Is it true......

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Doomer

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 1999
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#26
MSW, I know that the world majority are good honest people and that they come in all flavors. My point is that good honest people should remain vigilant by comdeming evil irregardless of wheather it occurs in whatever group they associate themselves with or not.
I want to puke every time an evil act is mentoned and an "associate" goes on the defensive. An evil act in the name of Catholism is an evil Catholic act. An evil act in the name of Christianity is an evil Christain act. To paraphrase Forest Gump, Evil is As Evil does.

I don't associate myself with any creed, group, club, religion, etc. Simply because I prefer not to be associated with the stupid crowd mentality the is always present in any group. Think of all the Stupid people who followed Hitler to the grave. Most of whom never knew the man.

I place no one between myself and God. The Pope or whomever will just have to live with it.

Thank you very much. Elvis has left the building :p
 

AMDJunkie

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 1999
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#27
Then isn't it also true that good is what good does? How many missionaries have you built? How many homeless shelters have you set up? Before you can condemn something for anything it has done wrong, you must also look at how many things they have done right.

e.g. I have looked at Intel and said, "The PC industry would be in a slump if there was no competition, not to mention they use every monopolistic tactic in the book." So I support AMD to make sure processors are cheap and fast, thank us AMD zealots for it. But if youdon't have an Intel to beat on, AMD would become a monopoly, and we'd be stuck in the same rut as we had before. Intel provides competition, which gives consumers the best prices and choices. So even Intel provides some good.
 
Jun 30, 2000
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#28
Um, "Elvis"

An evil act done in the name of Catholicism is ONLY a "Catholic act" in the mind of the sicko committing the travisty. Do you think the rest of the Catholics support the act? No.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that I'm an "associate" of the Catholic religion. I am not. I was raised Catholic, but I do not practice that faith anymore.
 
Jul 6, 2000
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#29
I am in no way taking the side of Doomer but you have to admit that Catholisism does have many skeletons in its closet. But so does just about ever other organized religion. That is why I do not go to church. What, no skeletons in the closet? Lets see: the inquisition, the crusades, the whole concept of praying to anyone other that God himself, the whole idea of excamunication, and lets not forget the fact that it is the catholic church which has the original biblical texts that they just so happen to not share with the public. What's up with the Vatican anyway? What do they have to hide? I wonder how much money the catholic church makes each year. What do they do with that money? In my opinion, a true christian who's goal is to spread the word would not spend so much money on churches. Have you noticed the size of most catholic churches? Good God! Couldn't some of that money have given starving people food to eat. And the confession thing. Why the hell do you confess your sins to another sinner? Confess your sins to god, not some "priest". This is just the tip of the iceberg. I do not intend to say that all catholics are terible people. I just think that catholisism is not the way God intends to be worshiped, or any other organized religion. Most of church is just a fasion show anyways.

And a quick question off the topic for the christian people out there. Does everyone but Christians go to "hell"? If so that means the majority of the people in the world are goning to hell. I just dont like the idea of that.

I could go on forever but I am afraid I have already made enough people angry. Am I the only one that feels this way.
 

Athanasius

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
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#30


<< . . . history shows that more good honest people have been murdered in the name of Christ than all wars combined . . . >>




Not true. Be careful about hyperbole in a religious thread. It unneccesarily &quot;stokes the coals&quot; :)

Institutions are judged by history, individuals are judged by God. Institutions cannot be forgiven because there is no individual to forgive. If you must judge, judge each professing Christian by their lifestyle and works in correspondence to the ideals taught by the historic, biblical, and orthodox Christian faith. And recognize that with the measure you use, it shall be measured unto you.
 

AMDJunkie

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 1999
3,429
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#31
In the Clouds:

1.) It is a common misconception that we Catholics pray to saints. We pray to God, and sometimes we pray to Him with a dedication to a saint.

2.) The size of Catholic Churches are large because they have a large congregation. Are you going to try to fit 1000+ people in a shotgun shack? Even St. Paul's in Tampa, which is very large, gets somewhat crowded.

3.) Jesus gave the power to the apostles to forgive sins at the reception of the Holy Spirit . Priests and bishops are, technically, the successors to the apostles. Therefore, they have the ability to forgive sins.

4.) God knows whether you feel unsatisfied with the &quot;rituals&quot; of a certain religion or if you are too lazy to go to church. ;)
 

Doomer

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 1999
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#32
Somebody explain to me how anyone or any group familiar with the teachings of Jesus can condone a &quot;Holy War&quot; or murder or torture, etc?
I know the Pope just resently asked for forgiveness for the sins of the church but tell me, does this wipe the slate clean?
Maybe we should forgive and set free those imprisioned for murder when they ask for forgiveness. :(

Just to claify. It is not my intent to insult inocent people. Unfortunately guilty institutions happen to be made up of inocent individuals. What irony :p
 
Nov 30, 1999
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#33


<< And a quick question off the topic for the christian people out there. Does everyone but Christians go to &quot;hell&quot;? If so that means the majority of the people in the world are goning to hell. >>



Yeap....I cant say who is and who isnt but the christian belief says that the only way to the Father is Through Jesus.



