Is Offshoring The Major Reason For IT Unemployment?

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Yahoo! News, Technology - Techweb

Some observers tracking the U.S. labor force question whether outsourcing IT development overseas has contributed to the relatively high IT unemployment rate.

The impact offshore outsourcing had on the IT unemployment rate, which averaged 5.8% during the first nine months of 2003, was likely minimal, they say. Still, they caution that offshore outsourcing could play a larger role in IT unemployment if steps aren't taken to upgrade domestic business-technology skills.


In the years between the end of the recession in the mid-1990s and the dot-bust of 2000, IT unemployment hovered around 2%, while overall joblessness averaged several percentage points higher. Now, the difference is three-tenths of a percentage point, with the overall unemployment rate for the first nine months of the year averaging 6.1%.


Yet, the perception exists that IT unemployment is higher because of all the talk about offshore outsourcing, says Ken Goldstein, an economist at the Conference Board (news - web sites), a big-business trade organization. "I'd bet if you took a survey, most people would think the IT unemployment average is higher than the overall average because all they're hearing about software development is being outsourced to Delhi or Calcutta," Goldstein says.


Much of offshore outsourcing involves programming, and the unemployment rate for programmers during the first nine months of 2003 averaged 7.1%, the highest among all categories of IT workers. In addition, the type of computing outsourced overseas doesn't necessarily require the latest technology skills. With younger IT pros more likely than their older cohorts to master new skills, it's the aging technologists with dated skills who are most threatened by offshore outsourcing. Indeed, IT unemployment increases with age, with nearly 6.9% of workers in their 50s unemployed.


Offshore outsourcing and growing obsolescence of technical skills haven't reached a crisis level yet, but higher IT unemployment serves as a warning sign that steps need to be taken by to improve skills, says Thomas Kochan, an MIT management professor. Those involved in IT--user companies, vendors, trade associations, and educational institutions--must devise ways to nurture the profession, he says.


"It hasn't reached the danger level; we have a window of time, five or 10 years, for IT professionals to sit down and talk about what it'll take to maintain the knowledge and skills of the workforce," Kochan says. "Nothing is preordained."
 

rjain

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May 1, 2003
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Interesting that my company, a programming consulting company, is actively hiring. 4 people in the past week have started here.
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: rjain
Interesting that my company, a programming consulting company, is actively hiring. 4 people in the past week have started here.
Cool, maybe now you won't have to work all those extra hours for free!
 

rjain

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May 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: rjain
Interesting that my company, a programming consulting company, is actively hiring. 4 people in the past week have started here.
Cool, maybe now you won't have to work all those extra hours for free!
We work on specific projects, so the fact that we're hiring doesn't mean that there will be more people on my project. But it turns out that we have expanded the size of the project I'm on, so yes, we will be properly staffed once these guys get up to speed.
 

roboninja

Senior member
Dec 7, 2000
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I'm sure it is not THE reason for the unemployment, but it cannot help. When 10,000 IT jobs are moved out of the country, that's 10,000 people without a job.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
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Just like when 10,000 manufacturing jobs are moved out of the state, that's 10,000 people without a job. Why isn't anyone complaining about the huge job losses that NJ is facing due to the hardships being placed upon the pharmaceutical industry? All in the name of cheaper access to drugs.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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I seem to remember back in the 80's people were all up in arms about the Japanese taking over all our industies and such - that didn't "ruin" us. I guess the focus of that rant has now revived itself but moved to a different geographical target:) I think people just like to bitch about things. Sure it sucks that jobs are going overseas but I don't think this time it'll turn out too differently than it did in the 80's with the Japan whining. Yes we need to protect American jobs, but lets not get so wrapped up in the issue that we don't see anything but the supposed "bad" stuff.

CkG
 

Talon

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Oct 29, 1999
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Outsourcing doesn't always mean that the jobs are leaving the country. In far too many cases, the jobs remain in country and the American workers are replaced by cheaper imported labour. In some cases, the domestic employees are even asked to train their foreign replacements.

Text
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
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i thought it was becuase everyone figured out how to work their machines.

actually, i think a lot of it might have to do with some of the business practices. i know a lot of people in this industry that "get paid to do nothing" in their own words and have seen the truth of this myself. not to say thats accounts for 100% of the cuts...but...the IT industry was saturated with people that were getting paid very well to hardly use the technical skills they had and i think companies began to notice. of course, i think outsourcing helped the larger companies.

 

dmcowen674

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Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I seem to remember back in the 80's people were all up in arms about the Japanese taking over all our industies and such - that didn't "ruin" us. I guess the focus of that rant has now revived itself but moved to a different geographical target:) I think people just like to bitch about things. Sure it sucks that jobs are going overseas but I don't think this time it'll turn out too differently than it did in the 80's with the Japan whining. Yes we need to protect American jobs, but lets not get so wrapped up in the issue that we don't see anything but the supposed "bad" stuff.

CkG

That's the 2nd time you brought up the Japan issue. It is not the same. They made cheaper and in most ways, better cars and electronics that made this Country wake up and get off it's butt, which it did. Now the butt is no longer here but has been kicked overseas.


