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Is it reasonable for a salaried professional

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I'm not a contractor, nor do I work for a consulting or contracting firm. We also do not bill other departments for the work we do except on the rare occasion that we actually do programming for another location, which I haven't done yet in the 4 years I've been here. I do development for internal applications and systems that support our manufacturing facility.
 
Here is an example of what I would have had to log for today:

9:00 - 9:10 read and responded to emails
9:10 - 9:20 made several phone calls
9:20 - 9:50 reviewed code and compiled new version of app
9:50 - 11:00 troubleshooting of issue that came up a couple days ago
11:00 - 11:45 installed wireless server and virtual client on tester's computer for testing new version of one of our apps
11:45-12:45 lunch
12:45 - 1:00 weekly status meeting
1:00 - 2:00 department meeting
2:00 - 3:00 taking screenshots and writing documentation for app changes
etc.
etc.
etc.

EDIT: Actually, I forgot a couple other tasks. I spent some time on the web trying to find an answer to a missing reference issue in VB.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
It's entirely reasonable, especially if you are a contractor. Not only does it keep you charging to the correct projects if you are on multiple projects (why should project A pay for you to work on project B?), but companies use the previous years' data to calculate projections for the next year. Helps them to bid accurately on upcoming projects. This is the way pretty much most government contracts work, you report actual hours worked every month and compare that to planned hours to give an indication of how close you are to meeting your schedule.

Or maybe you're a janitor. In that case, it doesn't matter.
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Exactly
If you work for a DoD contractor you have to do this kind of time accounting, and they will occasionally audit you for compliance, including walking the halls and quizzing people on their knowledge of your companies time keeping policies. I got stopped by one once while in a Lockheed facility (I don't/didn't work for them) and I was sorely tempted to screw with them 😛
 
your log should look like this

2:00 - 2:05 pm did work

2:05-2:07: updated log to say did work

2:07-2:12 continued doing work

2:12-14: updated log to say "continued doing work"

and fill out like a 30 page log by the end of the day

maybe he will get the hint

maybe you can add:

2:15 to 2:25 monster dump , used half a roll of toilet paper, overflowed the toilet etc.
 
I wouldn't like doing it, but it is good business practice.

Do they have a time code for surfing ATOT?
 
Originally posted by: mchammer187
your log should look like this

2:00 - 2:05 pm did work

2:05-2:07: updated log to say did work

2:07-2:12 continued doing work

2:12-14: updated log to say "continued doing work"

and fill out like a 30 page log by the end of the day

maybe he will get the hint

maybe you can add:

2:15 to 2:25 monster dump , used half a roll of toilet paper, overflowed the toilet etc.
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Trust me, I've considered it. But that kind of behavior probably wouldn't help the whole "I'm a professional" argument.

The funny thing is that he's now on this big kick about moving to "Agile Development" (which he had never heard of until I mentioned it a few weeks ago), being more flexible, and reducing the amount of red tape and documentation we have to go through so we can deliver software faster.

Like I said, I can understand wanting to know how many hours we spend on large projects, or even smaller ones, but I don't see the value in logging every fricking minute of our day. Since we've recently gone from 5 developers to 3, a lot of our time is spent doing troubleshooting and minor changes to existing software. I don't see the point in having to write down every phone call I take and every 10 minute discussion I have with our tech support guys.

Again, we don't bill anyone, we don't do external contracting, we aren't a federal agency, etc., etc., etc. The only valid reason I can see for this is to keep track of what we are doing.
 
Detailed logging of work is normal. It can be a waste of time, but it's a jewel for project management. The only way you can determine how long some task in a project will take is if you use previous data (and typical forecasting, of course).

I think it's a great idea. It takes a little more time, but it also gives you insight on your tasks and perhaps even makes it easier to assign priorities.
 
Originally posted by: Wonderful Pork
I have to log each different task I do during the day down to the 1/10th of an hour. Thats right, every 6 minutes must be accounted for.
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Me too, it sucks
 
no not at all.

It is and has been the current trend for years. It called micromanagement.

the big thing now is "resource management" so one can pull up a report and see that a worker is 300% over utilized and then simply say "sure, according to the report he can do the 40 hour task just fine for your project just fine. Wanna grab that martini during lunch?"

mmmm...resource management.

-edit- what I mean is you can't do proper project management without detailed tracking of human capital.
 
If they are going to treat you like hourly employees, the law says they have to PAY you like hourly employees
 
Originally posted by: sygyzy
Yes. I do every day along with my 150k coworkers.
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Do we work at the same company?

