Is it stupid to buy Chevy or American now?

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
This, in economics, would mean that you'd be an irrational buyer and not spending your money wisely

uh, no

yes. when someone is being "patriotic" and only looking to buy american cars and not buying from the entire market, that is considered being an irrational player. and that buyer isn't acting like s smart buyer because he isn't getting the best deal possible.

as stated, buying american right now is not a good idea. the only reason to buy them is if you're feeling "patriotic" and feel bad for american car companies. if you're not, then there are so many other competitors in the market for new cars.

(skoorb) as for buying used cars? what if i'm willing to pay for the new car instead of getting someone else's poorly broken in, driven like an idiot piece of trash?

the reason you can get that price on a used fusion shows american cars' poor resale value. it shows how much YOUR car is worth after just 1 year and not many miles: basically nothing. the corolla seems to hold its value much better in your example.

low resale values = buyer's market for used cars.

let me know of any import that gives 4 doors, 5 seats, 360hp and 390 ft-lbs of torque, and RWD at a reasonable price. oh wait, that's a $25k used 2008 G8 GT.

E39 M5 an outstanding 4 Dr Sedan with 400HP RWD 6-speed manual world renowned performance can be had in the mid and low 20's easily. Yes I know last one was made in 2003. But I bet they are more fun and higher quality purchase of a used car than the G8 for sure.

Additionally, there is always the Audi S4. Sure It's AWD, but it packs a V8 4.2 L 340HP, offers a much higher quality product and costs used about the same as that G8 give or take a small difference.

I'll tell you that I like the G8 as much as the next guy. And I was cheering the day GM announced it. I thought American manufacturers finally saw the dark side of their ways but I was disappointed later.

How many cars like the G8 do American manufacturers churn out? I would like to know.

Which 4 door Sedan do American manufacturers supply people with that has a decent ~30 and up mpg I4 / V6 (better yet I6) with RWD and a 5/6 speed transmission option?


I like the G8. But I don't want a V8, it's just too much, unnecessary excess power that comes at the price of efficiency. Where is my efficient V6 option with a 6-speed manual?? That's what I really want. That's what American companies can make if they knew any better.

Additionally, the use of cheap ass material needs to stop if American manufacturers want to impress buyers more often. The G8 is not immune from this. Sure the price tag is low, but many imports can manage very nice quality for $30k, then why not them?

Additionally, I don't want ole Chevy Big / Small Block engines. What a bore...

I just can't stand how typical these engines are. They give the power....but to me at least, they got old so long ago. SSDD platform sharing and all the crap you can think about.

Stop these generic trends. INNOVATE! I know it's hard for some companies but they need to do that if they want to excite customers. As an Engineer myself I will tell you that what does the job and meets specifications is what I would pick for the job period.

BUT the majority of people, including myself, aren't shopping for utility vehicles to meet numbers. There is much more than meeting numbers and spec to buying a car, there is much much more than just saying it does this and that.

People don't pay BMW $40K for something like a 335i Sedans just because they are Civic killers and meet numbers. Keep that in mind.

What I am saying, GM ought to be able to out do BMW on their own turf (The American Market ehem). What BMW makes for $40k, GM ought to be able to make with same quality and detail but $30K for the American consumer for instance.

A case in point. I like the 3-series and 5-series sedans very very much, I am barely resisting not pulling the trigger on one of those twin-turbo I6 6-speed manual 335i

My problem is, I don't want to lay down $~40K on it, I desire the car, but at this point in my life and with this economy, I don't have the willingness to bite the bullet and throw $40k away. I don't do the whole car payment business, I either put cash on the table or walk away from it, that's how I roll so to speak.

As soon as I found out the G8 doesn't have an efficient 6-cylinder + 5 / 6 speed manual option and that it doesn't deliver the goodies in the interior as it could. I threw the idea of ever getting one out of the window.

Additionally, keep in mind when talking about imports that all the G8 is, nothing but a re-branded import don't forget that. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means if it meets numbers, it doesn't make it a savior. Power + Efficiency isn't everything for everyone,

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Obama has already said all warranties will be honored.

But people who already own a G.M. or Chrysler vehicle are not covered by this program and it also does not cover safety recalls, which can occur years after the warranty expires.

