance on a single Terminal server for every 15 or 20 units deployed. The Android HDMI sticks are just about good enough to replace the cubes...another generation or two of micro-GPU's & it'll just be rolling out plug-in sticks with USB power for a nice FullHD desktop experience!

I don't really know what I want to do going into the future. Another few years and I'll be pretty bored at work, unless I want to jump deeper into networking or programming, which I don't really. I've really enjoyed hardware & servers (including Terminal & virtual), but I think we'll be reverting back to the old-school terminal systems of the 70's & 80's once the networking & hardware gets completely figured out. Stuff like Citrix HDX is already pretty dang good too...just needs another spec bump for getting things like Youtube HD to really play nice and we'll be there...

 

[brianmanahan]

Part of the thrill was overclocking your CPU/GPU but it seems like you really don't need to anymore.

i still do it! my cpu runs at 4.3 instead of 3.3 and has never had a problem because i put a huge heatsink/fan on it

 

[lxskllr]

i still do it! my cpu runs at 4.3 instead of 3.3 and has never had a problem because i put a huge heatsink/fan on it

You can also underclock/volt to save heat/power.

 

[brianmanahan]

You can also underclock/volt to save heat/power.

i used to do that with my web server PC, but eventually i just retired it and went with digitalocean

 

[Kaido]

1. You NEVER should scratch build a system for a company, even a small company. Doing so exposes you to support headaches and additional risk. And by "you," I'm talking about guys building PCs for people on the side. If you own your own computer shop you can do it, but it still isn't a good idea IMO. Consulting services are where the money is at, not slinging commodity items. I have a friend who owns a small "consulting" business and he gets caught up supporting PCs for small businesses instead of looking at the bigger picture and selling higher-margin, more profitable services. Drives me nuts!

2. I would extend the above and say that even building PCs for family and friends is something you should be careful with. I spec out and help my brothers build their PCs, but only because I know they're moderately savvy and won't whine and complain to me with every little problem. On the other hand, I would never build a computer for my mother-in-law. They had a Dell and wanted to upgrade and I told them to get a Dell again. I've helped them with a couple of issues but no way would I want to be on the hook for full-time support.

3. I personally build my own PCs and as I mentioned earlier, still advise my brothers to build their own. Why? I still find it an enjoyable hobby and like to know every single part that goes into a PC. I also build my own servers as well.

Yeah. A couple companies ago, I got into databases and started designing a custom database...then realized what a horrible idea that was because I'd be tied to it forever & ever. Same with hardware...the only thing I really build, outside of custom engineering PC's at my day job, is NUC/BRIX mini-computers, because those are pretty much appliances at this point. Again, I used to be super "LINUX EVERYTHING! BUILD EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH YOU JOKERS!" until it was beat into me, through experience, that it's a terrible idea haha.

I took a bit of a different path with my family...I built them Hackintoshes, lol. Custom PC, with a more robust OS as far as antivirus goes, with a backup drive for Time Machine & a bootable image clone for doing a restore. So if I fly out to see my in-laws & their computer is shot, I can simply swap out the boot disc, boot into the restore partition, clone it back over, and restore their files from last night. Throw on Teamviewer for remote support, voila...visiting family on holidays just got a whole lot easier because I'm not handed six different laptops & desktops to fix as soon as I get off the plane

 

[purbeast0]

i have never bought an off the shelf pc, only laptops.

that said, i haven't even upgraded my pc in like 5+ years, and the last thing i did was put an ssd in it. i haven't upgraded the cpu, bios, ram, etc, in a very very long time. it's just because i don't need to. i don't game at all on pc. i do development on it, but what i have right now is good for that, i don't need anything else.

 

[BUTCH1]

Nope. It's bad policy to give others access to your data. If MS has access, everyone has access. *You also inexplicably lose your fourth amendment rights when you entrust your data to third parties.

*That's what happens when you let lawyers play word games, and twist things around so much, no one knows what's even being discussed anymore. Only a retard would think data one intends to be private doesn't mean that because it was entrusted to someone else for storage. Get a warrant, or GTFO...

Yea, who ever reads or for that matter understands an EULA when installing software, for apps it's even worse, EVERY app needs permission to EVERYTHING no matter what the app does. I solved that problem with my trusty $35 cell phone, it doesn't do "apps", although people look at me like I'm Barney Rubble when I use it LOL.

 

[lxskllr]

I solved that problem with my trusty $35 cell phone, it doesn't do "apps", although people look at me like I'm Barney Rubble when I use it LOL.

I 'need' a smart phone for work. Need of course means it's very, very useful, not necessary to life :^D I've firewalled or disabled most built in apps, and once I get around to flashing a custom recovery, I'll start removing apps completely.

I find mobile computing very irritating. Not only is it the shittiest form factor by every measure aside portability, it locks the user into a walled wasteland, and makes ordinary changes difficult. Everything is a half-assed implementation of a proper desktop app. I want the equivalent of an x86 computer in my pocket, with the only "locked" portions being telecom firmware. It's unfortunate that that's even the case, but it has to be that way by law.

 

[zerocool84]

I 'need' a smart phone for work. Need of course means it's very, very useful, not necessary to life :^D I've firewalled or disabled most built in apps, and once I get around to flashing a custom recovery, I'll start removing apps completely.

I find mobile computing very irritating. Not only is it the shittiest form factor by every measure aside portability, it locks the user into a walled wasteland, and makes ordinary changes difficult. Everything is a half-assed implementation of a proper desktop app. I want the equivalent of an x86 computer in my pocket, with the only "locked" portions being telecom firmware. It's unfortunate that that's even the case, but it has to be that way by law.

Of course it's half assed because it's not a true desktop operating system. We've had small versions of computers a phones and they've obviously all failed for a reason. What we have now is a good tradeoff between usability and portability.

