is onboard vga always bad regardless?

[RobCur]

most motherboard have gotten ridden of onboard vga because it degrades cpu performance as well.
have stability issue and very picky on type of ram used.. the thought of having onboard vga is great but it must be fast enough to not lag you to the point of unable to play any divxs without pauses and stutters..
like this one http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-430R&type=Refurbish

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: RobCur
most motherboard have gotten ridden of onboard vga because it degrades cpu performance as well.
have stability issue and very picky on type of ram used.. the thought of having onboard vga is great but it must be fast enough to not lag you to the point of unable to play any divxs without pauses and stutters..
like this one http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-430R&type=Refurbish

I thought we kinda went over that in this thread.

 

[xbassman]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: RobCur
most motherboard have gotten ridden of onboard vga because it degrades cpu performance as well.
have stability issue and very picky on type of ram used.. the thought of having onboard vga is great but it must be fast enough to not lag you to the point of unable to play any divxs without pauses and stutters..
like this one http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-430R&type=Refurbish

I thought we kinda went over that in this thread.

Hey mechBgon, that forum link was a funny read!
It kinda reminded me of some wrong decisions I made with the first couple of boxes I built.
Except I speak hillbilly a little more fluently!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

is onboard vga always bad regardless?

No. I had a Soltek SL-75MRN-L with G4MX440 IGP that ran a Barton2500+@2.43ghz 422DC-DDR synch mode and with the IGP core overclocked to 265mhz with stock NB cooler scored 6000+ in 3Dmock2k1se, played games with lower res and settings just fine, had exceptable 2D IQ, and never had any trouble with any media playback. I paid $89 for it when most nF2 boards were still well over $100 and the A1/C1 chipset was just beginning to appear. There wasn't a board+add-in card on the market that could touch it for that price, 'nuff said?

 

[RobCur]

in my experience having onboard lags everything greatly on a celeron 1.1ghz.. there was a major boost when it was disabled and inserted a low end vga card..
sharing bandwidth with dimm is the culprit of it all. if they would give its own sdram or ddr it would kickass!

 

[mudboy]

I have a hard time understanding why everyone says OMG OMG OH NOES ONBORDE AUD10/V1D3O/LAN/TOOTHBRUSHES IS TEH SUXORS

For the majority of PC users (and WE are NOT the majority), onboard video is just fine. They don't play games, their needs are modest, and onboard video is just fine. nForce and ATI onboard video is actually pretty good. If I was going to build a PC for my dad, I would use onboard video with no worries.

Pete

 

[Peter]

Right. Building something adequate for the target audience, that's the art here.

And there are lots and lots of computer users who couldn't care less about graphics performance - office users, people who have a home computer to get stuff done not play games, small kids playing their slow and simple games, etc. etc. These are very well served with an all-in-one mainboard, and will be happy to hear how much cheaper their computer can be.

 

[santroph]

Well i don't agree. i have a old celerom 400 with 128Kb of cache, running at 600 in a ASUS MEW-RM (i810) with 258 of pc-100 sdram, and it plays all my divx fine. This pc was an old pc that was with my dad.
Now he uses a duron 1800 with a GF3 ti500 on a ASUS A7N266-VM (wich has onbard video) and 512 DDR400 samsung RAM, he used the new board with onboard vídeo for two months and all runned ans runs fine.
I have the same MOBO (A7N266-VM) in my work with 512 DDR333 samsung RAM and a Athlon 2400+ stock. I have to say that ALL of those 3 pcs when using the onbard video, runnned fine everything, from DVD to Divx.
U just have to have a well configured pc to have everything fine.
The cel still runs fine for me, but now like a small linux server (with the onboard video too).

 

[3chordcharlie]

back in the days of rageII+ playing videos with onboard vga was a problem.. but any P2 or higher, with almost any onboard video can handle dvd, divx and the like. I play videos just as smoothly on a p2-300 LAPTOP with an ancient neomagic 256av video chipset as on an athlon xp system with GF4mx. If you want clear graphics at SXGA or above, or if you want to play games, the story changes, but onboard video does what it is supposed to - provide a passable, affordable solution for those without special video needs.

 

[Jhhnn]

In truth, the Intel extreme graphics is the weakest integrated solution available, compared to offerings from Via, Nvidia, Ati, SiS...

Here's one that should satisfy all but the most ardent gamers-

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2004/gigabyte/K8S760M/K8S760M-1.htm

Separate 64meg frame buffer, Integrated everything, except modem, should be hell on wheels for mid range home and office boxes...

Currently only one vendor on Froogle, but there'll be more- $113...

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: RobCur
in my experience having onboard lags everything greatly on a celeron 1.1ghz.. there was a major boost when it was disabled and inserted a low end vga card..
sharing bandwidth with dimm is the culprit of it all. if they would give its own sdram or ddr it would kickass!

i think games lagged because of the celeron.