If gm goes under and my warranty goes bye bye this will be the last domestic car i ever buy.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: DVad3r

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Ford is still doing just fine. And even if GM goes into bankruptcy the company itself wont cease functioning, and warranties will certainly continue to be honored.

Who will keep GM functioning?

Bankruptcy structure will probably keep essential pieces going, such as parts and warranty service.

The Obama guaranteed warranties.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I wouldn't buy GM.

I like the Tahoe but GM dealerships are going bankrupt. They are vanishing left and right.
You will have to take your car far far away for service

GM will be closing all the small, less trafficed dealerships...large dealerships with a lot of foot traffic will be around for the long haul. Not to mention there seems to be a Chevy dealership within stones throw throughout most of the US.

 

[StageLeft]

E39 M5 an outstanding 4 Dr Sedan with 400HP RWD 6-speed manual world renowned performance can be had in the mid and low 20's easily. Yes I know last one was made in 2003. But I bet they are more fun and higher quality purchase of a used car than the G8 for sure.

Somebody loves their repair bills! Hell, I can buy a Ferrari for under 20k if I don't care about how much it will keep to cost running.

Additionally, there is always the Audi S4. Sure It's AWD, but it packs a V8 4.2 L 340HP, offers a much higher quality product and costs used about the same as that G8 give or take a small difference.

Old and Audi = maintenance nightmare. That G8 still has a warranty left on it.

Even if we go new, there is no import in the world that sounds as awesome, or will go as awesomely (in a straight line 🙂), as an entry domestic V8 muscle car. If money is no object, of course the best cars in the world generally come from Europe.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: FHDelux
I personally wouldn't buy any ford, sure their quality is advertised good, but their model line up is so <yawn>. They are big, expensive, slow, and handle like pigs (not including the trucks or mustangs). GM might have a bunch of issues right now, but thats because their company is not structured right, I think they have a better model selection then Ford. I wouldn't worry about buying a GM vehicle, just don't think you are going to resell it in a couple of years without losing a ton of money. Only thing wrong with american cars right now is their residual value.

The irony being that the Focus and Fusion probably handle better than the Mustang. The Mustang GT500 was only around two seconds faster than the Mondeo ST220 and Ford Focus RS around the Top Gear test track.

Mustangs handle great as long as it's in a straight line....

I chuckled a bit as well at his comments. He noted that the only two vehicles that handle well in Ford's portfolio are pretty much the only two vehicles that are not at the top of their segment in handling.

The Focus and Fusion handle at the top of their class and the upcoming Fiesta will continue that trend.

 

[rdp6]

Is the Camaro even built in NA? If GM goes down, does Holden, too? I have to say that if I wanted a Camaro, could live with it, and it was within my budget, I'd get one. Everyone goes on and on about how some cars are reliable and others will break as surely as the sun rises in the east. @#$# that, no matter what car you buy it isn't going to be as bad as anyone makes it out to be just because it isn't a Honda. Likewise all things built by mankind will eventually break. Even Hondas.

(Honestly I wonder if all reliability claims are based on owners never performing the tiniest bit of preventative maintenance. If you can't be bothered to change your oil, then get a Honda.)

I drive at least 90 miles every weekday, and have so far have had no serious issues with my 07 Passat (bought new). I really like that car as a family hauler/commuter. There is no way in hell I regret buying it.

That said, it would be pretty sweet if I had room in my budget/priorities for a RWD 300+HP muscle car. Instead I am playing catchup with retirement savings.

Get what you want, do you really want to live with a (whatever some random internet know-it-all) just because it is sensible? There is so much more to life and motoring than being sensible.

As one of those internet know-it-alls I recommend getting the Camaro before they are gone. And drive the ever-loving piss out of it.

 

[FerraraZ]

Alot of great knowledge being dropped in this thread.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
That's just the thing I'm trying to get through LOIUSSSSS's bigoted skull, there's no blanket way of saying IMPORT > DOMESTIC one way or the other. Everyone has different wants and needs, and there's no 'one size fits all' to cars, thank god.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: rdp6
Is the Camaro even built in NA? If GM goes down, does Holden, too? I have to say that if I wanted a Camaro, could live with it, and it was within my budget, I'd get one. Everyone goes on and on about how some cars are reliable and others will break as surely as the sun rises in the east. @#$# that, no matter what car you buy it isn't going to be as bad as anyone makes it out to be just because it isn't a Honda. Likewise all things built by mankind will eventually break. Even Hondas.

