Is my old PSU gonna be enough for an upgrade?

[dclive]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: dclive
Numbers of what, exactly?

Look at the micro part of this - take Best Buy. They sell lots of GPUs, but no (AFAIK) PSUs. Same with Circuit City.

That's your proof.

Totally wrong, like everything else you've written in this thread.

They do, but you suggest everything else I wrote in the thread is wrong, and several people have agreed that much of what I've written is correct --- and there's tbe obvious point that BB sells vastly more GPUs than PSUs, so obviously people don't need to upgrade as some might suggest.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Gillbot
To me this is like arguing about Pep Boys' tires on a $100,000 supercar. It's not THAT much more to upgrade the PSU to be 100% safe. I've seen the "i've used my old PSU and it took out xxx on my new rig" posts way too many times for me not to recommend FOR an upgrade to be safe.

It's like arguing to add $50 to a device that costs $100 (see the motherboard+RAM upgrade scenario I posted) and suggesting the $50 device is required every time.

Your scenario (above) has nothing to do with anything, as far as I can tell. To be similar, those Pep Boy tires would need to cost $50,000 or so.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
I didn't discount that. You didn't read my post. I had said that MOST PEOPLE with a Dell, HP.. even an eMachine, for goodness sake, has a better PSU than what these house brand CompUSA, BestBuy, etc. units are.

OK.

Did this work out for the OP, or did he buy a new PSU?

 

[Jessica69]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: dclive
Numbers of what, exactly?

Look at the micro part of this - take Best Buy. They sell lots of GPUs, but no (AFAIK) PSUs. Same with Circuit City.

That's your proof.

Totally wrong, like everything else you've written in this thread.

They do, but you suggest everything else I wrote in the thread is wrong, and several people have agreed that much of what I've written is correct --- and there's tbe obvious point that BB sells vastly more GPUs than PSUs, so obviously people don't need to upgrade as some might suggest.

And you take the "fact" that BB and CC don't stock as many power supplies as video cards as a supporting "fact" for your thesis?

That is so far out in left field, how does one respond to that?

But, video cards are one of the "sexy" components of a computer.....reviews abound everywhere about which is fastest, and which gives the biggest bragging rights.

Contrast that to the most neglected component in a computer, for the vast majority of average users out there, the power supply, and you don't have to wonder why BB and CC don't stock huge amounts of power supplies in their stores. Power supplies are not sexy like video cards and unless they fail, are rarely sought out for upgrade or replacement by the typical average user out there....that is, until some proper education takes place.

But you can turn this around and someone could point out that online places like Newegg, ZZF, and a whole host of other places stock huge numbers of power supplies.....

But you've got to be right.....Newegg only stocks, as of this minute, 527 different power supplies while they have 621 different video card choices. So, yeah, there are so many more video card choices vs. power supplies out there....no one ever needs to upgrade their power supplies.....and no one ever wants to, either.....taking into account the numbers at Newegg, for instance.

And as for the original question as to if the OP should upgrade....sure, he probably can get his computer to run with his original power supply......and hope it doesn't explode days, weeks, months down the line from being run at its limit the whole time since his upgrade.

But you don't care about that, do you? You just want to be completely contrary and right.... never mind his power supply is no better than the Rocketfish power supplies that are sold at BB.......and of the same construction. I did like the HardwareSecrets test of a 400W Rocketfish/Huntkey power supply that blew up when asked to provide over 250W of output.

And I think this will happen to this poor fellow, too. He's got a POS CompUSA power supply, made by Huntkey (Huntkey was an OEM for CompUSA's power supplies just like it is for BB's Rocketfish junk), so the inevitable conclusion will be utter failure from an overtaxed and underpowered power supply that will "just" work but not have a single shred of buffer capacity in it.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: dclive
I see this as essentially a step-up of an OEM PSU. As we've already proven, an OEM PSU (Dell, Acer are 2 examples) at 300W and 350W are fully capable of running an 8800GTS/320 and Quad-core CPU

The Bestec and Delta PSUs in Dells (not familiar with Acer desktops) can put out 100% of their wattage rating at normal operating temperatures. Not only that, but even a 300W Bestec in a Dell (I had one) can put out more +12v power than the 400W CompUSA unit, based on the label information.

