Is it worth getting a University Degree?

[poofyhairguy]

But in any event, is it worth a 250k debt package?

I think so. That kind of network can help with with more than just jobs. Total life benefit for a large network is pretty huge.

For example, I rear-ended this guy the other day while driving. Completely my fault, I followed too close. He launches out of the car screaming at me super pissed off.

I see the familiar sticker on his car window so I immediately responded "I am sorry sir, I feel so ashamed hitting a fellow Alumni."

He turned on a dime. He calmed down, started chatting with me, didn't mind my insurance was out of date and didn't call the cops.

That experience alone saved me money and hassle that will never be accounted for in lifetime earnings.

 

[Exterous]

I disagree with that.

In the modern economy "who you know" can often determine whether you are employed or not. By attending a large public university you are plugged into a network of alumni that gives you a huge competitive advantage.

There is a way to split the difference: Do a couple of years at a cheaper school and transfer. Its what I did. No one sees the two years at the cheap school but everyone sees the prestigious, well known university that I got my diploma from. I will also agree that the prestige of your school can open doors in many situations

 

[BurnItDwn]

Many degrees are worth getting. Some degrees are not worth the cost.

In general, a dental degree will get you ~120k right out of school (bottom 10% salary figure). That is significantly above the median income in the country.

If you compare to an electrician, sure, the electrician may spend 200K less on school, and they may start working 6 years sooner, and they make a decent salary as well.

per salary.com
Median range for 0-2yr experience electrician is 37-50k ~43K is median figure.
Median range for 3-5yr experience electrician is 45-58K ~52K is median figure
After 5 years, median salary is around 60K.

So, in the first 2 years the electrician will make about 86K. In the next 3 years, another 156K. In the next year, 60K (very rough figures, location obviously plays a big role here.)

So, 6 years, dentist in school pay 200K. Electritian working make 300K
so figure 300K + 200K, electritian has about a haly a million dollar "head start" vs a dentist.

But, in the long run, a Dentist starting out over 100K, (Range to cover 80% of dentists is 120K to 210K, with median of 150K) or more per year will "break even" with the electrician in about 15 years.

Over the course of a career, assuming retirmeent age of 65, and electritian works from 19-65, dentist works from 25-65

Dentist would earn around 6 million during the career in "current" dollars over a 40 year career earning an avg of about 150K per year...

Electritian would earn about 2.76 million over a 46 year career averaging about 60K per year overall. (more if they start their own business, or if they specialize in aircraft or some specific industry vs general construction.)


So, it takes a LONG time for most college degrees to pay off vs trade schools, however, certain degrees provide HUGE earning potential increases, thus, are in most cases worthwhile.

 

[poofyhairguy]

There is a way to split the difference: Do a couple of years at a cheaper school and transfer. Its what I did. No one sees the two years at the cheap school but everyone sees the prestigious, well known university that I got my diploma from. I will also agree that the prestige of your school can open doors in many situations

Great point. Get every hour cheap you can. I did the same thing- transferred in and then I still took a few non-core courses for cheaper at a local community college. I had the maximum number of transfer credit they would allow.

EDIT: I also think there is good value in certain masters for networking as well. My MBA gave me a network that brought me many job interviews because people saw me perform well in class and could recommend me with a clear conscience.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

So, it takes a LONG time for most college degrees to pay off vs trade schools, however, certain degrees provide HUGE earning potential increases, thus, are in most cases worthwhile.

IT's not even that. You might get lucky getting ajob without a college degree at first, but then say the economy tanks in 5 years. You get laid off. Then what? I bet you millions of MBAs, PhDs, and BSes will be laid off simultaneously too. So as you compete to get a job once again, you expect them to do worse than you?

In the modern economy "who you know" can often determine whether you are employed or not. By attending a large public university you are plugged into a network of alumni that gives you a huge competitive advantage.

Large public university doesn't guarantee you great connections. I went to UC Berkeley. Top public school. I know a ton of people sure, but I feel like the alumni connection just isn't there. Meanwhile my gf is from MIT. The shear number of friends she has on the west coast from her school is ridiculous. I have a ton of Berkeley friends but it's almost like we don't have the Berkeley connection anymore, it's about something else. She has more friends than me considering she's on the opposite coast. If I moved to NYC, I doubt I know more than 10 people from college there.

Some schools just do a better job in terms of networking. These large public schools really don't help you. It's the equivalent of being in a large pool of people. It's still up to you. On the other hand I find that some other schools like MIT or USC really do a good job in helping alums keep in touch with local events and stuff. She's gone to several reunions already for her school, whereas I have no freaking clue about any reunion about my school except possibly the homecoming events.

