Is it safe to say that 9 out of 10 problems in a computer are caused by...

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: InlineFive

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
A new user hooks up his computer and after only 20 minutes it's already infected by viruses and worms that the operating system allowed to be installed. I'd have to blame the operating system, or the computer vendor that sells it.

If the user knew enough to lock the computer down and install security software before connecting to the internet there wouldn't be an issue.

So the problem goes back to PEBKAC.

OK. So let's say a user has a completely blank PC, and an installation disc containing Windows XP (original edition). He also has a modem (USB DSL modem provided by his ISP).

He can install XP. No probs. He installs the modem, and connects to the internet.
Being familiar with good practice, the first thing he does is go to Windows Update, to get the updates.

Except there's a problem. Even before he is able to download the first update - his PC is already pwned by at least 3 worms.

You can do everything right - but a 'standard' system cannot be used the way it was intended to be because it is too insecure. The only way around this is to use additional hardware, or software (i.e. firewall and anti-malware). The 'standard' package from Microsoft, or from some ISPs may not include such software/hardware.

 

[jazzboy]

He can install XP. No probs. He installs the modem, and connects to the internet.
Being familiar with good practice, the first thing he does is go to Windows Update, to get the updates.

Except there's a problem. Even before he is able to download the first update - his PC is already pwned by at least 3 worms.

That's only the case for XP before SP2 and when setting up the interenet, the user didn't select the firewall option.

I'd say that end users are the cause of most problems, but don't go blaming Microsoft for that -especially not XP SP2 and Vista. A good solution perhaps could be a requirement for all computer manufacturers to include an internet/security safety guide or something like that.

 

[BladeVenom]

Aren't most copies of XP pre service pack 2? The firewall in those versions of XP came turned off.

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: stash
There's only so much the software can do in the face of Dancing Pigs. Users will do whatever it takes to see Dancing Pigs.

linky?!?!?!?!!11!11!

THIS IS A VIRUS - NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT THE PIGS DONT CLICK HERE UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT THE PIGS

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: Seeruk

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: stash
There's only so much the software can do in the face of Dancing Pigs. Users will do whatever it takes to see Dancing Pigs.

linky?!?!?!?!!11!11!

THIS IS A VIRUS - NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT THE PIGS DONT CLICK HERE UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT THE PIGS

BAT files are extremely simple, although I don't doubt what it does I don't think it can be considered a virus.

 

[Nothinman]

BAT files are extremely simple, although I don't doubt what it does I don't think it can be considered a virus.

It's a joke, the domain in the link doesn't even exist. And batch files could be used to create a virus, it would take a good bit of work but whether something is a virus or not isn't determined by the language used.

 

[Seeruk]

Just pointing out that users who have a virtual carrott dangled in front of their nose (read as porn, dancing pigs, or some dancing baby screensaver) will jump through as many hoops and click on as many dodgy looking links as it takes. Thus (in windows) viruses these days are 99% the user's fault. I have run no AV and only a NAT as a firewall for about the last 6 years and have contracted the grand total of zero.

A bat file in itself is not a virus of course, but a damn easy way to install a few in one fell swoop on the 95% of the computer using world who are not technically minded.

We did it as part of an awareness course for users on an isolated training PC last year. Every one of them clicked the link (which pointed to a bat that installed a couple of trojans and a keylogger) entitled and linked simarly to the one above.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: jazzboy

He can install XP. No probs. He installs the modem, and connects to the internet.
Being familiar with good practice, the first thing he does is go to Windows Update, to get the updates.

Except there's a problem. Even before he is able to download the first update - his PC is already pwned by at least 3 worms.

That's only the case for XP before SP2 and when setting up the interenet, the user didn't select the firewall option.

Uh... before SP2, there was no firewall option. At least not in a default installation.

A reasonable user that knows enough to not engage in 'risky' behavior might not know that an unpatched WinXP can be infected silently -- and very quickly -- after connecting to the net. That kind of thing is shoddy OS design, no question.

But a LOT of problems are caused by user error. If there's a way for somebody to screw something up, they'll probably find it.

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: stash
There's only so much the software can do in the face of Dancing Pigs. Users will do whatever it takes to see Dancing Pigs.

That is the best way I have ever sen to describe the people I used to do tech support for. They had this unstoppable need for crazy backgrounds and screen savers 99% of which came packaged with spyware courtesy of the ever changing Gator/Gain/Newest Name They Changed To.

 

[stash]

Uh... before SP2, there was no firewall option. At least not in a default installation.

There was TCP/IP filtering. Ok, stop laughing

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: InlineFive

Originally posted by: Seeruk

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: stash
There's only so much the software can do in the face of Dancing Pigs. Users will do whatever it takes to see Dancing Pigs.

linky?!?!?!?!!11!11!

THIS IS A VIRUS - NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT THE PIGS DONT CLICK HERE UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT THE PIGS

BAT files are extremely simple, although I don't doubt what it does I don't think it can be considered a virus.

Dancing Pigs, here I come....

 

[Brazen]

Around here, I would say it's more like 9 out of 10 problems are caused incompetent IT techs.

 

[Genx87]

It is hard to say really, a bad driver can make any OS shat itself without any user input at all. I typically except for the most extreme cases find it is a bad driver or bad hardware before a bad user. And I have seen many bad users, trust me. A VP had over 20,000 items and 17 processes found on his laptop one time. I could barely launch ad-aware because so many advertisements and popups were comign at me.

But that is the rare case imo.