Originally posted by: Gillbot
It was a generic 430 watter and guess what, the system booted right up fine and ran for a few days before the PSU went POP! It took out a few other components with it

Word of experience.

Originally posted by: dclive
take Best Buy. They sell lots of GPUs, but no (AFAIK) PSUs. Same with Circuit City.

You don't know that they sell PSUs? What else don't you know? I've purchased an Antec TruePower II PSU from a Circuit City B&M 2½ years ago.

Best Buy lists 10 PSUs

Circuit City lists 52 PSUs

Originally posted by: dclive
I've never had a PSU failure, so for me the risk so far is 0%, but I'd like to know what you have seen.

So you never had a PSU failure and thus you're confident that nobody else will? What about Gillbot's experience?

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
First, I'll have you know that the CompUSA PSU's are made by Leadman.

OMG! ChaoticMonk, run, run far away from that PSU!

Originally posted by: dclive
They do, but you suggest everything else I wrote in the thread is wrong, and several people have agreed that much of what I've written is correct

I don't see many people agreeing with you, but I will. What I agree is that the OP's system should be able to run on a 400W power supply... if it can supply at least 75% of the rated power on +12v at 50ºC continuously. There, are ya happy? Oh, BTW, that CompUSA unit doesn't meet those requirements.

What you are not understanding is that the particular CompUSA unit that the OP has IS NOT a 400W power supply and CAN NOT supply what it claims continuously or at normal operating temperatures, plus IS UNABLE TO supply enough +12v power. Basically, take a 200W power supply, slap a "CompUSA 400W" sticker on it and that's what the OP has.

Originally posted by: dclive
Did this work out for the OP, or did he buy a new PSU?

He hasn't posted, so the system must have died.

 

[Zap]

I'm a double posting ninja!

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
You actually believe that a CompUSA PSU is a "step up" from a Dell, HP, etc. PSU? Not even close. I would totally take a 300W Dell PSU over a 400W CompUSA PSU.

Originally posted by: ChaoticMonk
CompUSA 400w PSU.
...
Heres is what it says on the PSU box:
+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5Vsb
..20A...30A..15A..0.5A..0.5A..2A

300W Bestec in Dell & HP systems

+12V 19A

So, why does a "400W" PSU only put out 180W of +12v power while a measly "300W" PSU put out 228W?

That's the reason why these Dell/HP systems can handle video card upgrades. NOT because they're 300W or whatever, but because they have enough watts on +12v. (oh yeah, and they don't lie about power output or use creative math in doing up numbers)

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: dclive
Again, the strongest we can say is there "might" be a problem, and you're willing to discount the fact that the PSU has been just fine until now. So it isn't that you don't think the PSU can handle the wattage/stress of running the components, you just think the PSU brand is bad, so it should always be replaced. Furthermore, if it isn't replaced, you think the failure rate of the PSU might be somewhere from 10 to 20 percent over a time period of a year or two.

Does that about sum it up?

Just to join in on the hit parade

Lets say I want to go bungee jumping with a frayed line. I make 1 jump and it doesn't break...so it is working fine up until now. My friends tell me I better not do it again because it "might break"...but if I buy another bungee cord it is gonna cost me $250...should I keep on juming with my badly frayed bungee cord?

 

[dclive]

The strongest message anyone so far has sent is that there might be a problem with a bad PSU - 5% industry average vs. 10% for this brand - and that justifies spending $50-$100.

If that kind of an average is worth it to you, go for it. Personally, I don't see that kind of difference (and I question those numbers, too) as significant enough to spend $50-$100, particularly when we all agree they're all going to fail eventually.

Bungee jumping isn't a computer. To even try to put the two together is comical. Next we'll say you see no difference between mountain climbing gear and a jacket used to go outside when the weather is under 50 degrees - it's just a stupid comparison.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Jessica69
You just want to be completely contrary and right.... never mind his power supply is no better than the Rocketfish power supplies that are sold at BB.......and of the same construction. I did like the HardwareSecrets test of a 400W Rocketfish/Huntkey power supply that blew up when asked to provide over 250W of output.