The idea of going to a no name tiny school versus a prestigious or top tier school or whatever isn't just about networking. I feel like it's brand name recognition. The sheer number of MIT, Stanford, Berkeley grads working at Google, Apple, and software startups is amazing. You're not going to get that from just any school.

 

[Midwayman]

IT's not even that. You might get lucky getting ajob without a college degree at first, but then say the economy tanks in 5 years. You get laid off. Then what? I bet you millions of MBAs, PhDs, and BSes will be laid off simultaneously too. So as you compete to get a job once again, you expect them to do worse than you?

Depends if you get a skill or are trying to find a McOfficeJob. You should spend your first years out of high school trying to learn something. It doesn't have to be a degree or certification. The more corporate type of job you get, the more required a degree is though. I have a buddy with tons of experience in systems testing, etc and was like failed one class the last semester of engineering school and never finished it. Its sort of haunted him ever since because many places he'd work aren't allowed to hire people who don't have the degree. I on the other hand work in a field where a degree is entirely optional. Yah most people have one, but you can do just fine without.

 

[Ruptga]

Without reading the thread, I'd take the apprenticeship and work toward the degree part time, probably after apprenticing for a little while so I could get ahead of the game. Bonus points if you find a way to satisfy degree requirements through the apprenticeship.

Doing both, you get the benefits of both. Namely, better income now (since I would expect even an apprentice makes a decent wage), and better income later, since you will have a degree. Plus, around here a degree is nice, but what people really want (in the entry level) is experience. Anyone can bullshit through classes, it is a lot harder to bullshit a job for a year or two.

 

[sciencewhiz]

And since the market is flooded with BS degrees, what now?

Unemployment rate:
High school dropout: 11.1%
High school degree: 7.4%
Some College: 6.5%
Bachelors Degree or higher: 3.8%

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

 

[Red Squirrel]

For something like dentist, probably. Though if you can actually be a dentist with just an apprenticeship then I suppose it's worth trying that route first and see if you get lucky. If not then go to university. Sadly the resume screening process is not based on what you know but how much school you went through, and in some cases who you know.

Also check what the market in your area is for dentists, is there a shortage, surplus? that's a big factor too.

 

[Exterous]

Large public university doesn't guarantee you great connections.

(Snip)

These large public schools really don't help you. It's the equivalent of being in a large pool of people.

It really depends on the school. I went to one of the top 25 largest Universities and the alum network is amazing. While I haven't gone to any reunions I was really surprised about how nepotistic the graduates from there are

 

[boomhower]

In general yes. A very very simple way to knock down the cost considerably with few downsides for most situations is to take your first two years at a community college and then complete your final two years at the university of your choice. You'll get the same degree as someone who completed all four years at the university for half the cost, or less.

 

[Texashiker]

Unemployment rate:
High school dropout: 11.1%
High school degree: 7.4%
Some College: 6.5%
Bachelors Degree or higher: 3.8%

Have you considered it is not the level of education, but the level of motivation and dedication?

Someone who is willing to put forth the effort to go to school will also put forth the effort to look for a job.

Someone that was not willing to finish high school may not be motivated to look for a job. In other words they are lazy.

There is a difference in someone who drops out of high school, goes into retail and is not wiling to put forth an effort to improve themselves, and someone who drops out of high school, learns a skill (welding, AC repair, truck driving) and puts forth an effort to improve their life.

Some people go to college, some people learn how to drive a truck, some people learn how to weld, some people go into construction, oilfield work,,,,,

If "everyone" went to college, who is going to build our roads, who is going to pick up the garbage,,, who is going to do the jobs that make everyday life possible?

 

[JEDI]

There are many alternatives like, Apprenticeships.

I'm a 1st year undergraduate studying Dentistry and I have received my exam results today. I passed 5/6. I need to resit my failed module, otherwise I cannot continue to studying in 2nd year.

Stuff really put me of Uni are:
I will be over £45k + in debt.
My course cost £9k per year (3 year course and this doesn't include accommodation etc)
ALSO, if I fail my failed module in the resit, I need to pay ANOTHER £9k to redo 1st year IF I fail the module...

So my question is, is it worth getting a degree nowadays? Apprenticeship is free!!! and Uni is not! but... :thumbsdown:

Yes I understand that you have more chance of getting a job vs a non degree holder. But that is not fuking true!? D:

How did you get your job? Degree? or no degree?

