Is Liberalism Killing the Manly Man?

[hal2kilo]

Not manly, dog, not manly at all. Liberals, LOL!

I found the perfect example of a manly liberal you had in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19d_bKbTtM&feature=related

 

[sMiLeYz]

Feminists. Liberals. Why don't we blame the homosexuals too for being... too gay.

 

[UberNeuman]

I found the perfect example of a manly liberal you had in mind.

Hicks would be laughing his ass off over PJabber's posts....

\then lighting up a cig and talking about Jabs' desperate need for some sort of attention...

 

[Zebo]

In all seriousness, my father (like most fathers) always taught me that a man is someone who stands by his principles, someone who lives with integrity and puts his family before himself. That last one is important, because as a young boy, it’s your pops who provides you with security.

That would describe a liberal. They think all humans, even black ones are their family and should not be neglected. A good conservative, socialism stops at front door. half man.:whiste:

Anyway I don't really believe in division or what I just said. There are deadbeats in all parties and persuasions and overachievers as well.

 

[PJABBER]

Hicks would be laughing his ass off over PJabber's posts....

\then lighting up a cig and talking about Jabs' desperate need for some sort of attention...

Hicks was a Lib. But manly in a way that guys like Denis Leary could not resist.

Tell me. This is the spitting image of Hicks. Lib or not lib?

 

[UberNeuman]

The door is a jar.

 

[qliveur]

Vietnam was done to appease the Republicans who wanted it.

Yeah, that's right. LBJ, the man who had Washington by the balls, sent half a million servicemen to Vietnam just because the Republicans wanted him to.

Are you really this ignorant of history, or are you merely hoping that at least some of the people here are?

 

[ichy]

Not really, what is killing manly men all over the world is that they shun responsibility and take on the role of the little lying fuckers who will rather escape all responsibility.

You mean sort of like loser Walts on the internet who pretend to be in the SAS?

 

[werepossum]

are you sure it wasn't a he?

Yeah, I've never been THAT drunk.

 

[jman19]

This thread is so un-funny it hurts.

PJABBER = massive failure.

 

[Moonbeam]

See what happens when even a hint of questioning hits the male egotist. You get a wall of morons screaming and ranting with their fingers in their ears. Real men!

 

[Moonbeam]

This thread is so un-funny it hurts.

PJABBER = massive failure.

The objective of a fool is to make you feel the shame he doesn't feel for himself.

 

[zsdersw]

Is liberalism killing "manly men"? No. Claiming victim status and shifting blame is not a "manly" thing to do.

Men are killing the stereotype of "manly men" all by themselves.

Our workforce is not nearly as male-centric as it once was.

Our families are less Normal Rockwell and Leave It To Beaver than they ever were because it's not the 1950s anymore.

The clock ticks, the months and years fly off calendars everywhere, the sun rises and sets, the leaves fall and grow back, and yet life goes on. Deal with it.

Anyone want to venture a guess on my level of "manliness"?

 

[werepossum]

Is liberalism killing "manly men"? No. Claiming victim status and shifting blame is not a "manly" thing to do.

Men are killing the stereotype of "manly men" all by themselves.

Our workforce is not nearly as male-centric as it once was.

Our families are less Normal Rockwell and Leave It To Beaver than they ever were because it's not the 1950s anymore.

The clock ticks, the months and years fly off calendars everywhere, the sun rises and sets, the leaves fall and grow back, and yet life goes on. Deal with it.

Anyone want to venture a guess on my level of "manliness"?

Ooh, let's not go there. LOL

Anyone who ever watched Leave It To Beaver and Father Knows Best and Ozzie and Harriet should remember that the fathers were usually shown as bumbling fools even then. If Ozzie gave his wife or kids a lecture on something, say, losing keys, it was a certainty that he would immediately do the same thing, try to cover it up, and fail embarrassingly.

 

[zsdersw]

Ooh, let's not go there. LOL

Why not?

Anyone who ever watched Leave It To Beaver and Father Knows Best and Ozzie and Harriet should remember that the fathers were usually shown as bumbling fools even then. If Ozzie gave his wife or kids a lecture on something, say, losing keys, it was a certainty that he would immediately do the same thing, try to cover it up, and fail embarrassingly.

Oh, I'm sure fathers were portrayed as bumbling idiots, but that's not the reason behind making the reference. The whole work/family/authority dynamic was different back then than it is today.

 

[BeauJangles]

Why not?



Oh, I'm sure fathers were portrayed as bumbling idiots, but that's not the reason behind making the reference. The whole work/family/authority dynamic was different back then than it is today.