 

[Shlong]

Back when I started building PC's, you actually saved money building - Celeron 300A overclocked to 450mhz (with a simple jumper change from 66mhz to 100mhz on motherboard) and you had performance of a Pentium 2 450mhz that costs hundreds of dollars more. There weren't many video card choices, Nvidia TNT, 3DFX Voodoo, and Matrox were basically it.

For my main rig, I did build it myself (overclocked watercooling) but for the other systems in the house, I just went will Dell's (good enough specs to run almost everything and comes with fully licensed Windows). For my next rig, I don't know if I will custom build again or not.

 

[notposting]

Back when I started building PC's, you actually saved money building - Celeron 300A overclocked to 450mhz (with a simple jumper change from 66mhz to 100mhz on motherboard) and you had performance of a Pentium 2 450mhz that costs hundreds of dollars more. There weren't many video card choices, Nvidia TNT, 3DFX Voodoo, and Matrox were basically it.

For my main rig, I did build it myself (overclocked watercooling) but for the other systems in the house, I just went will Dell's (good enough specs to run almost everything and comes with fully licensed Windows). For my next rig, I don't know if I will custom build again or not.

My parents and in-laws now have stock machines. Undoubtedly the next machine for the wife will be as well. Kids? Probably. I will likely do something custom, if only to make sure I have the expansion, power supply, and precise components included that I desire.

Outside of that I also don't have the time or patience anymore

 

[Eug]

I haven't built a custom PC as my main machine in over 15 years. It was with an Asus P2B and started with an overclocked Celeron 366. Then I upgraded it a bazillion times, all the way up to the Tualatin era at 1.4 GHz, which at the time was beating out the Pentium 4 that Intel was pushing.

Ever since then, I've bought pre-built Macs and PCs. I'm not a heavy gamer, and the light gaming I've done lately is fine on a console, or hell, sometimes even a phone most recently. For lower to mid-range PCs, it's actually cheaper to buy it pre-built, at least if you want a legit copy of Windows. And it's nice not having to troubleshoot everything yourself. Drop the machine off and let the service guys deal with it. I have upgraded those machines, and have built a few machines out of spare parts, but never a brand new machine as my primary machine since.

 

[Muse]

I still use my desktop (actually a mid tower), and I plan to upgrade it with a new mobo, CPU, RAM. It's my HTPC, sorely in need of new components, but it's not a burning issue, just one I want to deal with soon. I've built a few, have several laptops and use them a lot, but the HTPC is a must for me, it's my sole TV watching method.

 

[Eug]

A lot of people just buy pre-built SFF PCs as HTPCs. I had one used that way until I decided I hate HTPCs in general. I much prefer to use streaming boxes.

 

[RockinZ28]

Seems alive and well to me. Will build my own until I stop playing pc games. At that point, I wouldn't buy a desktop period.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It's already to that point. IT "people" are so lost, that they pay HP, Lenovo, Dell, etc., outrageous prices for proprietary hardware, just for the brand.

These people wouldn't know a RAM from a bull.

-John

That's more of a political reason and more dictated by management. Basically the company wants to have an external company to blame if something goes wrong. It's actually really childish, but it's how things work. Rather than custom building everything and getting your IT staff to do... IT work, you have everything prebuilt and setup by contractors/vendors and IT only do the dirty work that revolves around that like connecting the keyboard and mouse, or the typical stuff like backups and system maintenance, and then the rest is all meetings and other management crap. Heck, all the places I worked IT was not even allowed to touch code. Most programming is outsourced these days and they usually have contracts stopping anyone from doing anything in house.

I like Google's approach, most of their stuff is in house, they even use consumer grade hard drives for their server stuff. While some of the vendor stuff like Dell and IBM have crazy warranties that you simply can't get with prebuilt components, they charge so much and lock you into proprietary stuff that you're better off going in-house and just building more redundancy into your system and having more spares.

On other thought, custom building actual PCs for the company would probably be unrealistic unless it's a small company. Servers on the other hand are more realistic as you wont have as many. The biggest issue would be trying to source out parts that are all the same. Go on any site like Newegg and they might have 1-10 of a specific motherboard in stock only, then if you order more you get another revision or completely different motherboard because they only make so many till they change to another model. You simply can't pick a specific motherboard or other component and order 1000+ of them. No sites will have that many in stock or even let you, as a lot of them have limits of how much per person.

 

[JackBurton]

Used to build my machines, and found out the best part of it was specing components and building it. After it was built, the thrill was gone though. Had some fun times building machines and playing PC games, but taking an honest look back, it was just a waste of money and time. Now I just buy consoles for gaming and Macs for computer use. Waaaay better use of my time which I can then devote to my new hobby...stamp collecting. Way funner than building stupid PCs, but also way more expensive.

 

[Brainonska511]

Plus, if you want expansion possibilities down the road I've never found PCs from the big manufacturers acceptable because while I don't know how they do it now but in the past their motherboards were proprietary and had too many integrated things with limited expansion slots.....I could be wrong on this....but I'm still building my one. My first PC was the only one I bought ready to turn on.

I found that this depended on the line you bought from. The budget lines would have fewer expansion slots, fewer connections on the motherboard for extra drives, few (or no extra) slots for extra drives, and usually only 2 RAM slots. You'd generally need to buy a "budget" mid to high-end system if you wanted to upgrade yourself. And then you'd have the issue of proprietary PSUs, limiting you in the possible GPU choices...
----

I build my computers partly for being able to make them how I want (both in looks and hardware) and partly because I just like to do it. But I'll only build computers for myself and immediate family (from past experience, they won't run into trouble). Extended family or friends - I'll tell them to buy a mass-market machine (or at most, suggest some parts to consider if they wanted to build their own computer and actively asked for input).