Is Obama being clear in regards to his exit plan for Iraq?

[bamacre]

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

So, no permanent bases in Iraq, but there will be an "embassy."

Of course, the "Embassy" is already being built...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...ited_States_in_Baghdad

You can call that an "embassy" all you want. But it sure as hell seems like its more than an embassy, even if you can't call it a "base."

The compound will comprise 21 buildings on 104 acres (42 ha), making it the largest and most expensive U.S. embassy in the world.

I just gotta say, "WTF." 😕

 

[StageLeft]

That embassy is ridonkulous, no doubt about it. I don't know about this 16 month timeline, sounds a bit like something bad would happen after.

 

[maddogchen]

i don't believe any of the candidates in their plans for withdrawal. 16 months. HA! whatever. I see McCain's 100 years as more realistic than Obama's 16 months.

 

[magomago]

I want to agree with maddog Chen

If he serious about 16 months...WOW Obama just made the right decision. But I'll honestly hold my breath until he does something...because a timetable (despite the fact that many in our and their country want one) , is something that no one wants to define.

Although I was also thinking when I saw your topic title "You know...that fucking beast of an embassy might as well be a base on its own right"

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
i don't believe any of the candidates in their plans for withdrawal. 16 months. HA! whatever. I see McCain's 100 years as more realistic than Obama's 16 months.

We fought the spanish over 100 years ago. Last I checked the US bases in Cuba and the PI were still there and the country hasn't crumbled.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: maddogchen
i don't believe any of the candidates in their plans for withdrawal. 16 months. HA! whatever. I see McCain's 100 years as more realistic than Obama's 16 months.

We fought the spanish over 100 years ago. Last I checked the US bases in Cuba and the PI were still there and the country hasn't crumbled.

funny how in both we used a lie to go to war, no?

and interestingly enough after reading the page I found this little caveat:

if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

This just might be invoked to keep troops there....stay tuned folks

 

[Moonbeam]

Iraq is a disaster. We should never have gone to war there. But we did and now we're screwed. There is now no easy or painless way out. Any real answer you chose would cost you an election so you mumble something and deal with the painful reality after you get elected. If Obama wins we will have for the first time in the war a thinking President who will take the best advise he can. Bush fucked us and we're not going to get unfucked very easily. Obama is the right answer to a horrible mess but it is still going to be a mess in my opinion. There will be huge downsides to anything we do and we will have to do something.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Iraq is a disaster. We should never have gone to war there. But we did and now we're screwed. There is now no easy or painless way out. Any real answer you chose would cost you an election so you mumble something and deal with the painful reality after you get elected. If Obama wins we will have for the first time in the war a thinking President who will take the best advise he can. Bush fucked us and we're not going to get unfucked very easily. Obama is the right answer to a horrible mess but it is still going to be a mess in my opinion. There will be huge downsides to anything we do and we will have to do something.

What shit are you smoking skippy. The problem with iraq was that bush took the advice and let cheney and herr rummy run the war.

 

[Painman]

Keeping troops in Greater Arabia is gonna be bad news - I don't think it's weak to yank them out of there, we can't fight 500+ years of historical context that still matter to these people. 99.9% of Muslims in the Arab world just want to make a living and raise their kids just like we do, but it needs to be made clear that we're going to blow the crap out of the other .01% if they decide to get cocky and make a blip on the radar. We can probably do that from Diego Garcia.

Pakistan is gonna be the far more serious dilemma from here on out IMO.

 

[rockyct]

I think NOT having an uber-fortified embassy in Iraq would be a bad idea. Whatever troops who are going to be in the compound probably aren't going to be patrolling the streets, so what does it matter?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: rockyct
I think NOT having an uber-fortified embassy in Iraq would be a bad idea.

Why?

Whatever troops who are going to be in the compound probably aren't going to be patrolling the streets, so what does it matter?

It may matter because Iraqi's may not feel they are a sovereign country with a 104-acre US compound in the heart of their country. They may always wonder who really governs them.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Iraq is a disaster. We should never have gone to war there. But we did and now we're screwed. There is now no easy or painless way out. Any real answer you chose would cost you an election so you mumble something and deal with the painful reality after you get elected. If Obama wins we will have for the first time in the war a thinking President who will take the best advise he can. Bush fucked us and we're not going to get unfucked very easily. Obama is the right answer to a horrible mess but it is still going to be a mess in my opinion. There will be huge downsides to anything we do and we will have to do something.

What shit are you smoking skippy. The problem with iraq was that bush took the advice and let cheney and herr rummy run the war.

What shit am I smoking skippy? I guess that means you a cool, smooth talker and I'm some sort of dummy. Of course there are those who might argue that I presented a real case and you said absolutely nothing. Did you by any chance read my sig. I've seen you in one form or another thousands of times.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Iraq is a disaster. We should never have gone to war there. But we did and now we're screwed. There is now no easy or painless way out. Any real answer you chose would cost you an election so you mumble something and deal with the painful reality after you get elected. If Obama wins we will have for the first time in the war a thinking President who will take the best advise he can. Bush fucked us and we're not going to get unfucked very easily. Obama is the right answer to a horrible mess but it is still going to be a mess in my opinion. There will be huge downsides to anything we do and we will have to do something.

What shit are you smoking skippy. The problem with iraq was that bush took the advice and let cheney and herr rummy run the war.

What kinda ludicrous Quaalude's are you popping there pimpy? Did you miss out on the reasons for the war in Iraq? How it wasn't tied to 9/11 yet we still went? Have you given any thought to removing ourselves from there immediately and permanently?