Actually, the Rocketfish is better than the CompUSA PSU by a long, long, long shot.

And the unit HardwareSecrets blew up wasn't a Rocketfish. It was a Dynex. Albiet the same OEM and both sold through Best Buy, Rocketfish only comes as a "700W" (actually a 550W continuous) with APFC. The Dynex don't have PFC, but are only rated 100W above their actual capability. Also, it wasn't a 400W, it was a 450W and it didn't blow up at 250W, it blew up at 360W.. but still... it failed to do what the label claims it can do AND it's STILL a better unit that the CompUSA unit.

 

[dclive]

But JG - none of that answers the original question. The question was (and still is) that the OP went from another system (one that almost certainly used MORE power than a modern C2D system would) to the system he posted about, and he's asking if he needs another PSU. And so far, aside from a belief that the unit that's been reliable for him so far would suddenly become unreliable, I have yet to see a reason for why he should upgrade (since if he's going to less power required, the power requirements everyone's talking about wouldn't be an issue...)

 

[jonnyGURU]

It hasn't been unanswered. YOU have been unanswered, but that's because you've been trolling.

The OP's PSU isn't going to suddenly explode because of this "migration". That implication was NEVER made. The PSU was NEVER a good unit to begin with. If it's going to die, it's not going to die because of this migration, it's going to die because it SUCKS. He had enough sense to come to the forums and ask, so now we're doing him the favor of telling him to replace it before something bad happens. If he had come in after he bought it originally, before putting it in the first build, we would have told him the same thing: It sucks. It can die today, die in a year.. may never die at all. But why take the chance? If you're cautious enough to ask, there's good reason. To use your own analogy, it's like insurance. No, not everyone NEEDS insurance, but people buy it anyways.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
It hasn't been unanswered. YOU have been unanswered, but that's because you've been trolling.

I'm not trolling; I'm disagreeing. I simply disagree with a "need" to replace something that, per your own numbers, is only 5% more likely (in one case) to fail compared to other brands of PSUs, and for which there isn't a power issue (which others in this thread clearly believed there was.)

As to your "it's going to die" - I think that's fearmongering. Everything is going to die sometime; we manage the risk by having workarounds or we manage the risk by being able to buy replacement parts. I don't think having a 5% additional 'failure' rate (which I still don't completely buy, but it's a start) means everyone should run out and get another PSU - particularly if this one has a history of working well.

When I read your text above, it sounds like you're saying "It might die, so replace it". Wow. My car might die - and that's a lot more critical than a PC PSU since it involves my getting to work! - should I replace it the second it is out of warranty? Or perhaps I should only buy a Toyota Camry 4 cylinder, because that's the most reliable car (for the sake of the example let's assume that's right), and avoid anything else, because those fail more frequently?

Life is about managing risk and the money we save to have marginally more risk. If everyone believed as you do, everyone would run $300 PSU units and drive Toyota Camrys. Real life isn't like that.

 

[MarcVenice]

You are missing so many points they make. You keep forgetting that CRAPPY psu's that have a 400w label on them will often blow up when asked to put out 250w instead of the 400w they claim to be able to put out. Or well, claim, they claim to be able to put out 400w for a short moment, it's a peak rating, and not a 50c continous load rating. 'Decent' or good PSU's, like in OEM's are rated at 300-350w continous, HUGE difference. Look at zap's post, he's reiterating what I've said before, that 'crappy compusa' unit has a whopping 15a on the 12v rail, and it claims to be a 400w unit, but a 'decent' OEM psu has 19a on the 12v rails and a claimed output of 300 watt.