I think you can go a lot further than that and say that life was different back then. Our increasing reliance on technology means that skills that are considered "manly" are simply less valued in our society.

 

[hal2kilo]

Our increasing reliance on technology means that skills that are considered "manly" are simply less valued in our society.

Yes, disrespect for people who perform manual labor as reflected in what they are getting paid is one of the underlying problems which will destroy our society.

If you can punch keys on a computer using someone elses algorithim and makes lots of money spinning money then you're the cat's meow.

 

[thraashman]

Everyone keeps mentioning television or movies as examples of liberalism. One of the best examples is Jimmy Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life. He places the well being of his brother, his family, his friends, and the townspeople above his own time after time. He risks his life to save his brother when they're young. He sacrifices his own honeymoon to help the townspeople during the Depression. And in the end the town saves him when things go bad because he's done so much good for them. Mr Potter is the perfect example of a conservative in the film. He's all about capitalism. He'll make a buck even if it hurts others because he's not concerned about the well-being of others. The town was saved time and again thanks to the liberal and would have been a slum if left to the hands of the conservative.

So in this example, I think only a horrible person would want to be the conservative. Liberals are just ... well .. better. We make the world a good place. Conservatives make it a war filled place where the poor are treated less than human.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I'm glad PJIBBERJABBER finally found a thread where he could post all those photos from his family album. Very enlightening.

 

[chucky2]

Everyone keeps mentioning television or movies as examples of liberalism. One of the best examples is Jimmy Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life. He places the well being of his brother, his family, his friends, and the townspeople above his own time after time. He risks his life to save his brother when they're young. He sacrifices his own honeymoon to help the townspeople during the Depression. And in the end the town saves him when things go bad because he's done so much good for them. Mr Potter is the perfect example of a conservative in the film. He's all about capitalism. He'll make a buck even if it hurts others because he's not concerned about the well-being of others. The town was saved time and again thanks to the liberal and would have been a slum if left to the hands of the conservative.

So in this example, I think only a horrible person would want to be the conservative. Liberals are just ... well .. better. We make the world a good place. Conservatives make it a war filled place where the poor are treated less than human.

If you seriously think like this, please, do not breed.

 

[PJABBER]

Everyone keeps mentioning television or movies as examples of liberalism. One of the best examples is Jimmy Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life. He places the well being of his brother, his family, his friends, and the townspeople above his own time after time. He risks his life to save his brother when they're young. He sacrifices his own honeymoon to help the townspeople during the Depression. And in the end the town saves him when things go bad because he's done so much good for them. Mr Potter is the perfect example of a conservative in the film. He's all about capitalism. He'll make a buck even if it hurts others because he's not concerned about the well-being of others. The town was saved time and again thanks to the liberal and would have been a slum if left to the hands of the conservative.

So in this example, I think only a horrible person would want to be the conservative. Liberals are just ... well .. better. We make the world a good place. Conservatives make it a war filled place where the poor are treated less than human.

Though I like Jimmy Stewart movies, I would consider them moralistic, not political. The two protagonists are both bankers. Perhaps the equality of station helps in establishing the duality of Abrahamic morality, that we have personal choices, not institutional choices, to make?

Is the lead character an R, a D or an I or a TP? Never identified. Neither are they identifying anyone as a big government liberal, the modern corruption of the original meaning, kind. Government, the Big Brother, the gorilla in the modern world, is never identified as a solution or as a cause of the issues at hand.

Let's look past the character in a play, to the man in the role.

Stewart was a conservative Republican, the kind of man you and others here loathe.

Stewart was the epitome of a Manly Man. And the kind of man I say represents the best of America.

James Maitland "Jimmy" Stewart (May 20, 1908 – July 2, 1997) was an American film and stage actor. Over the course of his career, he starred in many films widely considered classics and was nominated for five Academy Awards, winning one in competition and receiving one Lifetime Achievement award. He was a major MGM contract star. He also had a noted military career and was a World War II and Vietnam War veteran, who rose to the rank of Brigadier General in the United States Air Force Reserve.