Yes.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

yea i guess you're right; everyone has different wants and needs. if you want cheap quality, cheap $$, "i am american look at my car", straight line speed (only on sporty cars), then buy american.

if you want overall package, published award winners over the long run (CD 10 Best), the ability to turn your car while going fast also, and your car to be worth something (just like you'd want your house to be worth something) in a few years then get foreign.

(skoob) yes, lol at everyone who buys a new car is insanely rich and has too much money to spend. or we can look at it as: those who buy 2nd hand and used cars are too damn poor to buy a new car. same equality. Maybe it matters to me whos used my car before i buy it (i like my cars like my women: undriven) maybe they fucked it up beforehand, maybe they rode it like there was no tomorrow, maybe it has a problem that got a temp fix, maybe i just dont want someone else's garbage? you want mine? i'll sell you my 05 accord for $16k (as per kbb)

and no, i did not buy my accord used. got it brand new with 3 miles on the odo from the dealer. got it for 25k after taxes (EX v6 navi leather + rubber floor mats, trunk tray, window visors, + some other crap i forgot)

yea i guess if you're too poor (as skoorb put it) to buy new, buy a used car.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
yea i guess you're right; everyone has different wants and needs. if you want cheap quality, cheap $$, "i am american look at my car", straight line speed (only on sporty cars), then buy american.

if you want overall package, published award winners over the long run (CD 10 Best), the ability to turn your car while going fast also, and your car to be worth something (just like you'd want your house to be worth something) in a few years then get foreign.

(skoob) yes, lol at everyone who buys a new car is insanely rich and has too much money to spend. or we can look at it as: those who buy 2nd hand and used cars are too damn poor to buy a new car. same equality. Maybe it matters to me whos used my car before i buy it (i like my cars like my women: undriven) maybe they fucked it up beforehand, maybe they rode it like there was no tomorrow, maybe it has a problem that got a temp fix, maybe i just dont want someone else's garbage? you want mine? i'll sell you my 05 accord for $16k (as per kbb)

and no, i did not buy my accord used. got it brand new with 3 miles on the odo from the dealer. got it for 25k after taxes (EX v6 navi leather + rubber floor mats, trunk tray, window visors, + some other crap i forgot)

yea i guess if you're too poor (as skoorb put it) to buy new, buy a used car.

funny, because american vehicles possess some of the top nurburgring times.

Viper ACR (7:22 - fastest porduction vehicle)
Corvette ZR1 (7:26)
Cadillac CTS-V (7:59 - fastest production sedan)

quit bullshitting, louissssss. some people actually LIKE the way a mustang, camaro, CTS, or corvette look and drive. just because they own an american car doesn't mean they bought it to say "hey, i'm patriotic and buy american"

you could just as easily say "hey, i pissed all my money down the drain and bought a high priced german vehicle, which has a horrible reputation for reliability, but it's still cool because it's obviously better than everything else. the germans make the good stuff </shamwow>"

or

"hey look at me, i drive a toyota or honda, which must make me an intelligent buyer since i clearly purchased with statistical reliability in mind. i would *never* buy a german car *scoff*"

and why is buying used a bad idea? a $25k G8 GT will stomp the shit out of your accord in every manner possible, is still under warranty, and will have < 10k miles on the odo when you pick it up.

some people like what GM/Ford/Chrysler have to offer. some people like what MB, Audi, and BMW have to offer. and some people (you obviously) like what Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have to offer.

nothing wrong with any of the choices as long as they are made in an informed manner. for the love of god though, stop with the fanboyism

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
(skoob) yes, lol at everyone who buys a new car is insanely rich and has too much money to spend. or we can look at it as: those who buy 2nd hand and used cars are too damn poor to buy a new car. same equality. Maybe it matters to me whos used my car before i buy it (i like my cars like my women: undriven) maybe they fucked it up beforehand, maybe they rode it like there was no tomorrow, maybe it has a problem that got a temp fix, maybe i just dont want someone else's garbage? you want mine? i'll sell you my 05 accord for $16k (as per kbb)

Sure... Somehow I don't think you even get to a test drive.

