Is My PC Upgradeable?

[stevem326]

I'm currently just using my 2.5 year-old PC for web surfing and working with MS Office documents, but I'd like to get into gaming. Based on the specs of my current PC below, would you recommend upgrading some of the components or just buying/building a whole new rig? Is there any way I could just upgrade my video card and that's all? I don't need a top-of-the-line gaming experience, just something that would be average in terms of performance. If I could get away with just a video card upgrade, that would be great. My budget for a new PC is about $1,200 so I know I could get something pretty good for that. But if all I have to do is spend $150 or so on a new video card that would be my first choice.

Anyway, here are my current specs...and thanks in advance for any feedback you guys might have.

MSI 845-E Max Mobo Link Here
80GB WD Caviar SE HD (7200)
512 MB PC 2700 Value RAM
GEForce4 MX-440 Vid Card (64MB)
P4 2.4 Ghz CPU
On Board Sound

 

[Maxspeed996]

With that board having the AGP 4x slot , it doesn't leave you many options to upgrade the video card. I think you can still get something like what I was using which was the ATI X700 pro. It's a 256meg card 8x/4x compatible. And then take about $200 for a P4 3.2 processor and a ram upgrade to a gig. And you'll be suprised the new life that would breathe into your machine....

Or just build a whole new one.

 

[stevem326]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
With that board having the AGP 4x slot , it doesn't leave you many options to upgrade the video card. I think you can still get something like what I was using which was the ATI X700 pro. It's a 256meg card 8x/4x compatible. And then take about $200 for a P4 3.2 processor and a ram upgrade to a gig. And you'll be suprised the new life that would breathe into your machine....

Or just build a whole new one.

Hmm...so you would definitely recommend upgrading the CPU and RAM as well? I'm guessing this would cost about $350 total?

 

[Maxspeed996]

I wouldn't say I DEFINATELY recomend doing it like that , but that would open up a lot of games to you. I look at it like this , I've got a fairly decent machine , I play Doom3 , Quake 4 , Guild Wars , Half Life 2 , I'm going to check out Fear soon. And I played the crap out of all of these before when I was running a 2.4 gig p4 with 533 mhz fsb. and a Gig of Kingston value Ram.
I know I can't afford to keep up with the Joneses. So I've learned to mildly overclock my hardware. And I've had a lot of fun with it. If you are building a computer on a budget , and it sounds like you are ($1200) which is more than some people have at once to build a pc. You should figure out what you like to play. The Prices on the 478 socket intel P4 processors are coming down fast , you can get a 3.2 for under $200......(overclock potential) and a good RAM upgrade , or even newer Motherboard where you can use your current processor until you decide to upgrade that. Then you'll at least have an 8x AGP slot , or if you can find one , a 478 socket board , with AGP and PCI-express...(don't see them anymore) then you can have the best of both worlds. And not have to go blow your entire budget on a new machine that will be bested in the next few months anyway.

 

[stevem326]

Thanks a lot for the additional info, Max. Ideally I'd like to just upgrade instead of buying a whole new PC that (like you said) will be bested within 90-120 days, so I think I'll look into the upgrade route.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

 

[Nick5324]

This might interest you for a RAM upgrade.

Also, I thought the 6600GT was about the same price as the x700 Pro, but better performance.
I don't follow video cards close enough to be sure though.

 

[dandano]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
With that board having the AGP 4x slot , it doesn't leave you many options to upgrade the video card. I think you can still get something like what I was using which was the ATI X700 pro. It's a 256meg card 8x/4x compatible. And then take about $200 for a P4 3.2 processor and a ram upgrade to a gig. And you'll be suprised the new life that would breathe into your machine....

Or just build a whole new one.

Can that motherboard even use Prescott cpu? I think he may be limited to Northwood.

 

[zagood]

I was thinking the items below would be a good upgrade path for you for around $500, but thinking about it, your motherboard wouldn't take the processor (only supports up to 533mhz FSB). You'd have to replace your motherboard as well, and once you have to do that, might as well upgrade to an AMD/PCI-E setup. So take the products below with a grain of salt.