Stewart was a staunch supporter of the Republican Party[83] and actively campaigned for Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. He was a "hawk" on the Vietnam War and told interviewers that he "absolutely hated" students who dodged the draft, condemning them as "cowards."[84] Following the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, Stewart and Charlton Heston, Kirk Douglas and Gregory Peck issued a statement calling for support of President Lyndon B. Johnson's Gun Control Act of 1968.[85]

One of his best friends was Henry Fonda, despite the fact that the two men had very different political ideologies. A political argument in 1947 resulted in a fist fight between them, but the two apparently maintained their friendship by never discussing politics again.[86] There is brief reference to their political differences in character in their movie The Cheyenne Social Club.[87] However, in the last years of his life, he donated to the campaigns of supported Bob Dole—a moderate Republican—in 1996 and Democratic Florida governor Bob Graham in his successful run for the Senate.[83]

James Stewart was active in philanthropic affairs over the years. His signature charity event, "The Jimmy Stewart Relay Marathon Race", held each year since 1982, has raised millions of dollars for the Child and Family Development Center at St. John's Health Center in Santa Monica, California.[6]

Stewart was a lifelong supporter of Scouting. He was a Second Class Scout when he was a youth, an adult Scout leader, and a recipient of the prestigious Silver Buffalo Award from the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). In later years, he made advertisements for BSA, which led to him sometimes incorrectly being identified as an Eagle Scout.[80] (Jefferson Smith in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, was also the leader of the "Boy Rangers", a fictional organization patterned after cub scouts.) An award for Boy Scouts, "The James M. Stewart Good Citizenship Award" has been presented since May 17, 2003.[81]

One of Stewart's lesser-known talents was his homespun poetry. He once read a poem that he had written about his dog, entitled "Beau," while on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. By the end of this reading, Carson's eyes were welling with tears.[82] This was later parodied on a late 1980s episode of the NBC sketch show Saturday Night Live, with Dana Carvey as Stewart reciting the poem on Weekend Update and bringing anchor Dennis Miller to tears.

Stewart had a distinguished military career.

Military service


James M. Stewart

Allegiance

United States of America

Service/branch

United States Army Air Forces
United States Air Force Reserve

Years of service 1941–1968

Rank Major General

Unit 445th Bombardment Group
453rd Bombardment Group
Eighth Air Force Strategic Air Command

Commands held

703rd Bombardment Squadron
Dobbins Air Force Base

Battles/wars

World War II
Vietnam War

Awards

Distinguished Service Medal
Distinguished Flying Cross (2)
Air Medal (4)
Army Commendation Medal
Armed Forces Reserve Medal
Presidential Medal of Freedom
French Croix de Guerre with Palm

The Stewart family had deep military roots as both grandfathers had fought in the Civil War, and his father had served during both the Spanish-American War and World War I. Since Stewart considered his father to be the biggest influence on his life, it was not surprising that when another war eventually came, he too served.

Although members of his family had previously served in the infantry, Stewart chose to become a military flyer.[24]

An early interest in flying led Stewart to gain his Private Pilot certificate in 1935 and Commercial Pilot certificate in 1938. He often flew cross-country to visit his parents in Pennsylvania, navigating by the railroad tracks.[6] Nearly two years before the December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, Stewart had accumulated over 400 hours of flying time.[25]

Considered a highly proficient pilot, he even entered a cross-country race as a co-pilot in 1939.[26] Along with musician/composer Hoagy Carmichael, seeing the need for trained war pilots, Stewart joined with other Hollywood celebrities to invest in Thunderbird Field, a pilot training school built and operated by Southwest Airways in Glendale, Arizona. This airfield became part of the United States Army Air Forces training establishment and trained more than 10,000 pilots during WWII, and is now the home of Thunderbird School of Global Management.[27]

Later in 1940, Stewart was drafted into the United States Army but was rejected for failing to meet height and weight requirements for new recruits—Stewart was five pounds (2.3 kg) under the standard. To get up to 148 pounds he sought out the help of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's muscle man, Don Loomis, who was noted for his ability to add or subtract pounds in his studio gymnasium.

Stewart subsequently attempted to enlist in the Army Air Corps, but still came in under the weight requirement, although he persuaded the AAC enlistment officer to run new tests, this time passing the weigh-in,[28] with the result that Stewart successfully enlisted in the Army in March 1941. He became the first major American movie star to wear a military uniform in World War II.