And not everybody that drives used is poor. I know multiple people that are literally worth millions that buy used. Want to know why? Because they don't want to be the one paying for the depreciation. Even cars with a high resale value lose thousands as soon as they are no longer new. In 3 years you've lost at least $9k in value for your car and you yourself think that's GOOD. And that's if you can even find some idiot that actually will pay blue book. Blue book is a joke and anyone who actually pays that much for a car is a few cards short of a deck.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
and why is buying used a bad idea? a $25k G8 GT will stomp the shit out of your accord in every manner possible, is still under warranty, and will have < 10k miles on the odo when you pick it up.

except in value, reliability (accords have engines that regularly go 300k+ miles and last for 20 years) wheres the 1980's GM family sedans?

well you're putting your 25k used vehicle with no prior accident/ usage history against my $16k (kbb value) accord. how about against a 2005 malibu? hmm a little bit more of an even matchup.

oh wait: just did a KBB checkup on a 2005 malibu v6, its only worth $7000 with 60k miles on it

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
(skoob) yes, lol at everyone who buys a new car is insanely rich and has too much money to spend. or we can look at it as: those who buy 2nd hand and used cars are too damn poor to buy a new car. same equality. Maybe it matters to me whos used my car before i buy it (i like my cars like my women: undriven) maybe they fucked it up beforehand, maybe they rode it like there was no tomorrow, maybe it has a problem that got a temp fix, maybe i just dont want someone else's garbage? you want mine? i'll sell you my 05 accord for $16k (as per kbb)

Sure... Somehow I don't think you even get to a test drive.

And not everybody that drives used is poor. I know multiple people that are literally worth millions that buy used. Want to know why? Because they don't want to be the one paying for the depreciation. Even cars with a high resale value lose thousands as soon as they are no longer new. In 3 years you've lost at least $9k in value for your car and you yourself think that's GOOD. And that's if you can even find some idiot that actually will pay blue book. Blue book is a joke and anyone who actually pays that much for a car is a few cards short of a deck.

i was just using that comparison because skoorb said everyone who buys new is filthy rich. but i said i disagree, it might just be that everyone who buys used are poor.

yes my 2005 accord, after 4* (get your math straight 2009-2005 =4) years only lost 9k in value. whereas a 2005 chevy malibu loses about 15k of value after 4 years. (i didn't say is worth 15k, i said loses about 15k in value). yes, i like that my car is worth than anything that was competing against it in 2005 when i got it new.

maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
except in value, reliability (accords have engines that regularly go 300k+ miles and last for 20 years) wheres the 1980's GM family sedans?

well you're putting your 25k used vehicle with no prior accident/ usage history against my $16k (kbb value) accord. how about against a 2005 malibu? hmm a little bit more of an even matchup.

oh wait: just did a KBB checkup on a 2005 malibu v6, its only worth $7000 with 60k miles on it

And that 2005 malibu is a much better deal. It costs less than half and even with your pessimistic outlook on cars not made by Honda that's a huge amount of money to put towards repairs. Heck, you could buy 2.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

I also already gave some advice farther up in the thread.

I don't follow you around. I just frequent this forum. Most people here already know you're a troll. I probably should just ignore your posts. However I have a low tolerance for people not being rational.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

I also already gave some advice farther up in the thread.

I don't follow you around. I just frequent this forum. Most people here already know you're a troll. I probably should just ignore your posts. However I have a low tolerance for people not being rational.

please ignore me then.

btw, no that doesn't make the malibu a better buy. you always get what you pay for. when u buy that $7k malibu, you get $7k worth of car, when u buy that $16k accord, you buy $16k worth of car.

just like your house, when u buy a house, do you want it to depreciate like crazy? or do you want the value of your home to be worth something. same thing when buying a car.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

I also already gave some advice farther up in the thread.