Might be worth it to get something like the 6600GT, ram, PSU, and a new heatsink to overclock your existing processor. I wouldn't recommend upgrading the processor with that motherboard.

I suggested PC3200 so you could conceivably use it in a future system, or overclock your processor with 1:1 FSB.

6800GS $209
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130002

P4 3.0E $189
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116175

1GB Corsair ValueSelect PC3200 $75 (sell or save your PC2700)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

Fortron 450w PSU $50 (unless you have a good PSU already)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

You'd also have to pick up a new heatsink for the CPU, check the sticky at the top of this forum category for reviews.

EDIT: x700 is a bad choice. Most AGP 8x video cards are backwards compatible to 4x.

-z

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: stevem326

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
With that board having the AGP 4x slot , it doesn't leave you many options to upgrade the video card. I think you can still get something like what I was using which was the ATI X700 pro. It's a 256meg card 8x/4x compatible. And then take about $200 for a P4 3.2 processor and a ram upgrade to a gig. And you'll be suprised the new life that would breathe into your machine....

Or just build a whole new one.

Hmm...so you would definitely recommend upgrading the CPU and RAM as well? I'm guessing this would cost about $350 total?

If you are going to upgrade the CPU then you might as well buy a New Athlon 3000 or 3200+ with ULi M1695 Motherboard with a Gigabyte of Dual Channel RAM for the same price. Of $348.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
With that board having the AGP 4x slot , it doesn't leave you many options to upgrade the video card. I think you can still get something like what I was using which was the ATI X700 pro. It's a 256meg card 8x/4x compatible. And then take about $200 for a P4 3.2 processor and a ram upgrade to a gig. And you'll be suprised the new life that would breathe into your machine....

Or just build a whole new one.

If he stuck with his old machine and followed your instructions he would still have Single Channel RAM, No PCI-express, NO AGP 8x, and he would find himself in the same shoes again next year when he wants a 64BIT Windows and more than 2GB of ram that his motherboard supports (I think).

[*] RAM $77

[*] CPU Option #1- AMD 3500+ $200

[*] CPU Option #2- AMD 3200+ $189 (E4 Stepping)

[*] Motherboard ULi M1695 with AGP and PCI-express $65 ($5 shipping)


The Total Cost comes to about $350.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: stevem326
...I don't need a top-of-the-line gaming experience, just something that would be average in terms of performance....

....If I could get away with just a video card upgrade, that would be great. But if all I have to do is spend $150 or so on a new video card that would be my first choice....

Yeah, IMHO you could easily get away with just a gfx card upgrade given your objective. Especially if you don't have a huge monitor.

But, I'd also suggest upgrading to 1gig of ram. While it won't help fps, it will help in loading times etc.

Fern

 

[Maxspeed996]

That was just if he decided to stick with his original Motherboard. The upgrade options to a newer setup is obvious. I believe in the second post I added that a motherboard upgrade was a Viable option. And he could continue to use his CPU until he wanted to upgrade to a newer Processor. The AMD 3500+ has a 2.2 gigahertz core speed (I know that doesn't mean much) but for the price , he could go to a p4 3.2mhz 800mhz FSB AND Hyperthreading. He'd still be able to MILDLY overclock , with a $60 Zalmann CPU cooler. That thing would FLY.
Don't get me wrong , the new Video Card Interface IS PCI-Express , but the bigger cards that are out , ARE being made into an AGP version. I've got the X1600 version myself , and it's bad to the bone. I can't keep up with the Jonses , and I'm not even going to pretend to try. Just tryin to help a brotha out.
And I'm not knockin AMD either , so don't think that. I personally prefer Intel.
Definately good options though.
And to Nick5234 the 6600GT is better,you are right, and the same price.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
That was just if he decided to stick with his original Motherboard. The upgrade options to a newer setup is obvious. I believe in the second post I added that a motherboard upgrade was a Viable option. And he could continue to use his CPU until he wanted to upgrade to a newer Processor. The AMD 3500+ has a 2.2 gigahertz core speed (I know that doesn't mean much) but for the price , he could go to a p4 3.2mhz 800mhz FSB AND Hyperthreading. He'd still be able to MILDLY overclock , with a $60 Zalmann CPU cooler. That thing would FLY.
Don't get me wrong , the new Video Card Interface IS PCI-Express , but the bigger cards that are out , ARE being made into an AGP version. I've got the X1600 version myself , and it's bad to the bone. I can't keep up with the Jonses , and I'm not even going to pretend to try. Just tryin to help a brotha out.
And I'm not knockin AMD either , so don't think that. I personally prefer Intel.
Definately good options though.
And to Nick5234 the 6600GT is better,you are right, and the same price.