 

rjain

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May 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674

That's the 2nd time you brought up the Japan issue. It is not the same. They made cheaper and in most ways, better cars and electronics that made this Country wake up and get off it's butt, which it did. Now the butt is no longer here but has been kicked overseas.
So the American consumer is no longer American?
Edit: Dave, the more times I read what you said, the less sense it makes. What of the Japanese auto manufacturing system was in the US? (If you say the assembly, that's wrong, because they were assembled in Japan at the time.)
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I seem to remember back in the 80's people were all up in arms about the Japanese taking over all our industies and such - that didn't "ruin" us. I guess the focus of that rant has now revived itself but moved to a different geographical target:) I think people just like to bitch about things. Sure it sucks that jobs are going overseas but I don't think this time it'll turn out too differently than it did in the 80's with the Japan whining. Yes we need to protect American jobs, but lets not get so wrapped up in the issue that we don't see anything but the supposed "bad" stuff.

CkG

That's the 2nd time you brought up the Japan issue. It is not the same. They made cheaper and in most ways, better cars and electronics that made this Country wake up and get off it's butt, which it did. Now the butt is no longer here but has been kicked overseas.

Actually it's the first time I've brought up this Japan issue. The other one was about post WW2 reconstruction - that isn't what this is about. Do you not remember the big uproar in the 80's? I was real young but even I remember it. It is the same as now - and it'll end up turning out the same. People whined about overseas companies destroying all our jobs...blah...blah...blah...but what it did was kick us in the arse - just like the current situation will do. Innovation is the key. I'm not sure what your insinuation that there isn't a "butt to kick" is all about. Do we not have workers and companies here? Do you really think everything is going overseas? No - it's not. There are plenty of companies that are staying here - and we need to take care in making sure they stay here. I'm sure some will bitch though when we give "big evil businesses" incentives to stay here. I can hear the chant of "corporate welfare" already.

People can't have it both ways.

CkG
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I seem to remember back in the 80's people were all up in arms about the Japanese taking over all our industies and such - that didn't "ruin" us. I guess the focus of that rant has now revived itself but moved to a different geographical target:) I think people just like to bitch about things. Sure it sucks that jobs are going overseas but I don't think this time it'll turn out too differently than it did in the 80's with the Japan whining. Yes we need to protect American jobs, but lets not get so wrapped up in the issue that we don't see anything but the supposed "bad" stuff.

CkG

That's the 2nd time you brought up the Japan issue. It is not the same. They made cheaper and in most ways, better cars and electronics that made this Country wake up and get off it's butt, which it did. Now the butt is no longer here but has been kicked overseas.

Actually it's the first time I've brought up this Japan issue. The other one was about post WW2 reconstruction - that isn't what this is about. Do you not remember the big uproar in the 80's? I was real young but even I remember it. It is the same as now - and it'll end up turning out the same. People whined about overseas companies destroying all our jobs...blah...blah...blah...but what it did was kick us in the arse - just like the current situation will do. Innovation is the key. I'm not sure what your insinuation that there isn't a "butt to kick" is all about. Do we not have workers and companies here? Do you really think everything is going overseas? No - it's not. There are plenty of companies that are staying here - and we need to take care in making sure they stay here. I'm sure some will bitch though when we give "big evil businesses" incentives to stay here. I can hear the chant of "corporate welfare" already.

People can't have it both ways.

CkG

We're on the same page. The difference this time is the Companies themselves. They are staying here in name only.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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www.alienbabeltech.com
I can't PM back since the subscription servers went offline,

From Dirtboy PM:

How many people have you helped Dave? You run a corporation, DSLModemsDirect, don't you? You are a greedy business owner yourself. I'm sure you rake in all the profits and horde them. How many unemployed IT people have you hired lately? There are 10's of thousands of people who need jobs and you should give them one. Last I checked you had three employees. C'mon Dave, you can do better than that. People need jobs you know. And you should pay for their healthcare while you're at it, unless you're too greedy too. Do you pay full benefits to your employees now? No, probably not. Do you take every extra cent you earn to buy healthcare and drugs for those who can't? No, probably not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would read first you would see the opening of DSLModemsDirect was because of the Greedy Monopoly Phone Companies and their tactics forcing Consumers to only get DSL Modems from them.

I as well as other American DSL Industry Critics didn't think there would be an impact and a change in their policy for at least a year but it happened within 6 months of my going live. As of July 2003 you can now go down to most of the Major Retailers such as MicroCenter, CompUSA etc and buy a DSL Modem. You could not do that prior to me opening DSLModemsDirect.

Absolutely, if I was selling thousands of Modems a month I would employ as many people as I can and they would be treated as best as I can because I would not be in business without them. The people are number one, both the Customer and the Employees that serve them.

If that ever happened I can guarantee you would want to work for my Company too.

So your answer is I have helped every American gain access to the Internet.