Stewart enlisted as a private[6][29] and began pilot training in the USAAC. During this time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, bringing the US into direct involvement in the war. Stewart continued his military training and earned a commission as a second lieutenant in January, 1942. He was posted to Moffett Field and then Mather Field as an instructor pilot in single- and twin-engine aircraft.[29]

Public appearances by Stewart were limited engagements scheduled by the Army Air Forces. "Stewart appeared several times on network radio with Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy. Shortly after Pearl Harbor, he performed with Orson Welles, Edward G. Robinson, Walter Huston and Lionel Barrymore in an all-network radio program called We Hold These Truths, dedicated to the 150th anniversary of the Bill of Rights."[30] In early 1942, Stewart was asked to appear in a propaganda film to help recruit the anticipated 100,000 airmen the USAAF would need to win the war. The USAAF's First Motion Picture Unit shot scenes of Lieutenant Stewart in his pilot's flight suit and recorded his voice for narration. The short film, Winning Your Wings, appeared nationwide beginning in late May and was very successful, resulting in 150,000 new recruits.[31]

Stewart was concerned that his expertise and celebrity status would relegate him to instructor duties "behind the lines."[32] His fears were confirmed when he was stationed for six months at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico to train bombardiers. He was transferred to Hobbs AAF to become an instructor pilot for the four-engined B-17 Flying Fortress. He trained B-17 pilots for nine months at Gowen Field in Boise, Idaho.[29]

"Still, the war was moving on. For the 36-year-old Stewart, combat duty seemed far away and unreachable and he had no clear plans for the future. But then a rumor that Stewart would be taken off flying status and assigned to making training films or selling bonds called for his immediate and decisive action, because what he dreaded most was the hope-shattering spectre of a dead end."[33] Stewart appealed to his commander, a pre-war aviator, who understood the situation and reassigned him to a unit going overseas.

In August 1943 he was finally assigned to the 445th Bombardment Group at Sioux City AAB, Iowa, first as Operations Officer of the 703rd Bombardment Squadron and then as its commander, at the rank of Captain. In December, the 445th Bombardment Group flew its B-24 Liberator bombers to RAF Tibenham, Norfolk, England and immediately began combat operations. While flying missions over Germany, Stewart was promoted to Major.

In March 1944, he was transferred as group operations officer to the 453rd Bombardment Group, a new B-24 unit that had been experiencing difficulties. As a means to inspire his new group, Stewart flew as command pilot in the lead B-24 on numerous missions deep into Nazi-occupied Europe. These missions went uncounted at Stewart's orders. His "official" total is listed as 20 and is limited to those with the 445th.

Col. Stewart being awarded the Croix de guerre with palm by Lt. Gen. Henri Valin, Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, for his role in the liberation of France.

In 1944, he twice received the Distinguished Flying Cross for actions in combat and was awarded the Croix de Guerre. He also received the Air Medal with three oak leaf clusters. In July 1944, after flying 20 combat missions, Stewart was made Chief of Staff of the 2nd Combat Bombardment Wing of the Eighth Air Force. Before the war ended, he was promoted to colonel, one of very few Americans to rise from private to colonel in four years.[6][29]

At the beginning of June 1945, Stewart was the presiding officer of the court-martial of a pilot and navigator who were charged with dereliction of duty when they accidentally bombed the Swiss city of Zurich the previous March—the first instance of U.S. personnel being tried over an attack on a neutral country. The Court acquitted the accused.[34]

Stewart continued to play an active role in the United States Air Force Reserve after the war, achieving the rank of Brigadier General on July 23, 1959.[35] Stewart did not often talk of his wartime service, perhaps due to his desire to be seen as a regular soldier doing his duty instead of as a celebrity. He did appear on the TV series The World At War to discuss the October 14, 1943 bombing mission to Schweinfurt, which was the center of the German ball bearing manufacturing industry. This mission is known in USAF history as Black Thursday due to the high casualties it sustained; in total, 60 aircraft were lost out of 291 dispatched, as the raid consisting entirely of B-17s was unescorted all the way to Schweinfurt and back due to the available escort aircraft lacking the range. Upon his request, he was identified only as "James Stewart, Squadron Commander" in the documentary.[36]

He served as Air Force Reserve commander of Dobbins Air Reserve Base in the early 1950s. In 1966, Brigadier General James Stewart flew as a non-duty observer in a B-52 on a bombing mission during the Vietnam War. At the time of his B-52 flight, he refused the release of any publicity regarding his participation as he did not want it treated as a stunt, but as part of his job as an officer in the Air Force Reserve. After 27 years of service, Stewart retired from the Air Force on May 31, 1968.[37] After his retirement, he was promoted to Major General by President Ronald Reagan.

 

[werepossum]

Though I like Jimmy Stewart movies, I would consider them moralistic, not political. The two protagonists are both bankers. Perhaps the equality of station helps in establishing the duality of Abrahamic morality, that we have personal choices, not institutional choices, to make?