So yes you are trolling, you intentionally ignore info that doesn't suit your agenda. Look at this review for example: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modul...views&op=Story&reid=71 . You are also lacking reading comprehension, jonny stated that QAULITY psu's have a RMA rate of 2%. Half of the rma's aren't due to bad psu's but for other reason, so that's 1 out of 100 units. Crappy psu's, like the compusa's had a 10% rma rate due to BAD psu's. That's just the ones Jonny KNEW of though, because those got returned within their 1 year warranty, where as corsair, seasonic, antec and others offer 3/5 year warranty !!! Those corsair units etc usually don't take out hardware either, they just fail all by themself without damaging expensive videocards, so yes they fail, but with far less consequences then a crappy compusa unit.

Reread that twice, because it's been said before, I just summarized it for you ...

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well if the op wants to gamble with his new hardware then I say let him. If anybody is willing to risk their high dollar hardware over a cheap ps please be kind to all of us and keep a video camera on it so when the fireworks start we can have a new youtube video to watch.

Really though why spend lots of money on hardware and then cheap out on the ps which supplies the whole thing? It's kind of like going in for open heart surgery and asking for the cheapest valves they can install.

I purposely run overkill on all of my pc's which gives me margin and that is how I will continue to do it. I've spent a ton of money on my pc hardware and I'm not willing to risk it to a cheap ps.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
You are missing so many points they make. You keep forgetting that CRAPPY psu's that have a 400w label on them will often blow up when asked to put out 250w instead of the 400w they claim to be able to put out. Or well, claim, they claim to be able to put out 400w for a short moment, it's a peak rating, and not a 50c continous load rating. 'Decent' or good PSU's, like in OEM's are rated at 300-350w continous, HUGE difference. Look at zap's post, he's reiterating what I've said before, that 'crappy compusa' unit has a whopping 15a on the 12v rail, and it claims to be a 400w unit, but a 'decent' OEM psu has 19a on the 12v rails and a claimed output of 300 watt.

Yes, but you appear to have missed my point: it's quite likely (in fact, most likely) that the OP's prior system used more power than this system or similar amounts of power to this system, so concerns about power don't appear to be relevant.

So yes you are trolling, you intentionally ignore info that doesn't suit your agenda.

How sad - when people disagree they accuse others of trolling. As I've already said, if this system doesn't use as much power or substantially different amounts of power to his old system, power arguments do not serve a purpose.

Look at this review for example: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modul...views&op=Story&reid=71 .

Is the OP's system there? Not the brand name - the actual PSU - is it there? You know VW makes Seat, VM, and Audi, right?

You are also lacking reading comprehension, jonny stated that QAULITY psu's have a RMA rate of 2%. Half of the rma's aren't due to bad psu's but for other reason, so that's 1 out of 100 units. Crappy psu's, like the compusa's had a 10% rma rate due to BAD psu's. That's just the ones Jonny KNEW of though, because those got returned within their 1 year warranty, where as corsair, seasonic, antec and others offer 3/5 year warranty !!! Those corsair units etc usually don't take out hardware either, they just fail all by themself without damaging expensive videocards, so yes they fail, but with far less consequences then a crappy compusa unit.

Reread that twice, because it's been said before, I just summarized it for you ...

We agree the failure rates may be different. What we don't agree on it what that means to the OP and to his machine.

Here's what we have so far - the OP has a system now that will likely use about the same or less power compared to his old system (give or take; we'd have to know a lot more, but it's correct to say that the C2D systems use less power generally). We know the PSU has been good up until this point. So, we can't say we need more power, and we can't say that particular PSU has been unreliable.

So it's tough to advocate replacing it.

Sorry; I'm cheap, and I don't like spending money unless I must. In this case, I don't think there's a case to do so yet.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
Well if the op wants to gamble with his new hardware then I say let him. If anybody is willing to risk their high dollar hardware over a cheap ps please be kind to all of us and keep a video camera on it so when the fireworks start we can have a new youtube video to watch.

Given the scenario posted so far, what are the chances of that happening?

Really though why spend lots of money on hardware and then cheap out on the ps which supplies the whole thing? It's kind of like going in for open heart surgery and asking for the cheapest valves they can install.

Only if you think a computer PSU is as important as a heart valve. I'll let that up to other readers to determine; I think it's ludicrous.

I purposely run overkill on all of my pc's which gives me margin and that is how I will continue to do it. I've spent a ton of money on my pc hardware and I'm not willing to risk it to a cheap ps.