 

[lycurgus]

Just to add my 2 cents, based on my personal experience with using integrated on an MSI K7N2G-L (nForce2) I would say there are exceptions to the 'integrated sux' theory, and nForce2 is such an exception. The fact is that there's no much use for the additional memory bandwidth of dual channel DDR except for integrated video. However I'm sure a lot of integrated video really is poor, and depends too heavily on the processor. Since integrated is usually found on 'bargain' systems, the processor might not be up to handling it very well.

 

[Zap]

LOL, a Coppermine Celeron 1.1 on an Intel 810 chipset board is a bit weak on the video performance side, but should be able to play Divx video unless it was using a huge bitrate or had too much stuff running in the background (are you sure you're not infected with something? Your system could be sending out millions of spam in the background without you noticing).

The last system I had that was choppy in Divx playback was my Shuttle SV24 with a VIA C3 866 CPU that was passively cooled. It ran videos fine until I encountered one that was encoded with a really high bitrate.

 

[RobCur]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: RobCur
in my experience having onboard lags everything greatly on a celeron 1.1ghz.. there was a major boost when it was disabled and inserted a low end vga card..
sharing bandwidth with dimm is the culprit of it all. if they would give its own sdram or ddr it would kickass!

i think games lagged because of the celeron.

i had to get rid of that mobo because it was defective and HSF that are medium-large would not fit in the socket, since it was all crammed up. thought I have celeron 1.1ghz fcpga, it ran very well but sadly I had to toss it in the trashcan seeing how hard it is to use AMD HSF with celeron on most any mobo.

 

[RobCur]

Originally posted by: lycurgus
Just to add my 2 cents, based on my personal experience with using integrated on an MSI K7N2G-L (nForce2) I would say there are exceptions to the 'integrated sux' theory, and nForce2 is such an exception. The fact is that there's no much use for the additional memory bandwidth of dual channel DDR except for integrated video. However I'm sure a lot of integrated video really is poor, and depends too heavily on the processor. Since integrated is usually found on 'bargain' systems, the processor might not be up to handling it very well.

so not only that it shares bandwidth with your cpu, it also steals processes from the processor ?or cpu cycle being cut to a fraction of it's potential? that is really bad, sounds like a vga emulator to me. onboard video = softvideo just like soft56k modem. it will often crash the whole system as well if it is even a little exerted. I have plenty of video card laying around, got it for 16 bucks each. its geforce2 mx200 16mb agp4x, plenty fast. how does one try to save only a little just to put up with onboard vga hell?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: RobCur

Originally posted by: lycurgus
Just to add my 2 cents, based on my personal experience with using integrated on an MSI K7N2G-L (nForce2) I would say there are exceptions to the 'integrated sux' theory, and nForce2 is such an exception. The fact is that there's no much use for the additional memory bandwidth of dual channel DDR except for integrated video. However I'm sure a lot of integrated video really is poor, and depends too heavily on the processor. Since integrated is usually found on 'bargain' systems, the processor might not be up to handling it very well.

so not only that it shares bandwidth with your cpu, it also steals processes from the processor ?or cpu cycle being cut to a fraction of it's potential? that is really bad, sounds like a vga emulator to me. onboard video = softvideo just like soft56k modem. it will often crash the whole system as well if it is even a little exerted. I have plenty of video card laying around, got it for 16 bucks each. its geforce2 mx200 16mb agp4x, plenty fast. how does one try to save only a little just to put up with onboard vga hell?

My nF2 IGP would lay a hard smackdown on that add-in G2MX you have I can produce benchmarks from that setup that show a Barton@2.43ghz opening a can o' whupa$$ in benchies too so your argument about stability, resource hogging, ect. is nonsense in the case of the nF2 IGP at least. Deal with it, or don't Rob, but the facts is IGP can be very good from a price-to-performance/system performance ratio.

 

[Peter]

RobCur, the only chipset ever to do VGA in software was ye olde Cyrix MediaGX, later renamed to NatSemi Geode, now moved to AMD. But even that one did only legacy VGA emulation; as soon as a graphics mode was entered, it was back to native hardware engine graphics. Mind, this is an extreme low power system, three watts for the entire thing - CPU, chipset, graphics. No other chipset ever did that - graphics units have ever been fully hardware implemented.

Same for the crash proneness. Integrated VGA chipsets are just more revealing when it comes to crap RAM. Give them a DIMM that actually works, and it'll crash no more no less than anything else.

 

[RobCur]

but why is pcchips no longer make onboard vga on their motherboard?
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-185-010&depa=0

 

[Peter]

On "their" motherboard? They're making a tad more than one model.

Last time I counted (a minute ago), PC-Chips had 41 active mainboard products, 23 of which have chipset integrated, shared-RAM VGA. Two have onboard, discrete, dedicated-RAM graphics, the remaining ones are w/o onboard graphics.

No more fact-bending please.

 

[RobCur]

you are on onboard vga lover or addicts so I can't blame you for that