I don't follow you around. I just frequent this forum. Most people here already know you're a troll. I probably should just ignore your posts. However I have a low tolerance for people not being rational.

please ignore me then.

btw, no that doesn't make the malibu a better buy. you always get what you pay for. when u buy that $7k malibu, you get $7k worth of car, when u buy that $16k accord, you buy $16k worth of car.

just like your house, when u buy a house, do you want it to depreciate like crazy? or do you want the value of your home to be worth something. same thing when buying a car.

A house is a hugely different asset than a car, stop attempting to compare them as such.

I really like how as soon as someone pointed out that multiple American cars are class leaders in nurburgring times, you drop your unfounded argument about how American cars are only fast in a straight line and immediately attack whatever other aspects haven't been disproven recently.

NO ONE that is actually an 'informed buyer' will ever share your same hatred of American cars. It's plainly obvious you fuel your arguments with emotion rather than logic and facts. Please do yourself as well as everyone else here a favor and stay out of REAL informed discussion of cars. Stop abusing your internet anonymitity; it does NOT give you a license to be a complete, bigoted asshole.

 

[postmortemIA]

buying american cars makes only sense if you do not plan to trade it ever. if you do, then it is terrible value/investment for your money. every year when big 3 announce great deals value of used american cars goes down.
it is like this. with malibu you pay less at start, but you instantly lose big portion of what you have paid and every year depreciation hits you. you can't change your mind and sell it in year or five without huge penalty.
with toyohonda, you pay more in start (or don't if you finance it) but at any time it is more worth than malibu and you can trade it with relatively small hit.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: XabanakFanatik

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

I also already gave some advice farther up in the thread.

I don't follow you around. I just frequent this forum. Most people here already know you're a troll. I probably should just ignore your posts. However I have a low tolerance for people not being rational.

please ignore me then.

btw, no that doesn't make the malibu a better buy. you always get what you pay for. when u buy that $7k malibu, you get $7k worth of car, when u buy that $16k accord, you buy $16k worth of car.

just like your house, when u buy a house, do you want it to depreciate like crazy? or do you want the value of your home to be worth something. same thing when buying a car.

A house is a hugely different asset than a car, stop attempting to compare them as such.

I really like how as soon as someone pointed out that multiple American cars are class leaders in nurburgring times, you drop your unfounded argument about how American cars are only fast in a straight line and immediately attack whatever other aspects haven't been disproven recently.

NO ONE that is actually an 'informed buyer' will ever share your same hatred of American cars. It's plainly obvious you fuel your arguments with emotion rather than logic and facts. Please do yourself as well as everyone else here a favor and stay out of REAL informed discussion of cars. Stop abusing your internet anonymitity; it does NOT give you a license to be a complete, bigoted asshole.

there is no hatred towards american cars. i hate all bad cars equally. you didn't get the memo that Gm has been making bad cars for the past 10 years or so? with their gas guzzling huge suvs. Gm also failed to predict the market of the upcoming years. they also failed to have any innovative technology until they realized they had no money and was nearly bankrupt.

okay, buying a house is way too different than buying a car. since we're in a tech forum: lets buy a PC!
lets have 2 PCs. a GM PC and a Honda PC. they both perform equally on day 1 and cost $1000 to buy on day 1. on day 10 GM PC is worth $200 and Honda PC is worth $600. Which PC would you have rather purchased on day 1? assuming you can only buy those 2 PCs.

now xbanak, if you dont have anymore help for the OP please stop derailing the thread. he's asking why he should buy an american car when there are so many other (some better) options on the market. have an answer for him? probably not, noob

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

The Camaro is a fantastic looking car that performs quite well given its weight. Very respectable straight line and nurburging performance. With all the positive reviews, it's hard to find a reason to get something else, especially if the Camaro is calling your name. Although I would probably wait until the 2011 model is out, for any kinks to be ironed out.

GM isn't going anywhere, with all the major (government mandated) restructuring they'll most likely continue receiving government funding and/or get financially straightened out. With all the GOOD car's they've been finally coming out with, It's hard to imagine them dying out. (Unless we have too many people like LOUISSSSS)

 

[FerraraZ]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: XabanakFanatik

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
maybe you should stop following me around and make some of your own informed suggestions to the OP. he wants to know how chevy (aka gm, aka "american cars") are doing.

I also already gave some advice farther up in the thread.

