Is it true that "towing capacity" standards are different for the same car across countries?

[steppinthrax]

I was reading this article "The great American Towing Conspiracy" discussing how the Toyota Yaris has a much higher towing capacity in UK while in the US it says "not recomended for towing". The only reasoning behind this is because maybe the Yaris in the UK is diesel (but I don't think so)

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c...nti-towing-conspiracy/

Is this true?????

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Yes it is.. Mainly because entirely different engines and transmissions can be used in vehicles. Take for example the difference between the Ford Ranger that's in America with 2.5L I4s, and 3L and 4L V6 gas engines. While the Ford Ranger in Great Britain is available with 2.5L and 3L TDCi diesels and quad cabs. As well as different trim levels available. All this changes what the vehicle can handle.

 

[thomsbrain]

As far as I can tell from TV and from personally spending some time in the UK, people there think it is perfectly ok to tow a modest camper with even the smallest econocar. And frankly, they're right. As long as you don't try to go really fast or overtax the brakes, there is no reason any of the cars sold in America couldn't do the same. You mostly need to watch out for transmission heat and brake heat. Anyone see that video of the S2000 pulling the gigantic boat? I sure wouldn't make a habit of that (think of the wear on the clutch from needing so high to get torque!), but it is something to think about.

 

[dug777]

I've quite happily towed a very large box trailer with my '89 323

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Also note that the highest mountain in the UK is half the height of one of the passes that I-80 goes over in California, and isn't as high as the Tejon pass that I-5 goes over coming out of Los Angeles. Geography does play a factor. The last thing you need is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L9XZwDYwGdY

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: dug777
I've quite happily towed a very large box trailer with my '89 323

I pulled a 19' boat thru the bush near Thunder Bay Ontario, nasty hills, dirt road etc in my '88 Suzuki Samauri with a 1.3L gas engine, and didn't need 4wd, or the low range.

 

[Dman877]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Also note that the highest mountain in the UK is half the height of one of the passes that I-80 goes over in California, and isn't as high as the Tejon pass that I-5 goes over coming out of Los Angeles. Geography does play a factor. The last thing you need is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L9XZwDYwGdY

That video was hilarious.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Also note that the highest mountain in the UK is half the height of one of the passes that I-80 goes over in California, and isn't as high as the Tejon pass that I-5 goes over coming out of Los Angeles. Geography does play a factor. The last thing you need is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L9XZwDYwGdY

That doesn't seem to me to be an entirely logical argument, unless you can demonstrate that the average gradients faced in an average drive in the US are steeper than in the UK (which I highly doubt, anyway).

Just because you've got a couple of high passes doesn't mean the whole country (the vast majority of which have probably, and will probably tow over those passes) needs 11tybillion horseypower SUVs to tow small box trailers

I would have thought a number of your States were so flat they were quite conducive to towing with a go-kart :laugh:

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: dug777
I would have thought a number of your States were so flat they were quite conducive to towing with a go-kart :laugh:

Those are the states which are most likely to buy the massively oversized SUVs.

Granted, they get snow too, but it gets plowed very quickly indeed...

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Also note that the highest mountain in the UK is half the height of one of the passes that I-80 goes over in California, and isn't as high as the Tejon pass that I-5 goes over coming out of Los Angeles. Geography does play a factor. The last thing you need is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L9XZwDYwGdY

That video was hilarious.

I've seen that video a couple of times. It's crazy. I wouldn't even tow anything that big with a car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Some of it has to do with liability; if Joe Schmoe tows a 4,000 lb trailer with his CRV and has an accident because he went too fast or the trailer starts oscillating then chances are he's going to sue Honda. Better to just reduce the claimed towing capacity.

There's also the issue of acceptable towing performance. I can't imagine towing 1,800 pounds with a 70 hp car. There's no way that would be safe at 65 mph on the freeway. If speeds never got over 45 mph, then sure, you can tow with almost anything, but I'm betting that the reduced towing capacities are also at least partially due to the greater percentage of freeway driving in America.

ZV

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There's also the issue of acceptable towing performance. I can't imagine towing 1,800 pounds with a 70 hp car. There's no way that would be safe at 65 mph on the freeway. If speeds never got over 45 mph, then sure, you can tow with almost anything, but I'm betting that the reduced towing capacities are also at least partially due to the greater percentage of freeway driving in America.

ZV

Unsafe due to horsepower? It's the brakes and the weight of the towing vehicle that matter...low horsepower just means that you can't climb hills very well. So you go into the truck lane, put your blinkers on, and slog uphill at 30mph with the commercial traffic.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There's also the issue of acceptable towing performance. I can't imagine towing 1,800 pounds with a 70 hp car. There's no way that would be safe at 65 mph on the freeway. If speeds never got over 45 mph, then sure, you can tow with almost anything, but I'm betting that the reduced towing capacities are also at least partially due to the greater percentage of freeway driving in America.

ZV

Unsafe due to horsepower? It's the brakes and the weight of the towing vehicle that matter...low horsepower just means that you can't climb hills very well. So you go into the truck lane, put your blinkers on, and slog uphill at 30mph with the commercial traffic.

