Is John McCain A Conservative?

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: senseamp


In this sense they are. Economic conservatism is just as Utopian as foreign policy neoconservatism.

Wrong. Go find out what the difference is between Neoconservatives and Conservative is. I will agree there are few real conservatives, but by far not dead.

It's dead as a realistic political movement. Its own proponents turned their back on it when they had the chance to implement it.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Conservatism is dead, get over it.

You say that like its a good thing. :thumbsdown:

Because it is :thumbsup:

How so?

Conservatives are Utopian thinkers who have done nothing but sabotage the proper running of our government in the last 30 years.

Do not confuse Neoconservatives and Conservatives as being one and the same.

In this sense they are. Econoomic conservatism is just as Utopian as foreign policy neoconservatism.

But you specifically said conservatives have been sabotaging the government for the last 30 years. Conservatives are a very small minority in government and have had no significant impact on policy.

I simply don't understand what you're trying to say, because economic conservative policy is what America prospered on until about 1913, and then we started trying to control the free market, started increasing taxes, started creating deficits (ie spending our children's money).

I'd argue that 30 years ago is about when conservatives completely lost power. When we abandoned the gold standard and we started to lower the value of the dollar. Barry Goldwater was one of the last major conservatives in our government.

If anything, the last 30 years is a utopia of Corporatism stupidity, and the US Economy is very fragle, very artificial. Once the Baby Boomers start trying to collect their children's and grandchildren's money in 10 years, when we have twice as many retired people as working people, things will HAVE to change financially and this utopia will come to an end.

It's BS to say America prospered on until about 1913 because of Conservatism. It prospered because it was a growing industrializing nation. It also prospered during the 50s under very liberal policies and high tax rates and government spending.
Conservative movement is utopian. There is a reason real conservatives don't get elected. Americans don't want the whole of what they are selling. They just want low taxes, but not small government. Of course it's unsustainably naive to have one without the other, but that hasn't stopped the conservatives from trying.

Point 1: You completely missed the point. I completely disproved your "conservativism is a utopia" bullshit by giving an example of the United States prospering under it for over 100 years.

Point 2: Those that want low taxes, but no cuts in spending aren't conservatives.

The status quo utopia is destroying America right now.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's BS to say America prospered on until about 1913 because of Conservatism. It prospered because it was a growing industrializing nation. It also prospered during the 50s under very liberal policies and high tax rates and government spending.
Conservative movement is utopian. There is a reason real conservatives don't get elected. Americans don't want the whole of what they are selling. They just want low taxes, but not small government. Of course it's unsustainably naive to have one without the other, but that hasn't stopped the conservatives from trying.

What do you base that statement on?

When is the last time a liberal went around call himself a liberal??

How come you never hear Hillary or Obama claiming they are the ?liberal? candidate in this election?

But you have ALL the Republicans fighting over which one of them is the ?conservative? candidate.

And recently you have seen Obama and all the Republicans talk about Reagan in a positive light, the Republicans claim him as inspiration as did Obama.

The conservative movement is FAR from dead, it just doesn?t have a good leader at this point.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Ann Coulter said on Hannity and Colmes she'd vote for Hillary if it's Clinton vs McCain

Ah, so you listen to Ann Coulter as gospel now? :laugh:

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: eits
he's a conservative. if you look at what he's for and against and his voting record, it's pretty obvious.

before, i kinda liked john mccain because i thought he was more of a left-leaning conservative, but that was because i didn't really know that much about him.

Left leaning? What?

I think you mean authoritarian leaning, which is what makes him so close to democrats.

wow...

learn the political spectrum, please.

http://members.cox.net/studio12/usprimaries_2007.jpg this might help with your first lesson.

That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: senseamp
Ann Coulter said on Hannity and Colmes she'd vote for Hillary if it's Clinton vs McCain

Ah, so you listen to Ann Coulter as gospel now? :laugh:

... pabster, you're really freaking me out, dude.

who are you and what've you done with the complete idiot i used to know as pabster?

i'm definitely liking the new pabsters :thumbsup:

 

[Fingolfin269]

Can't a candidate be both a liberal and a conservative?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend
[That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

Having RP on the Authoritarian side is what is ridiculous.

They're correct.

Also, he holds some views to the left of the 2 Dem candidates. Get out of Iraq now (and other foreign countries too) and voted "no" the Patriot Act etc.

The chart is FUBAR'd

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend
[That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

Having RP on the Authoritarian side is what is ridiculous.

They're correct.

Also, he holds some views to the left of the 2 Dem candidates. Get out of Iraq now (and other foreign countries too) and voted "no" the Patriot Act etc.

The chart is FUBAR'd

Fern

How is the chart FUBAR? Yes he holds some views to the left of Democratic candidates. He also hold far more views to the right of them. Hence, he is to the right of them. What you guys aren't remembering is that the chart is on a worldwide scale. America is an incredibly right wing country... the views of our 'liberal' party frequently line up with the conservative parties of other countries. There are also plenty of his views that are authoritarian, (his view on abortion for one) but within the context of America, which is moderately authoritarian and extremely conservative in most other ways measured, he looks positively anarchistic.

Just remember its on a global scale and the chart will make complete sense to you.

 

[fskimospy]

Here is the analysis for those who care to read it.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend
[That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

Having RP on the Authoritarian side is what is ridiculous.

They're correct.

Also, he holds some views to the left of the 2 Dem candidates. Get out of Iraq now (and other foreign countries too) and voted "no" the Patriot Act etc.

The chart is FUBAR'd

Fern

Agreed. Paul should be slightly more right, and about half-way down the bottom right quadrant. I mean, if Paul is leaning Authoritarian, then are your anarchists just below the vertical axis? What's below that? People that just want to shoot everyone and live in solitude?

Most Republicans should be in the top center to the top right.

Most Democrats to the top center and top left.

I think Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel are roughly correct.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend
[That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

Having RP on the Authoritarian side is what is ridiculous.

They're correct.

Also, he holds some views to the left of the 2 Dem candidates. Get out of Iraq now (and other foreign countries too) and voted "no" the Patriot Act etc.

The chart is FUBAR'd

Fern

it wasn't about the chart... it was about the political spectrum. go back and read the first thing legend wrote.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Can't a candidate be both a liberal and a conservative?

as far as the republican establishment is concerned, you're either 100% with them or 100% against them.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Legend
[That distribution doesn't make sense at all. What is this based on? Somone who answered questions for that severely flawed online political test for what they think the candidates believe in? That's your source?

Having Ron Paul so close to Clinton should raise a huge flag. In fact, having Paul closer to Authoritarian than Libertarian is just wrong.

All of those candidates are to the "Right"? What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean economically conservative because both parties have increased the size of government during their terms.

well said :thumbsup:

haha you both are so dense, it's ridiculous

Having RP on the Authoritarian side is what is ridiculous.

They're correct.

Also, he holds some views to the left of the 2 Dem candidates. Get out of Iraq now (and other foreign countries too) and voted "no" the Patriot Act etc.

The chart is FUBAR'd

Fern

Agreed. Paul should be slightly more right, and about half-way down the bottom right quadrant. I mean, if Paul is leaning Authoritarian, then are your anarchists just below the vertical axis? What's below that? People that just want to shoot everyone and live in solitude?

Most Republicans should be in the top center to the top right.

Most Democrats to the top center and top left.

I think Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel are roughly correct.

you might want to email them and tell everyone who put together the information to come up with the diagram, then... since all-knowing legend disagrees.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008