It does not make sence to keep dumping money in to his current configuration. Here is why

1. • He is limited in how much RAM he can use, old 845 boards are often limited to 1.5 2GB max.
   • He has AGP 4x
   • He DOES NOT HAVE PCI-Express. So his video upgrade options are super limited
   • He does not have 64BIT OS support, no socket 478 board will have that.
   • He does not have SATA
   • He does not Have support for DDR400
   • He does not have dual channel ram
     
   You are advising him to spend $350 to upgrad from really old to just plain old. Why do that when for the same $350 you can upgrade from really old to something modern with more features that will have a longer useable life.
   
   Motherboards are soo cheap, I often wonder why people are so worried about holding on to them. Throw it out and spend $65 on an M1695 based system that will be good for 3 years or more. If you upgrade to a faster 478 then you will be kicking your self in 2007.

[*] Things you can buy for around $65

1. A Nice Mouse and Keyboard
2. A New Game ($59)
3. A New wireless joystick
4. A months worth of Cable TV and Broadband Internet
5. A months worth of Fiber Optic FIOS Internet
6. A night at a decent restaurant
7. A NEW MOTHERBOARD!
   

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
That was just if he decided to stick with his original Motherboard.

If you're talking to me, I'm just telling him his first choice is do-able and IMHO will meet his objectives.

Fern

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
That was just if he decided to stick with his original Motherboard.

If you're talking to me, I'm just telling him his first choice is do-able and IMHO will meet his objectives.

Fern

OK, but at what cost?

 

[stevem326]

Hey everyone....thanks a lot for all of the replies. I'm learning a lot just by what you guys are discussing, so I appreciate the time and effort everyone took to respond.

If I'm going to spend $300-$500 to upgrade, it probably makes more sense to just buy a whole new rig. I was thinking all I had to do was buy a $150 video card and that would do the trick, but I'd eventually want/need to upgrade my RAM/CPU/MoBo as well. So, that's just upgrade money I could be putting into a brand new system instead.

My budget is actually more towards $1,500 - $2,000 for a new system and I've seen tons of threads here at AT for rigs in that price range, so I'll find a few of them and get back to you guys with any questions that come up.

Thanks again for everyone's time and expertise in responding.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: stevem326
Hey everyone....thanks a lot for all of the replies. I'm learning a lot just by what you guys are discussing, so I appreciate the time and effort everyone took to respond.

If I'm going to spend $300-$500 to upgrade, it probably makes more sense to just buy a whole new rig. I was thinking all I had to do was buy a $150 video card and that would do the trick, but I'd eventually want/need to upgrade my RAM/CPU/MoBo as well. So, that's just upgrade money I could be putting into a brand new system instead.

My budget is actually more towards $1,500 - $2,000 for a new system and I've seen tons of threads here at AT for rigs in that price range, so I'll find a few of them and get back to you guys with any questions that come up.

Thanks again for everyone's time and expertise in responding.

You won't even need a new video card if you use the ULi M1695. That chipset/motherboard (ASrock) is one of the fastest performers on the market today and it lets you keep the AGP card you have so you can later upgrade to pci-express.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Why does everyone want to throw gobs of money at every problem (most especially somebody else's money).

The OP said this:

I don't need a top-of-the-line gaming experience, just something that would be average in terms of performance. If I could get away with just a video card upgrade, that would be great.

A 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB of Ram and a GeForce 6800GS would cost $200 and be exactly what he wants from the quote above... "a gaming system with average performance".

He could also up the memory to 1GB of memory for a little more.