I think it's a combination. But you have to understand a Country like the UK is very small. I don't know how small it is by some of our states (geographically) but they have a fewer stretch of highways then us. But I did notice when searching online it seems to be common that people use these tiny cars to tow loads where if it was done here you car would probably be impounded and/or you would get a ticket.

I was actually taking from the example in that article on how the Toyota Yaris over there has a much higher towing rating then over here. I under the assumption the Yaris here is the same as the Yaris there with the exception of the emmission control systems.

But then it's interesting in the manual of my Camry it says I can tow up to 2K lbs. Of course I won't even try to even come close to that but for them to give that number would make them lible if you did get into an accident due to some factor of the vehicle.....

 

[mooseracing]

Tow ratings are different between manufactures too. There is no set standard yet so each manufacture can claim the best in class towing even though they use different test.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There's also the issue of acceptable towing performance. I can't imagine towing 1,800 pounds with a 70 hp car. There's no way that would be safe at 65 mph on the freeway. If speeds never got over 45 mph, then sure, you can tow with almost anything, but I'm betting that the reduced towing capacities are also at least partially due to the greater percentage of freeway driving in America.

ZV

Unsafe due to horsepower? It's the brakes and the weight of the towing vehicle that matter...low horsepower just means that you can't climb hills very well. So you go into the truck lane, put your blinkers on, and slog uphill at 30mph with the commercial traffic.

Part of safety is being able to accelerate out of trouble. There's a point at which a car is too underpowered to be safe. That's just my opinion though.

ZV

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Part of safety is being able to accelerate out of trouble. There's a point at which a car is too underpowered to be safe. That's just my opinion though.

ZV

I can accelerate out of trouble on my motorcycle. I have yet to drive a car which is able to accelerate out of trouble quickly enough to make much of a difference...and certainly nothing that can do it while towing. (No, I have not driven anything with more than ~250 hp)

In my mind, unless you have enough acceleration to put your entire vehicle a full car-length in front of the space it was previously occupying within a second or two, you're never going to be able to accelerate out of trouble. The loose tire bouncing down the road, guy merging into you, random flying debris that you are trying to avoid etc. will still clip your door, instead of your rear quarter panel, if you aren't able to get your whole vehicle ahead of it in time. Not much better, and certainly not enough to avoid an accident. So...only sports cars need apply. The acceleration performance of average economy cars is so craptastic that they might as well tow...in much the same way that semi tractors aren't going to try and beat people to the merge when they're empty, even though they in theory can accelerate much more quickly now.

Doubling the speed of a turtle does not give you a hare, and halving the speed of a turtle does not significantly compromise its survival abilities. Halving the speed of a hare, on the other hand...

Mind you, I do concede that maybe Average Joe Moron needs the safety cushion of gobs of extra power and braking while towing, since he seems incapable of paying attention to the road and planning ahead. But the semi trucks do fine with dog-slow vehicles.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jagec
Mind you, I do concede that maybe Average Joe Moron needs the safety cushion of gobs of extra power and braking while towing, since he seems incapable of paying attention to the road and planning ahead. But the semi trucks do fine with dog-slow vehicles.

That's pretty much where I was going.

That, and I can't see a 70 hp car handling 180 pounds of tongue weight well.

ZV

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There's also the issue of acceptable towing performance. I can't imagine towing 1,800 pounds with a 70 hp car. There's no way that would be safe at 65 mph on the freeway. If speeds never got over 45 mph, then sure, you can tow with almost anything, but I'm betting that the reduced towing capacities are also at least partially due to the greater percentage of freeway driving in America.

ZV

Unsafe due to horsepower? It's the brakes and the weight of the towing vehicle that matter...low horsepower just means that you can't climb hills very well. So you go into the truck lane, put your blinkers on, and slog uphill at 30mph with the commercial traffic.

Part of safety is being able to accelerate out of trouble. There's a point at which a car is too underpowered to be safe. That's just my opinion though.

ZV

Actually the key points are the frame, brakes, and transmission+axle. They're more concerned about being able to stop the load than get it going. Also, suspension bottoming out leads to frame bending=not good. Typically tongue weights of trailers are about 10% of their load. Even though an M5 has 500HP and 375LBft of torque, how well do you think it'd handle having 1000LBs situated at the far back end? There's a reason why pickups have been historically light in the rear. That's because when they get a load, they suddenly become balanced.

Oh, and sway bars are to keep this from happening:
http://break.com/index/truck-n...y-tips-on-highway.html

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Actually the key points are the frame, brakes, and transmission+axle. They're more concerned about being able to stop the load than get it going. Also, suspension bottoming out leads to frame bending=not good. Typically tongue weights of trailers are about 10% of their load. Even though an M5 has 500HP and 375LBft of torque, how well do you think it'd handle having 1000LBs situated at the far back end? There's a reason why pickups have been historically light in the rear. That's because when they get a load, they suddenly become balanced.

Oh, and sway bars are to keep this from happening:
http://break.com/index/truck-n...y-tips-on-highway.html

All true, but frame, brakes, and transmission/axle tend not to vary significantly in cars like the Yaris between Europe and America. I wasn't so much looking at the main components that went into tow rating, but more at what might lead to differing ratings between the US and other countries. Also, there's my own preferences in there.

ZV