<< I just dont like the idea of that. >>



Yeah it kinda sucks doesnt it? Oh well....thats life. When people focus on the negatives of christianity (or granted, any religion) and what happens when they dont do what they should, they miss the whole point of the positives and what becomes of there good acts. does that make sense? im tired...so sue me.
 

bones10

Senior member
May 23, 2000
251
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#34
Doomer,

It appears from your posts that you are focusing a lot on the deeds of the church and church goers. The problem with that is that the basic Christian belief is *not* &quot;do enough good things so you get to heaven&quot;.

The core of the Christian belief is being forgiven for the bad things you have done and then having a relationship with the one who has forgiven you, Jesus.

The good deed/being a good person thing is a side effect of having a relationship with Jesus. And its pretty slow at that. The good deeds don't cuase the relationship with Jesus. That relationship is cuased by the forgiveness.

So with the Christain Church its the same as with any other organization. You put a bunch of sinful people together and low and behold you get an organization that has the likelyhood of doing crazy, stupid, bad things. That's just human nature.

It seems that you may have had an encounter with the Catholic church, but missed having an encounter with God.

- bones
 

pseudo

Senior member
Feb 24, 2000
282
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#35
AMDJunkie,

You stated:
3.) Jesus gave the power to the apostles before the Ascension to forgive sins. Priests and bishops are, technically, the successors to the apostles. There for, they have the ability to forgive sins.

Can you give biblical reference for that? Not that I've read the whole book, but I don't ever remember reading anything like that.
 
Jun 30, 2000
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#36
ItC: I agree with a lot of the points you made, which is why I no longer practice that religion. I can't fault those who do, though. To them, the religion clicks. It doesn't with me and I felt like a hypocrate for sitting through mass with those feelings.

There are plenty of members of the church who are decent and good, though and it isn't fair to lump them in with those who aren't (pious III et.al)
 

AMDJunkie

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 1999
3,429
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#37
psuedo: My bad, I had stated &quot;before the Ascension&quot;, it was at the reception of the Holy Spirit (fixed), in which Jesus says to them (John 20:23 NAV), &quot;Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.&quot;
 

MooseKnuckle

Golden Member
Oct 24, 1999
1,392
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#38
Doomer- I'm sure the Catholic priests aren't the only priests in this country who've molested young boys. I would guess, all religions have there misguided leaders.

As a Catholic, I'm saddened by people who bash the Catholic Church. Your religion is a matter of faith, it's what you believe. Most of the &quot;unfaithful&quot; look for hard facts to validate one's religion. Faith is believing in the unknown, not all is backed by solid fact. Most disbelievers tend to say things like, &quot;show me where in the Bible&quot; or &quot;prove it to me&quot;. I'm a Catholic by choice and would never push my beliefs on others or criticize their beliefs.
 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
1,493
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#39
Yeah, I'm a little confused on how that power to forgive got passed on to the Catholic Church. The apostles have it, but where is the reference of this power succeding to the church for eternity. Just curious mind you....

I've always had this idea that I could ask Jesus to forgive my sins by myself. I may be wrong, but I think this is the big difference between Catholics and Protestants.
 

Doomer

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 1999
3,722
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#40
Moose, I intended this thread to be about evil and it turned into a Catholic bashing thread instead. Let me say that the idea represented in my origional post would be equally repugnant no matter what &quot;ism&quot; it represented. The very thought of man's predatory nature mixing with faith makes me want to puke. The sad truth is that most religions exist for the purpose of financial predation. :(
 
Jun 30, 2000
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#41
&quot;The sad truth is that most religions exist for the purpose of financial predation&quot;

Religious organizations do not exist for the puropse of making money. They exist to give people of like beliefs something to belong to and to be a pert of. For many people, the prospect of worshiping outside an organized religion is frightening and very lonely. In fact, most religious people like to worship with others as a community praying together and going through life together. The basis of religion is not money. Yes, there are those few groups who are only about lining their own pockets, and unfortunately they are the loudest and most often heard from. But, they are in no way the majority.
 
Feb 2, 2000
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#42
Wow, I am amazed at the ideas people have in their heads over the Catholic Religion. I do not judge others, or tell them they are going to hell. I do not put others down, or preach to them about what choices they make. I don't defend the Inquisition, or any of the other horrors that have been done. So I do not appreciate people criticizing my beliefs over the mistakes of others. I am a good person, no matter what somebody has done before or will do after me. And I would like to know where you get the idea that Catholicism was started for money. The Catholic religion, along with many other wonderful religions and organizations, do wonderful things and help millions of people.

Red Dawn: I did not put out, and I don't think I have a mustache.... :Q
 

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