And you have a dual SLI system monster. This is a more basic system with different parameters. Also remember that not everyone wants to throw money at their computer - many people just want something functional that works.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
So yes you are trolling, you intentionally ignore info that doesn't suit your agenda.

How sad - when people disagree they accuse others of trolling. As I've already said, if this system doesn't use as much power or substantially different amounts of power to his old system, power arguments do not serve a purpose.

No. It's fine to disagree. You keep saying that we're not addressing points that you're making when the fact of the matter is, we are. So maybe you're not trolling, but you're certainly lacking reading comprehension.

For example.....

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

Look at this review for example: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modul...views&op=Story&reid=71 .

Is the OP's system there? Not the brand name - the actual PSU - is it there? You know VW makes Seat, VM, and Audi, right?

I already pointed this review out earlier on in this thread and stated that two of the units were the same OEM as the CompUSA unit. I also said the name of the OEM: Leadman. I was then quoted by Zap stating that the OEM is Leadman, to which he replied "Run, run far away!"

If you can't even look at the review and see where Wolf states the two units that are Leadman, then you really shouldn't be trying to argue anything with anyone.

Really, you should read and not skim if you don't want to be considered a troll.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
No. It's fine to disagree. You keep saying that we're not addressing points that you're making when the fact of the matter is, we are. So maybe you're not trolling, but you're certainly lacking reading comprehension.

For example.....

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

Look at this review for example: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modul...views&op=Story&reid=71 .

Is the OP's system there? Not the brand name - the actual PSU - is it there? You know VW makes Seat, VM, and Audi, right?

I already pointed this review out earlier on in this thread and stated that two of the units were the same OEM as the CompUSA unit. I also said the name of the OEM: Leadman. I was then quoted by Zap stating that the OEM is Leadman, to which he replied "Run, run far away!"

If you can't even look at the review and see where Wolf states the two units that are Leadman, then you really shouldn't be trying to argue anything with anyone.

Really, you should read and not skim if you don't want to be considered a troll.

My point completely went over your head.

I'm not interested in the BRAND. I'm interested in the UNIT. That's why I posted the Seat, VW, Audi bit, and that's why I posted asking if a review of the UNIT was done; I don't care about the brand - brand and manufacturer differences exist (witness Seat, VM, Audi). Show me a review of the UNIT.

That was the point. Please don't accuse me of a lack of comprehension, particularly given this post.

There's also a secondary point - that if we aren't stressing the power of this unit (as your bench test did) then there's little point in wondering how much power they'll put out.

 

[MarcVenice]

Given jonnyguru's experience I think, since you assume so much allready, it's also save to assume that the compusa PSU is of similar or even worse qaulity then the PSU's in that review. If you looked at the review, you know what a BAD psu is like, rated at peak wattage, has the ability to go up in flames, and is very likely to do so when pushed to half or 2/3th's of it's claimed output capacity.

Besides, why do you think his previous CPU consumes more power then a q6600 ? I think the q6600's TDP is actually pretty high. On a last note, we've been COMPLETELY ignoring things as ripple, which I bet is going to be worse as the PSU degrades and when it gets pushed close to it's maximum on the 12v rail, which is 180w, knowing the q6600 can draw 100w, it's not so hard to believe the ram, videocard, hdd's and mobo itself can draw at least another 50w. If the PSU doesn't blow up and bursts into flames, it might actually kill or severely degrade other components because of out of spec ripple.

On this forum you're allowed to have your own opinion, but in the end I'd feel uncomfortable saying something that is potentially hazardous and could cause a person grief. Telling him to spend 55$ ONCE, for a PSU with a 5 year warranty, that is also 80% efficient compared to a unit that's probably 70% efficient and won't kill his rig even if it were to die on him, feels much better to me then telling him to stick with his crappy PSU.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Given jonnyguru's experience I think, since you assume so much allready, it's also save to assume that the compusa PSU is of similar or even worse qaulity then the PSU's in that review. If you looked at the review, you know what a BAD psu is like, rated at peak wattage, has the ability to go up in flames, and is very likely to do so when pushed to half or 2/3th's of it's claimed output capacity.