As for the swearing up and down about how-horrible a 4x AGP system, that bandwith hasn't been filled yet either.

It just so happens, my wife's computer is a 2.4GHz, 512MB, AGP 4x 6600GT equipped system, and she can play all the latest games with "average performance"... including Sims 2, CoD 2, NFS:MW, UT 2004 and other games just fine. And that's with a 6600GT.

I swear, people are so free to spend other people's money on this forum and talk garbage about things they don't even know like "AGP 4x will be a bottle-neck"... that's total BS, talk about things you know, not things you are guessing about.

9/10ths of the people on this forum are 7800GTX PCIe SLI running techno-geeks... but the original poster would like to see if he could get away with just a video card and get decent performance from today's games.

As unpopular as it may be with the techno-geeks on this forum who would like to spend his money like water...

YES, STEVEN326, YOU CAN JUST BUY A VIDEO CARD AND GET DECENT PERFORMANCE IN TODAY'S GAMES WITH YOUR CURRENT SETUP.

I would recomend at least a 6600GT (which my wife is running on a near-identical setup), and probably a 6800GS would be a better idea. You might also consider jumping up the memory, but try the video card first and see if that pleases you. My wife's system which is near identical to yours gets fine performance in a lot of games with a 6600GT, and a 6800GS would be just fine... and no-matter which card you get, the AGP 4x is not going to slow you down. Don't listen to the tech-guessers on that. They just need to justify their PCIe purchases!

Now if you WANT to spend $1200 upgrading your system, then by all means, listen to their advice, and buy a brand-new PCIe system with what they recomend. But your original post asked if you could get decent performance from just a video card purchase... the answer, is a FIRM YES.

 

[Maxspeed996]

I guess I am being misunderstood in what I'm saying. He's just saying that if he could get away with a video card upgrade , that's what he'd do. What he said was.
But if all I have to do is spend $150 or so on a new video card that would be my first choice.
I definately see your point. I'm trying to find the link to the Motherboard I've got in mind which features the 478 socket , AGP8X , AND PCI-Express. Support for 800mhz fsb processors , and dual channel ram. That will get him for more than a year!!
The current system he has is at least 2.5 years old , AND he says he wants something that would be average in terms of performance. He could still go my way with this.

Motherboard - $90 - AsusP4P800SE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131484

Processor - $190 (that he doesn't have to upgrade until later on, prices are dropping every week)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116171

Memory - $90 (latency of 2 even)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134028

Video Card - $150 Saphire Radeon x1600 AGP8x 512 GDDR2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102679

With the board , ram , and video card. He can still keep his 80 gig harddrive. and use his same processor until later on. And he's at $350. And he can upgrade to a 3.0 or 3.2 P4 when he wants for under $200. And then mildly overclock.
I seriously doubt that someone who wants "mild performance" to game with, is going to scoff at a P4 3.0 overclocked to 3.6. A gig of low latency Ram , and a 512 meg video card on the X1600 base!! That's better than most peoples computers that I even know of. And I know quite a few that like to game on the PC. I bet that will be a system that'll last him for the next few years without even thinking about it.....all the while watching the latest stuff that is out now come down in price , and see the next generation of technology come out.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze
Why does everyone want to throw gobs of money at every problem (most especially somebody else's money).

The OP said this:

I don't need a top-of-the-line gaming experience, just something that would be average in terms of performance. If I could get away with just a video card upgrade, that would be great.

A 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB of Ram and a GeForce 6800GS would cost $200 and be exactly what he wants from the quote above... "a gaming system with average performance".

He could also up the memory to 1GB of memory for a little more.

As for the swearing up and down about how-horrible a 4x AGP system, that bandwith hasn't been filled yet either.

It just so happens, my wife's computer is a 2.4GHz, 512MB, AGP 4x 6600GT equipped system, and she can play all the latest games with "average performance"... including Sims 2, CoD 2, NFS:MW, UT 2004 and other games just fine. And that's with a 6600GT.

I swear, people are so free to spend other people's money on this forum and talk garbage about things they don't even know like "AGP 4x will be a bottle-neck"... that's total BS, talk about things you know, not things you are guessing about.