 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I can't PM back since the subscription servers went offline,

From Dirtboy PM:

How many people have you helped Dave? You run a corporation, DSLModemsDirect, don't you? You are a greedy business owner yourself. I'm sure you rake in all the profits and horde them. How many unemployed IT people have you hired lately? There are 10's of thousands of people who need jobs and you should give them one. Last I checked you had three employees. C'mon Dave, you can do better than that. People need jobs you know. And you should pay for their healthcare while you're at it, unless you're too greedy too. Do you pay full benefits to your employees now? No, probably not. Do you take every extra cent you earn to buy healthcare and drugs for those who can't? No, probably not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would read first you would see the opening of DSLModemsDirect was because of the Greedy Monopoly Phone Companies and their tactics forcing Consumers to only get DSL Modems from them.

I as well as other American DSL Industry Critics didn't think there would be an impact and a change in their policy for at least a year but it happened within 6 months of my going live. As of July 2003 you can now go down to most of the Major Retailers such as MicroCenter, CompUSA etc and buy a DSL Modem. You could not do that prior to me opening DSLModemsDirect.

Absolutely, if I was selling thousands of Modems a month I would employ as many people as I can and they would be treated as best as I can because I would not be in business without them. The people are number one, both the Customer and the Employees that serve them.

If that ever happened I can guarantee you would want to work for my Company too.

So your answer is I have helped every American gain access to the Internet.

So we have people that need food, jobs and healthcare, and the best you can come up with is that you help everyone gain access to the web? haha Hey, I noticed you sell Zoom modems. I checked up on them and they recorded big profits this last quarter. I also noticed that they didn't hire a bunch of people or give that money to those who need it. Funny how you hate corporate greed so much, yet you are helping the "rich get richer" as you say.

Do tell me where are all of the components for Zoom modems made? Are they 100% American made? If not, you are also supporting American jobs going overseas. Tsk tsk.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
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They can't just be 100% American made. All the raw materials have to be from America, too.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I can't PM back since the subscription servers went offline,

From Dirtboy PM:

How many people have you helped Dave? You run a corporation, DSLModemsDirect, don't you? You are a greedy business owner yourself. I'm sure you rake in all the profits and horde them. How many unemployed IT people have you hired lately? There are 10's of thousands of people who need jobs and you should give them one. Last I checked you had three employees. C'mon Dave, you can do better than that. People need jobs you know. And you should pay for their healthcare while you're at it, unless you're too greedy too. Do you pay full benefits to your employees now? No, probably not. Do you take every extra cent you earn to buy healthcare and drugs for those who can't? No, probably not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would read first you would see the opening of DSLModemsDirect was because of the Greedy Monopoly Phone Companies and their tactics forcing Consumers to only get DSL Modems from them.

I as well as other American DSL Industry Critics didn't think there would be an impact and a change in their policy for at least a year but it happened within 6 months of my going live. As of July 2003 you can now go down to most of the Major Retailers such as MicroCenter, CompUSA etc and buy a DSL Modem. You could not do that prior to me opening DSLModemsDirect.

Absolutely, if I was selling thousands of Modems a month I would employ as many people as I can and they would be treated as best as I can because I would not be in business without them. The people are number one, both the Customer and the Employees that serve them.

If that ever happened I can guarantee you would want to work for my Company too.

So your answer is I have helped every American gain access to the Internet.

So we have people that need food, jobs and healthcare, and the best you can come up with is that you help everyone gain access to the web? haha Hey, I noticed you sell Zoom modems. I checked up on them and they recorded big profits this last quarter. I also noticed that they didn't hire a bunch of people or give that money to those who need it. Funny how you hate corporate greed so much, yet you are helping the "rich get richer" as you say.

Do tell me where are all of the components for Zoom modems made? Are they 100% American made? If not, you are also supporting American jobs going overseas. Tsk tsk.

It's an American Company based in Boston. They have been hurt by Policies allowed to take place in the U.S. that shouldn't be allowed in a free market Democratic but they have perserveered.

I have a lot to be proud of in what I have done in the Electronics, Telecom and Computer Industry.

Again, what have you've done? Are you doing your best to contribute to Mankind or just busy spouting off and trying to belittle those that have contributed here? It certainly looks like the latter.



 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Again, what have you've done? Are you doing your best to contribute to Mankind or just busy spouting off and trying to belittle those that have contributed here? It certainly looks like the latter.
And what are you doing here other than belittling those who have contributed to keeping the American economy afloat by finding ways to reduce their costs, allowing them to reduce their prices? And then you go and buy their products and support those evil furriners who are eating your babies by working for lower wages and not wanting your religion to be dominating a supposedly secular government. If you're going to be ideological, at least follow your ideology.
*puts the rant switch in the "off" position*
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Again, what have you've done? Are you doing your best to contribute to Mankind or just busy spouting off and trying to belittle those that have contributed here? It certainly looks like the latter.

What have I done? I've gone out and worked my butt off so I can make alot of money and have the toys in life I want. I pay a boat load of taxes, which helps support many people.

I do all that so you can come here and cry that I am too rich and that I should pay more taxes to support your socialistic ideals.

I don't see how you've contributed, unless you consider trying to push your blatently unsupported and unfounded foolish beliefs on to others without substantiating your claims.