Is pay grades of Generals public knowledge?

[magomago]

My friend is telling me that the gov can offer you WAAAAAY more money than private industry, which I know is B.S. But he called me out on "Generals" and I know there is no way they make millions of dollars a year. However, in order to prove him wrong that a smart person can EASILY make more in the private industry, I'm wondering if the pay grades of Generals (the highest in the US military, right?) are available.

Much thanks...

I googled and wikied and don't find anything pertaining to generals. I found some stuff for basic recruits, etc.

I know the Pres makes ~400K a year...so what do 3,4,5 star military generals make?


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Moved to OT at OP's request

Senior Anantech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[magomago]

oh crap this should be in OT...where I thought it posted it :X

Mod? Can you please move it?

 

[OrganizedChaos]

google came up with the following

"Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,000.10."

general = O-10

 

[nageov3t]

there is no way generals aren't doing more work for less money than they'd have being a figurehead / public speaker in the private sector.

 

[maluckey]

All military pay scales are open to the public. If you know how many years in service, pay grade and specialty identifiers then you can calculate the pay from the charts.

No secrets there.

If a General gives a talk as a General, then no, he can't get paid for it. If the same General is giving a talk about golf, then yes he will get paid. It's just that he can't get paid more than his pay grade/time/specialty allows for doing his job, but he can get as much as he wants off of the clock.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Just be aware that Generals receive a LOT of perks in addition to base pay. Even when I was in (1993ish) it wasn't uncommon for a 3star to be pulling in the equivalent of 20k a month once everything was figured in. Houses, travel, car, driver, cook, cleaning, etc. It all adds up.

That being said it's still way less than a big CEO or some such.

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypa...ilitaryPayCharts-1.pdf

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: magomago
My friend is telling me that the gov can offer you WAAAAAY more money than private industry, which I know is B.S.

At a certain level he is correct. For a basic recruit just out of high school they will probably earn more than they would in the private sector. As time goes on though you would be more likely to earn more in the private sector. Officers make considerably more than enlisted though, so it would depend on what sector you were in.

 

[toekramp]

private sector has a ton more money to be had, i work with govies every day, and while their benefits are terrific, their pay is shit compared to the civ world.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: toekramp
private sector has a ton more money to be had, i work with govies every day, and while their benefits are terrific, their pay is shit compared to the civ world.

The reason government pay is lower is the Reagan administration lowered salaries across the board to discourage public service in favor of private sector contracts. Special interests at work.

 

[IamElectro]

My uncle living in Germany retired form the Army after 25 years and they hired him back as a civilian for the same position at nearly 2x the salary.

Private sector is where the money is at.

 

[oddyager]

Originally posted by: toekramp
private sector has a ton more money to be had, i work with govies every day, and while their benefits are terrific, their pay is shit compared to the civ world.

Oddly enough in NYC, there are gaps depending on what position you're after. For example in IT, at the bottom of the totem pole (desktop support) you can make double the amount in private than in public but for network engineers you can actually make more (in shorter time) in public than in private.

 

[rbV5]

James Simons (Renaissance Technologies fund manager) pulled in $1.7 Billion in 2006. He could use all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff paychecks for toilet paper.

 

[Tiamat]

AFAIK, at least in AFRL, the division chiefs make about 105-115k, their boss (equivalent to 1-star gen) makes about 120-130k, and his boss (3-star) makes 150k+. They don't pull in more than 200k$ salary to my best knowledge.


After that is the Dept of Defense. The secretary probably makes 250+k, but that i dunno.

 

[Epic Fail]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: toekramp
private sector has a ton more money to be had, i work with govies every day, and while their benefits are terrific, their pay is shit compared to the civ world.

The reason government pay is lower is the Reagan administration lowered salaries across the board to discourage public service in favor of private sector contracts. Special interests at work.

Good for Reagan, less government is goodness.

 

[jarfykk]

http://www.defenselink.mil/mil...2007_apr_basicpay.html

Breakdown of all military pay grades.

Flag officers (i.e. Admirals, Generals) are n the O-7 through O-10 ranges (one higher grade is for time of war only, usually. Last used in WW2 if I recall).

For the US Army, a 1-star General (O-7) is called a Brigadier General, a 2-star is a Major General, 3-star is a Lieutenant General, and a 4-star is a General. Navy equivalents are Rear Admiral (Lower Half), Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral. US Marine Corps' and Air Force's titles mirror the Army's, but are abbreviated differently for ease of exposition.

There are a limited number of billets available at each level, and all require Senate approval after nomination from the Secretary of Defense.

So for a full, 4-star general officer (i.e. full Admiral or General), with 32 years in the service + a family of four, stationed in Washington DC, a realistic basic pay allotment would be along the lines of $168k/yr, plus housing allowance of $30-35k/yr, + food allowance of ~$3k...so in the neighborhood of $200k/yr is pretty normal.

Once you add in some other monetary perks like hazard pay for those in dangerous areas, those serving in NATO or other foreign billets, uniform reimbursement, and so on, you could reasonably have a salary of ~$300k for a 4-star officer.

Now keep in mind the number of 4-star officers is limited, by statute, to 32 total (for all services, broken down by "need"), but is often exceeded because certain positions require a 4-star officer and don't count against the 32-person cap, or by national emergency like the post-911 period. Currently around 45 4-stars if my last count is right.

A common pattern for retiring flag officers of all levels is to go work in the private sector afterwards. In my experience, they usually make at least double, often quite a bit more, of what they made in the service. Some often return to government service as civilians in various posts, often of higher salaries.