9/10ths of the people on this forum are 7800GTX PCIe SLI running techno-geeks... but the original poster would like to see if he could get away with just a video card and get decent performance from today's games.

As unpopular as it may be with the techno-geeks on this forum who would like to spend his money like water...

YES, STEVEN326, YOU CAN JUST BUY A VIDEO CARD AND GET DECENT PERFORMANCE IN TODAY'S GAMES WITH YOUR CURRENT SETUP.

I would recomend at least a 6600GT (which my wife is running on a near-identical setup), and probably a 6800GS would be a better idea. You might also consider jumping up the memory, but try the video card first and see if that pleases you. My wife's system which is near identical to yours gets fine performance in a lot of games with a 6600GT, and a 6800GS would be just fine... and no-matter which card you get, the AGP 4x is not going to slow you down. Don't listen to the tech-guessers on that. They just need to justify their PCIe purchases!

Now if you WANT to spend $1200 upgrading your system, then by all means, listen to their advice, and buy a brand-new PCIe system with what they recomend. But your original post asked if you could get decent performance from just a video card purchase... the answer, is a FIRM YES.

I was merely challanging the guy in the first post who said a 3.0GHz intel and a GB of ram for $350 would be a smart upgrade. I know of better things to spend that on that will get you much more. I know other peoples money is just as important as my own. Any pimple faced teen working at Mc D can afford all of the upgrades I am suggesting.

You are right about 4x being plenty. The only reason for PCI-e is that all of the newest cards are using that interface.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Thank you WolfShanze. Stevem326 you have a lot of options , just do a bit of lookin around. I hate to see a budget like $1200 for what you are looking at. For a few hundred , you would be suprised what you can do.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
I guess I am being misunderstood in what I'm saying. He's just saying that if he could get away with a video card upgrade , that's what he'd do. What he said was.
But if all I have to do is spend $150 or so on a new video card that would be my first choice.
I definately see your point. I'm trying to find the link to the Motherboard I've got in mind which features the 478 socket , AGP8X , AND PCI-Express. Support for 800mhz fsb processors , and dual channel ram. That will get him for more than a year!!
The current system he has is at least 2.5 years old , AND he says he wants something that would be average in terms of performance. He could still go my way with this.

Motherboard - $90 - AsusP4P800SE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131484

Processor - $190 (that he doesn't have to upgrade until later on, prices are dropping every week)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116171

Memory - $90 (latency of 2 even)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134028

Video Card - $150 Saphire Radeon x1600 AGP8x 512 GDDR2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102679

With the board , ram , and video card. He can still keep his 80 gig harddrive. and use his same processor until later on. And he's at $350. And he can upgrade to a 3.0 or 3.2 P4 when he wants for under $200. And then mildly overclock.
I seriously doubt that someone who wants "mild performance" to game with, is going to scoff at a P4 3.0 overclocked to 3.6. A gig of low latency Ram , and a 512 meg video card on the X1600 base!! That's better than most peoples computers that I even know of. And I know quite a few that like to game on the PC. I bet that will be a system that'll last him for the next few years without even thinking about it.....all the while watching the latest stuff that is out now come down in price , and see the next generation of technology come out.

Why recomend an obsolete socket 478 sysetem? For less cash you can get more computer with an AMD socket 939! For $190 that you are recomending he can get an Athlon 3500+ that will run circles around a P4 3.0GHz.

One GB of Corsair costs $77 why get anything more expensive when there is little differance in performance?

 

[Maxspeed996]

I was just making examples. I wasn't telling him what to get. That ultimately is up to him. And I agree ,I just flipped that link real quick to make a point. There are even cheaper alternatives out there for what you want.

 

[Wolfshanze]

It's simple... it's easy, it's inexpensive, and he'll get exactly what he asked for in the original post...

Buy a 6600GT or preferably a 6800GS... he'll be able to play pretty much everything with average or better settings. No new system, no crazy setups, no problems. Simple, easy, cheap and does what the OP asked, and for fairly cheap... that's all I'm saying... my suggestion matches the original question.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Yep.