Sorry. If it were that bad, the FTC would've done a recall and it would be headline news in the USA. When 5 Chinese goods catch fire or have bad chemicals in them, it's major news, so I'm going to suggest you're embellishing to make a point. Also my points re: the fact that mountains of power clearly isn't needed compared to his old system (and it's worked so far) remains.

Yes, it *could* go into flames - if JG puts it on his testbed. But the OP isn't doing that.

Besides, why do you think his previous CPU consumes more power then a q6600 ? I think the q6600's TDP is actually pretty high. On a last note, we've been COMPLETELY ignoring things as ripple, which I bet is going to be worse as the PSU degrades and when it gets pushed close to it's maximum on the 12v rail, which is 180w, knowing the q6600 can draw 100w, it's not so hard to believe the ram, videocard, hdd's and mobo itself can draw at least another 50w. If the PSU doesn't blow up and bursts into flames, it might actually kill or severely degrade other components because of out of spec ripple.

Anything COULD happen. What's the likelihood of something happening with the OP's system? Can you quantify anything like that? 1% over a year's time?

On this forum you're allowed to have your own opinion, but in the end I'd feel uncomfortable saying something that is potentially hazardous and could cause a person grief. Telling him to spend 55$ ONCE, for a PSU with a 5 year warranty, that is also 80% efficient compared to a unit that's probably 70% efficient and won't kill his rig even if it were to die on him, feels much better to me then telling him to stick with his crappy PSU.

80% vs. 70% is a wonderful marketing tactic - almost as good as the hybrid cars on the market (hint: you don't save money unless you drive >30,000 miles/year due to the very high initial cost of the car and increased risk of battery maintenance.) I don't suggest getting excited about it because the incremental cost is so tiny. It doesn't justify a new unit.

In any case, I think we're arguing about a shockingly tiny amount of risk for a very low need. If someone *wants* to upgrade the PSU for that happy feeling, more power to them, but to do so just because something bad _might_ happen (and so far that's still the strongest anyone has been able to say) is a bit silly.

 

[MarcVenice]

I find it insulting that you think I fall for that 'marketing' ploy. I NEVER said 70 vs 80% is a reason good enough to buy a new unit. It's a plus though, besides all the other pro's that comes with buying a new PSU.

You're argument of anything could happen is also gettting very old very fast. Yes anything could happen. We could be struck by lightning or hell, a meteor could appear out of nowhere and blow earth out of the universe, what's your point? We should just take big risks, because everything could happen ? Most of your statements have been proven to be either false, or are very subjective, based on your own experience. The only thing we disagree about is wether the risk is worth the money of a new PSU, that will most likely cost anywhere around 50$.

That's not even taking into account the fact he might need a new PSU anyways if he upgrades his GPU, because then he might as well get a new PSU right now. 'We' think not spending 50$ on a decent PSU is not worth the risk, you do. Case closed I'd say. But for you, to make unfounded assumptions based on your own experiences and to tell people to do something possibly hazardous and grief causing is something I would like to STRONGLY discourage. I really don't want to haunt every thread you post in and disagree with you, link to this thread, so people can make up their own mind, because you 'THINK', against the wake up a highly regarded expert, that they will be something subjective as 'fine'.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I find it insulting that you think I fall for that 'marketing' ploy. I NEVER said 70 vs 80% is a reason good enough to buy a new unit. It's a plus though, besides all the other pro's that comes with buying a new PSU.

You raised the topic. I just responded.

You're argument of anything could happen is also gettting very old very fast. Yes anything could happen. We could be struck by lightning or hell, a meteor could appear out of nowhere and blow earth out of the universe, what's your point? We should just take big risks, because everything could happen ? Most of your statements have been proven to be either false, or are very subjective, based on your own experience. The only thing we disagree about is wether the risk is worth the money of a new PSU, that will most likely cost anywhere around 50$.