On the topic of the OP, that "embassy" is going to stick out like beacon of American imperialism. We want it there, not to maintain peace, but to provoke an attack. Why would they want such a thing? War is very profitable, ask the MIC.

 

[JSt0rm]

well thats the current presidents idea of an embassy. i'm sure it could be bulldozed and a real embassy could be put up in some area of the capitol near the government buildings

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
well thats the current presidents idea of an embassy. i'm sure it could be bulldozed and a real embassy could be put up in some area of the capitol near the government buildings

That's not gonna happen. And it wasn't just the "president's idea," as Congress approved its financing.

 

[JSt0rm]

Ohh your right I forgot about the "big iraq embassy bill" it was like 1 page long. ohh nm those don't exist. I'm sure it was buried in a 250 billion dollar spending package. I mean i don't even review my credit card bills I just pay off the balance every month. I couldn't imagine actually reading one of those bills.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Ohh your right I forgot about the "big iraq embassy bill" it was like 1 page long. ohh nm those don't exist. I'm sure it was buried in a 250 billion dollar spending package. I mean i don't even review my credit card bills I just pay off the balance every month. I couldn't imagine actually reading one of those bills.

So it's alright if Congress signs blank checks every year, because it's too difficult to know what they're paying for? BTW, when are they going to raise our taxes again? Ignorance is bliss, unless of course you can't pay your bills.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm just saying somebody knew they would slide this thing into a bill. All that war money could of just been used to heat homes by tossing it in a furnace anyhow. Hopefully the taxes will be raised on the upper class soon and the middle class can see a bit of relief, hopefully soon we might see some fiscal responsibility, hopefully soon the dollar will be worth a little more but I guarantee we will never have a congress that actually reads through all these ear marked bills no matter what the taxes are.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I'm just saying somebody knew they would slide this thing into a bill. All that war money could of just been used to heat homes by tossing it in a furnace anyhow. Hopefully the taxes will be raised on the upper class soon and the middle class can see a bit of relief, hopefully soon we might see some fiscal responsibility, hopefully soon the dollar will be worth a little more but I guarantee we will never have a congress that actually reads through all these ear marked bills no matter what the taxes are.

You are saying it is inherently broken, and I agree.

 

[JSt0rm]

yup but if the system is broken already then I blame those people who know its broken and put dumb shit in bills anyhow. In this case its the reps, could be the dems in another though.

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: rockyct
I think NOT having an uber-fortified embassy in Iraq would be a bad idea.

Why?

Whatever troops who are going to be in the compound probably aren't going to be patrolling the streets, so what does it matter?

It may matter because Iraqi's may not feel they are a sovereign country with a 104-acre US compound in the heart of their country. They may always wonder who really governs them.

Having any embassy in Iraq provides a huge target for anyone who wants to hurt the US, so it must be able to defend itself. I agree the embassy is excessively large and was designed when it was assumed our troops were going to be there for a while, but the need is still there for a large defense structure. It is in the Green Zone, but who knows what will happen when we pull out all of our troops. The compound was designed to be self-sufficient and able to protect itself. It has it's own power plant, sewage treatment, and any recreational activities the people working there need. Sure, it may piss off some Iraqis, but if in three years that's the main US presence in Iraq, I'd consider it better than the situation now.

 

[dawheat]

IMHO if this really is Obama's strategy, I have to say I disagree with it.

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Whoever wins the election will be faced with the terrible decisions made by the current administration - and the future president will need to work hard to restore the credibility and integrity of the US government.

Basically Obama is calling for an unconditional withdrawl - the troops required to defend an embassy would be ineffectual in any counter-insurgency or peace keeping role. So we wash our hands of Iraq, hope for the best, and ignore the consequences of what a full withdrawl would mean.

It's not Obama's fault we're in Iraq, but I don't see our credibility being rebuilt by leaving Iraq to fend on it's own. We fvcked their country and infrastructure up, the right thing to do and the way to rebuild credibility is to help them rebuild and restore their country - yes, however long it takes.

Our current strategy isn't getting it done - if we as voters weren't so superficial I'd really love to hear a well thought out strategy from each of the candidates.

 

[rockyct]

I'm pretty liberal, but I do tend to agree with you dawheat and I still voted for Obama. I think any plan to withdraw troops immediately would be shot down by the Republican minority, so I hope that Obama is using that plan as sort of a place to compromise from.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Iraq is a disaster. We should never have gone to war there. But we did and now we're screwed. There is now no easy or painless way out. Any real answer you chose would cost you an election so you mumble something and deal with the painful reality after you get elected. If Obama wins we will have for the first time in the war a thinking President who will take the best advise he can. Bush fucked us and we're not going to get unfucked very easily. Obama is the right answer to a horrible mess but it is still going to be a mess in my opinion. There will be huge downsides to anything we do and we will have to do something.

What shit are you smoking skippy. The problem with iraq was that bush took the advice and let cheney and herr rummy run the war.

What kinda ludicrous Quaalude's are you popping there pimpy?

What booze are you drinking, guvna'?

---

Just joining in 🙂

 

[GrGr]

Obama is speaking with a double tongue here. The US won't leave Iraq, come hell or high water, simple as. The US has married Iraq much like they married Israel. Not much Iraq can do about that except make that marriage hell on earth for the US. For example the Sunni's will soon realize they are being paid peanuts, they will demand a substantial payrise in US taxpayer money or a few well placed roadside bombs will start killing Americans again.