Dentristy? Father Divine weeps...

theres no $ in dentristy anymore. floride, better knowledge of flossing and dental hygene, and worsening insurance payments will make life tough for you.
unless u become one of those scummy dentists that pulls out more teeth than the patient agreed to. 😱

and recommend deep root cleaning 4x/year to milk the patient, no matter the pain you're causing him/her.

oh.. pounds?? you're in the UK? nevermind

 

[Murloc]

idk how it is in the UK but here to go to university to study dentristry 99% of times it means you got a theoretical higher secondary education (high school only for those who want to go university, you learn nothing practical) and beginning an apprenticeship now would be a waste of 4 years (in my country), since apprenticeships/professional school tracks begin after middle school.
So you should just study and not lose the motivation because of one exam. Dentists can run their own study and make good money, I think it's a good job.
With professional education you can only be an hygienist which is not bad but you're still just a technician/nurse.

 

[TecHNooB]

Have you considered it is not the level of education, but the level of motivation and dedication?

Someone who is willing to put forth the effort to go to school will also put forth the effort to look for a job.

Someone that was not willing to finish high school may not be motivated to look for a job. In other words they are lazy.

There is a difference in someone who drops out of high school, goes into retail and is not wiling to put forth an effort to improve themselves, and someone who drops out of high school, learns a skill (welding, AC repair, truck driving) and puts forth an effort to improve their life.

Some people go to college, some people learn how to drive a truck, some people learn how to weld, some people go into construction, oilfield work,,,,,

If "everyone" went to college, who is going to build our roads, who is going to pick up the garbage,,, who is going to do the jobs that make everyday life possible?

juan the gardener

 

[Cappuccino]

Dentristy? Father Divine weeps...

theres no $ in dentristy anymore. floride, better knowledge of flossing and dental hygene, and worsening insurance payments will make life tough for you.
unless u become one of those scummy dentists that pulls out more teeth than the patient agreed to. 😱

and recommend deep root cleaning 4x/year to milk the patient, no matter the pain you're causing him/her.

oh.. pounds?? you're in the UK? nevermind

You are very smart and intelligence. I think everyone should pursue a career like yours.

'Degree: Masters in Viagra (Summa Cum Loude), Job: Porn Star, Salary: YEAH, BABY!
← Also has BS in Asian Massage studies
You know you're boring when God falls asleep on you '
(JEDI Signature)

 

[edro]

I doubt you can practice dentistry without some sort of state certification, which probably requires a degree from an approved university.

You sure as hell can't practice medicine or law without a degree from an approved university.

...at least, I don't think you can.

 

[randomrogue]

Get a degree. One that lands a job. No fluff. You need a degree since nobody is going to hire you for anything but the most remedial job and if you're older and need a job who do you think they're going to hire for McDonalds - the 35 year old with a high school education or the kid trying to pay his way through college?

Stop failing your classes.

 

[JTsyo]

Here being a dentists is almost like being a (an?) MD in terms of schooling.

 

[Exterous]

Have you considered it is not the level of education, but the level of motivation and dedication?

Well, given that jobs for those with college degrees is up 2 million and jobs for those with a HS diploma or less are down 5.6 million since the recession started I would go with 'its more than just motivation and dedication'

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/CollegeAdvantage.FullReport.081512.pdf

 

[Markbnj]

Dentristy? Father Divine weeps...

theres no $ in dentristy anymore. floride, better knowledge of flossing and dental hygene, and worsening insurance payments will make life tough for you.
unless u become one of those scummy dentists that pulls out more teeth than the patient agreed to. 😱

and recommend deep root cleaning 4x/year to milk the patient, no matter the pain you're causing him/her.

oh.. pounds?? you're in the UK? nevermind

There's plenty of work for dentists, especially good ones. I've known our dentist for 15 years, and his office is always busy.

 

[Doppel]

Generally it is worth it and study after study confirms it.

 

[mkrohn]

do all of your BS 1st/second year type coursework at a local junior college because most of them have nice transfer programs to the bigger schools. Personally I'm working on 2 different associates right now that both completely transfer towards my chosen bachelors and I'll be 6 credits off a third associates that if I can fit into the schedule I will. $100 a credit hour VS $400+ = no brainer. If you're in the US CLEP out of everything you possibly can.

 

[poofyhairguy]

the 35 year old with a high school education or the kid trying to pay his way through college

The 35 year old.

The college kid is obviously not committed to a McDonalds career, has better options, and might drop the job if the going gets tough.

The 35 year old has no options, he has to work at that job. If one day someone comes in a destroys the bathroom he can't just quit like the college kid- he has to clean it up. And their only career path is you, so they will probably stick around and be a store manager one day when that kid is off saving lives or running a large company.

That is from the employer standpoint. As the employee being a 35 year old cleaning up epic messes in McDonald's bathrooms would make me want to eat a bullet.