Is the lead character an R, a D or an I or a TP? Never identified. Neither are they identifying anyone as a big government liberal, the modern corruption of the original meaning, kind. Government, the Big Brother, the gorilla in the modern world, is never identified as a solution or as a cause of the issues at hand.

Let's look past the character in a play, to the man in the role.

Stewart was a conservative Republican, the kind of man you and others here loathe.

Stewart was the epitome of a Manly Man. And the kind of man I say represents the best of America.

Stewart had a distinguished military career.

Damned well said, thanks! Jimmy Stewart was a hell of a man, and frankly I wish I could be a tenth of the man he was. He was a man of boundless strength, endless compassion, and great humility, and he does still indeed represent the best of America. (And Harvey is still my favorite movie of all time, and my favorite movie role.)

I never had a bit of use for John Wayne after he criticized Stewart for playing a weak character, because "people like us" have a responsibility to only play strong, positive characters. An actor who believes that those actors who play bad and/or weak characters are automatically less in real life deserve no respect.

 

[PJABBER]

Damned well said, thanks! Jimmy Stewart was a hell of a man, and frankly I wish I could be a tenth of the man he was. He was a man of boundless strength, endless compassion, and great humility, and he does still indeed represent the best of America. (And Harvey is still my favorite movie of all time, and my favorite movie role.)

I never had a bit of use for John Wayne after he criticized Stewart for playing a weak character, because "people like us" have a responsibility to only play strong, positive characters. An actor who believes that those actors who play bad and/or weak characters are automatically less in real life deserve no respect.

I wasn't aware that Wayne was critical like that. Wayne played tough guys in movies, but was never in the military himself. From what I understand he was ever regretful for not fighting harder to get away from being a movie star to actually enlisting in the military in WWII and had a conflicted personal life subsequently over that.

I don't condemn him, though, as he was exemplary in supporting the military and the causes of liberty for the rest of his life.

I believe manly men do not have to suppress creativity or kindness or empathy to be manly. It is an obligation of the modern manly man to be true to family and friends and to contribute to the furtherance and betterment of community and society. Military service is but one way of doing so and, for the special demands it has, it must neccessarily be limited to only a portion of the population.

What I admire in Stewart is that he was a quiet tough guy. He wasn't the type to point to his contributions and brag. His actions spoke for themselves.

 

[irishScott]

The problem here is the definition of liberalism, which is largely subjective. Extreme liberalism will create pussies. Extreme conservatism will create neanderthals. Thus the answer is not "liberalism bad, conservative good" but "take the strengths of each and the weaknesses of neither." In short, be a fucking individual.

Self reliance, independent of political ideology, is something to strive for.
Physical and mental strength, independent of politics, is something to strive for.
*insert whatever value you admire here* is, independent of ideology, something to strive for (for you at least).

Bottom line is blaming politics for weak people is a double edged sword at best and completely nonsensical at worst. It only works for those whose identity is closely (if note entirely) linked to their political ideology. So if we go look at liberal extremists, they're pretty much guaranteed to be pussies compared to their conservative extremist breatheren, who are in turn likely to be a hell of a lot less educated. The closer you get to the center, the less your definition(s) fit(s).

 

[PJABBER]

The problem here is the definition of liberalism, which is largely subjective. Extreme liberalism will create pussies. Extreme conservatism will create neanderthals. Thus the answer is not "liberalism bad, conservative good" but "take the strengths of each and the weaknesses of neither." In short, be a fucking individual.

Self reliance, independent of political ideology, is something to strive for.
Physical and mental strength, independent of politics, is something to strive for.

*insert whatever value you admire here* is, independent of ideology, something to strive for (for you at least).

Bottom line is blaming politics for weak people is a double edged sword at best and completely nonsensical at worst. It only works for those whose identity is closely (if note entirely) linked to their political ideology. So if we go look at liberal extremists, they're pretty much guaranteed to be pussies compared to their conservative extremist breatheren, who are in turn likely to be a hell of a lot less educated. The closer you get to the center, the less your definition(s) fit(s).

Well said.

I cringe every time I have to use the word "liberal" to describe characteristics that are more accurately those of "progressives/socialists/communists/communalists" and other big government dependency advocates that inevitably deny the strength that can be found in people no matter their sex or race.

Liberalism in its original form, and still used in such a description everywhere but here, is much different than the social or socialist ideal the term represents here.

There is a huge gap between the individual liberalism of the classical liberal and the big government/weak individual variant of socialism, and, yes, the extremes are seldom worthy representations of the ideals of either.