Federal service, on average, make 23% less salary than an equivalent private sector position. Some government jobs obviously have no equivalents, and vice versa. This is according to a November 2007 newsletter for federal employees. The pay-gap has increased over the years from around 15% in the early 1990s. However as a civil servant, particularly those who are permanent appointees, the job security is unmatched (can't be fired unless you do something BAD) and the benefits are good to very-good, particularly for uniformed and civilians who serve 30+ years get VERY good retirement. Civilians pay is changing quite a bit now, particularly with most the Defense Department shifting from the GS scale to one called NSPS...a lot of questions about its short and long-term impacts still.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: rbV5
James Simons (Renaissance Technologies fund manager) pulled in $1.7 Billion in 2006. He could use all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff paychecks for toilet paper.

What does that have to do with the topic of the thread?

 

[Vic]

Government jobs only appear to pay less on paper. After perks, benefits, etc., they almost always pay more.
Public school teachers usually make more than their private school counterparts, and get fully paid benefits, full retirement, etc.
Police and fire in my city frequently double their annual salary with overtime (6 figures are common), and have a fully-funded retirement system.
Military might look like its pays poorly on paper, but there are bonuses and perks up the ying-yang, from hazard to housing and a whole lot more. Plus fully-paid benefits for you and your dependents and full retirement with lifetime benefits after a mere 20 years of service.

In short, between the overtime, security, benefits, and retirement, the public service "pay gap" is a myth.

 

[CPA]

Am I the only one who initially read the Topic as: "is gay parades of Generals public knowledge?"

 

[Wapp]

Originally posted by: Vic
Government jobs only appear to pay less on paper. After perks, benefits, etc., they almost always pay more.
Public school teachers usually make more than their private school counterparts, and get fully paid benefits, full retirement, etc.
Police and fire in my city frequently double their annual salary with overtime (6 figures are common), and have a fully-funded retirement system.
Military might look like its pays poorly on paper, but there are bonuses and perks up the ying-yang, from hazard to housing and a whole lot more. Plus fully-paid benefits for you and your dependents and full retirement with lifetime benefits after a mere 20 years of service.

In short, between the overtime, security, benefits, and retirement, the public service "pay gap" is a myth.

In the private sector I get 15 days of paid time off a year not including the 8 holidays. While on active duty I had 30 days off a year plus all major holidays and 1-2 "family days" each month.

I miss active duty. =(

 

[Spikesoldier]

Originally posted by: Vic
Government jobs only appear to pay less on paper. After perks, benefits, etc., they almost always pay more.
Public school teachers usually make more than their private school counterparts, and get fully paid benefits, full retirement, etc.
Police and fire in my city frequently double their annual salary with overtime (6 figures are common), and have a fully-funded retirement system.
Military might look like its pays poorly on paper, but there are bonuses and perks up the ying-yang, from hazard to housing and a whole lot more. Plus fully-paid benefits for you and your dependents and full retirement with lifetime benefits after a mere 20 years of service.

In short, between the overtime, security, benefits, and retirement, the public service "pay gap" is a myth.

very true

the younger audience is less attracted to these benefits that the federal government offers which is why this 'pay' gap appears enormous for some (younger) people.

public service is excellent for those who have come to take the job security, and financial solidarity of the military/federal government for granted. at least for the fact that uncle sam's signature is on the paycheck, are never late, and that his checks never bounce.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: CPA
Am I the only one who initially read the Topic as: "is gay parades of Generals public knowledge?"

You are not alone.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Vic
Government jobs only appear to pay less on paper. After perks, benefits, etc., they almost always pay more.
Public school teachers usually make more than their private school counterparts, and get fully paid benefits, full retirement, etc.
Police and fire in my city frequently double their annual salary with overtime (6 figures are common), and have a fully-funded retirement system.
Military might look like its pays poorly on paper, but there are bonuses and perks up the ying-yang, from hazard to housing and a whole lot more. Plus fully-paid benefits for you and your dependents and full retirement with lifetime benefits after a mere 20 years of service.

In short, between the overtime, security, benefits, and retirement, the public service "pay gap" is a myth.

Don't forget to factor in the joyous fact that one doesn't have to actually do anything. Pay raises come with length of service, no one cares if you show up an hour or two late, and your Thursday due date is really two Thursdays from now.

I'm sorry, but I'll take my larger private paycheck, sans all those wonderful benefits, as my performance is actually rewarded, not discouraged.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Spikesoldier

Originally posted by: Vic
Government jobs only appear to pay less on paper. After perks, benefits, etc., they almost always pay more.
Public school teachers usually make more than their private school counterparts, and get fully paid benefits, full retirement, etc.
Police and fire in my city frequently double their annual salary with overtime (6 figures are common), and have a fully-funded retirement system.
Military might look like its pays poorly on paper, but there are bonuses and perks up the ying-yang, from hazard to housing and a whole lot more. Plus fully-paid benefits for you and your dependents and full retirement with lifetime benefits after a mere 20 years of service.

In short, between the overtime, security, benefits, and retirement, the public service "pay gap" is a myth.

very true

the younger audience is less attracted to these benefits that the federal government offers which is why this 'pay' gap appears enormous for some (younger) people.

public service is excellent for those who have come to take the job security, and financial solidarity of the military/federal government for granted. at least for the fact that uncle sam's signature is on the paycheck, are never late, and that his checks never bounce.

Never late? It took me 1 month (on a bi-weekly pay schedule) to receive my first check, and two months to receive my last.

 

[shiner]

Is you is or is you aint my baby