I don't follow you around. I just frequent this forum. Most people here already know you're a troll. I probably should just ignore your posts. However I have a low tolerance for people not being rational.

please ignore me then.

btw, no that doesn't make the malibu a better buy. you always get what you pay for. when u buy that $7k malibu, you get $7k worth of car, when u buy that $16k accord, you buy $16k worth of car.

just like your house, when u buy a house, do you want it to depreciate like crazy? or do you want the value of your home to be worth something. same thing when buying a car.

A house is a hugely different asset than a car, stop attempting to compare them as such.

I really like how as soon as someone pointed out that multiple American cars are class leaders in nurburgring times, you drop your unfounded argument about how American cars are only fast in a straight line and immediately attack whatever other aspects haven't been disproven recently.

NO ONE that is actually an 'informed buyer' will ever share your same hatred of American cars. It's plainly obvious you fuel your arguments with emotion rather than logic and facts. Please do yourself as well as everyone else here a favor and stay out of REAL informed discussion of cars. Stop abusing your internet anonymitity; it does NOT give you a license to be a complete, bigoted asshole.

there is no hatred towards american cars. i hate all bad cars equally. you didn't get the memo that Gm has been making bad cars for the past 10 years or so? with their gas guzzling huge suvs. Gm also failed to predict the market of the upcoming years. they also failed to have any innovative technology until they realized they had no money and was nearly bankrupt.

okay, buying a house is way too different than buying a car. since we're in a tech forum: lets buy a PC!
lets have 2 PCs. a GM PC and a Honda PC. they both perform equally on day 1 and cost $1000 to buy on day 1. on day 10 GM PC is worth $200 and Honda PC is worth $600. Which PC would you have rather purchased on day 1? assuming you can only buy those 2 PCs.

now xbanak, if you dont have anymore help for the OP please stop derailing the thread. he's asking why he should buy an american car when there are so many other (some better) options on the market. have an answer for him? probably not, noob

To play devil's advocate we are not talking about their SUV's. Your statement about gas guzzling cars do not apply to their car line up. From what I've read most of their cars emissions are right there with the top Japanesse auto makers.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

to skip the endless quoting^^

well you're talking about the camaro. that isn't exact gas efficient also. it is, in itself considered a "gas-guzzler" by today's standards of hybrids and high efficiency sedans. GM was planning this vehicle for so many years before their whole bailout shit. Why couldn't they predict the market better and instead of throwing billions in r&d for the camaro, come out with a 2010 high efficiency compact sports car (think s2000, solstice, miata sized) with mpg ratings in the 40-50's. but NO! GM failed to predict the market and think that everyone would want to buy the camaro when in fact, the people & the government said YOU FAILED and START MAKING MORE FUEL EFFICIENT VEHICLES. now, billions down the drain in research and hoping that they'd make it all back with a guzzling camero is a dream that is about to be shattered.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
to skip the endless quoting^^

well you're talking about the camaro. that isn't exact gas efficient also. it is, in itself considered a "gas-guzzler" by today's standards of hybrids and high efficiency sedans. GM was planning this vehicle for so many years before their whole bailout shit. Why couldn't they predict the market better and instead of throwing billions in r&d for the camaro, come out with a 2010 high efficiency compact sports car (think s2000, solstice, miata sized) with mpg ratings in the 40-50's. but NO! GM failed to predict the market and think that everyone would want to buy the camaro when in fact, the people & the government said YOU FAILED and START MAKING MORE FUEL EFFICIENT VEHICLES. now, billions down the drain in research and hoping that they'd make it all back with a guzzling camero is a dream that is about to be shattered.

Your argument is that they didn't predict the market by not making a small sports car? What's the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky then?

Oh, and I hate to break it to you, GM didn't spend that much on the Camaro. It's based off of a Holden (GM Australia) and uses either their mass-produced V6 with DI (increased fuel efficiency and power, which actually returns the same mpg as the v6 Accord) or their LS3, which is in around a half dozen other cars and gets around 20mpg combined.

And going with the "GM didn't predict the market," let's go with the Cruze. In other threads you've done your usual crapping on GM. Well, the Cruze is on a brand new platform (these cost billions and take years). GM spent a lot on it so that they will have a truly global car, which has gotten good reviews so far.