The OP is discussing a motherboard and CPU upgrade. Assuming Fry's latest deal, that's $229, plus some RAM ($21 for 2GB specials, perhaps), total of call it $250. Add a PSU to replace a PSU that's been working just fine, and we're increasing cost by 20% for a very subjective risk. For some people, that's a lot of money.

That's not even taking into account the fact he might need a new PSU anyways if he upgrades his GPU, because then he might as well get a new PSU right now. 'We' think not spending 50$ on a decent PSU is not worth the risk, you do. Case closed I'd say. But for you, to make unfounded assumptions based on your own experiences and to tell people to do something possibly hazardous and grief causing is something I would like to STRONGLY discourage. I really don't want to haunt every thread you post in and disagree with you, link to this thread, so people can make up their own mind, because you 'THINK', against the wake up a highly regarded expert, that they will be something subjective as 'fine'.

So if he upgrades his GPU, *then* get a new PSU (*IF* he needs it then). Don't go into what-ifs and maybes. (Why should he upgrade his PSU now, if he only _might_ need it in the future?)

I don't spend if I don't need to.

Who is the highly regarded expert? JG, I take it?

 

[MarcVenice]

Who else would it be ?

The what-ifs are perfectly appropriate, you use them all the time. Your whole argument is based on it. What if it doesn't blow up ? Then you've wasted 50$ you'd say, but I disagree. 50$ means less risk, way less risk, 50$ isn't such a big price to pay for not having to worry about the PSU taking out components that could cost 5 times as much as the PSU itself. For a PSU that has a 5 year warranty, a PSU that will power this and his next's rig, a PSU that WILL save him some money because it's more efficient, not going to do the math but I've seen people do it, and iirc it could easily be 20-30$ over the course of a few years NORMAL computer usage. He could also say he helped stop global warming, okay, that's just lame ...

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Who else would it be ?

The product marketing manager for BFG, with a purpose of evangelizing and selling (marketing) power supplies, largely to the enthusiast community.

The what-ifs are perfectly appropriate, you use them all the time. Your whole argument is based on it. What if it doesn't blow up ? Then you've wasted 50$ you'd say, but I disagree. 50$ means less risk, way less risk, 50$ isn't such a big price to pay for not having to worry about the PSU taking out components that could cost 5 times as much as the PSU itself. For a PSU that has a 5 year warranty, a PSU that will power this and his next's rig, a PSU that WILL save him some money because it's more efficient, not going to do the math but I've seen people do it, and iirc it could easily be 20-30$ over the course of a few years NORMAL computer usage. He could also say he helped stop global warming, okay, that's just lame ...

It's not "way less risk" - it's about 5%, give or take, compared to some other brands mentioned, using some math. And it's not "blow up" - it's "fail". And all that's an estimate from one person, who used to work in an RMA department for a retailer/wholesaler and is now responsible for marketing them to the enthusiast community. A 10% return/fail rate seems very, very high to me. 20% is numbingly high (as in, why wasn't everyone fired-type high.)

The scenario I see is $50 spent and no benefit, and you 'lose' the PSU when you sell the computer.

The scenario I think you see is $50 spent, and you get the happy feeling, plus you get to keep the PSU and use it in your next rig.

That's a significant difference. If you do plan to keep the PSU for years, it's not as bad of a deal to spend money on it. The only downside is that PSUs change, so you couldn't keep it for *that* long, but I'd grant 3-4 years or so is probably practical. That said, there are people who _never_ upgrade PSUs and are no worse off (I'm a case in point, aside from a wasted $80 or whatever from the evga issue), so it's still a risk-v-reward scenario there too.

I still don't see a compelling reason to "upgrade" if what you have works and has proven to be reliable (per the OP, no problems noted) and if power requirements aren't a significant concern (and it's a pretty basic card, plus the C2D architecture uses considerably less power than the P4 architecture before it).

You do; I'm happy with that.

 

[MarcVenice]

He has been saying the same thing before he started working for BFG. If you want to tell him his numbers are wrong, you go get the real numbers, but right now, his numbers are far more accurate and credible then your 'seemingly' high return-fail rate. Besides, why would he recommend a antec ea 380-430w, you call that a enthusiast PSU? Come on man, give me a break.