Where I work we have different charge numbers so we charge the customer correctly.
 
Originally posted by: Gravity
If they are going to treat you like hourly employees, the law says they have to PAY you like hourly employees
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There are other places to work Mr. "you are my resource and I will you what to do"
 
I am forced to clock in and clock out and I am a salaried professional. (Mechanical engineer with a masters degree in engineering.)
If I am 5 minutes late, my manager gets notified. I do not get overtime and they do not care if I work late. If I come in at 8:05 and leave at 5:05 they still say I was late that day.

Therefore, I leave exactly when my 8 hours is up.
 
Originally posted by: radioouman
I am forced to clock in and clock out and I am a salaried professional. (Mechanical engineer with a masters degree in engineering.)
If I am 5 minutes late, my manager gets notified. I do not get overtime and they do not care if I work late. If I come in at 8:05 and leave at 5:05 they still say I was late that day.

Therefore, I leave exactly when my 8 hours is up.
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Wow - that sucks. What industry? I'm guessing automotive?
My work environment is alot less structured (Aerospace engineer with M.S.). I pretty much set my own hours within reason. No time clock. But I do have to log hours worked to various projects.
 
Originally posted by: Wonderful Pork
I have to log each different task I do during the day down to the 1/10th of an hour. Thats right, every 6 minutes must be accounted for.
Click to expand...

We bill in 15 min increments. When your billable rate is $100+ clients don't like paying for time that you weren't working for them. On top of that I have to incrementalize my time daily so that the Project Manager can track hours against the budget to ensure we don't run over.
 
Originally posted by: DT4K
Our newly "lead" developer is asking us to fill out a log with start and stop times, category of work, department, and description for each task we work on throughout the day.

I think it is a waste of time, a pain in the butt, and far too parental feeling.

What do you think?
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This is normal. It's used for esitmating sceduale and cost. I suppose it ccan also be used to figure out if you need another person specializing in area XYZ. It's common in industry.

You'll get used to it and you might even find more of a sense of accomplishment in time due to it.

 
Originally posted by: radioouman
I am forced to clock in and clock out and I am a salaried professional. (Mechanical engineer with a masters degree in engineering.)
If I am 5 minutes late, my manager gets notified. I do not get overtime and they do not care if I work late. If I come in at 8:05 and leave at 5:05 they still say I was late that day.

Therefore, I leave exactly when my 8 hours is up.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't work somewhere like that. Honestly. I had an offer recently for $3 more an hour with less chance of being laid off and I partially turned it down because I wouldn't be able to wear jeans to work and I would have to show up on time (at least till I proved myself). I'm not big on rules like that, I get the job done and if they want to nit pick something stupid like my wardrobe or if I'm 10 minutes late they can take a flying leap.
 
Originally posted by: DT4K
Originally posted by: gopunk
most lawyers at large law firms do
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Sure, but we don't bill by the hour. I can understand wanting to know how many hours were spent doing development on certain projects. I can see that potentially helping in future time estimates. But even for that, each project is so unique that I doubt how much value that would have. I just feel that as a salaried professional who isn't paid by the hour, I shouldn't have to log every single thing I do throughout the day. He wants us to put in entries for the time we spend checking our email, time spent in informal discussions, time spent in meetings, time spent doing design work, coding, troubleshooting, etc. Pretty much everything we do every day.

Technically, he is NOT my supervisor, although I'm not sure he understands that. The reason he was made a "lead" dev is because he is more of a take charge person who likes to be involved in all the decisions about everything. It's good to have someone who is responsible for looking at all our development requests and setting priorities and such, but technically, he is no more skilled than I am and actually less educated in computer science. In fact, his degree is not even in CS.

The question is how do I argue against this without it sounding like I'm just trying to be a slacker?
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Oh my god, that sounds like my company. Who are you? Bwa hahahaahhahaah

See my previous post. A good software department keeps track of this crap. if not, you'll bid $500K for a project that costs $900K and it will be 6 months late. Metrics are simply more important than knowing how to dcode in teh real world. Sorry, but it is true. welcome to software enginering!
 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: radioouman
I am forced to clock in and clock out and I am a salaried professional. (Mechanical engineer with a masters degree in engineering.)
If I am 5 minutes late, my manager gets notified. I do not get overtime and they do not care if I work late. If I come in at 8:05 and leave at 5:05 they still say I was late that day.

Therefore, I leave exactly when my 8 hours is up.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't work somewhere like that. Honestly. I had an offer recently for $3 more an hour with less chance of being laid off and I partially turned it down because I wouldn't be able to wear jeans to work and I would have to show up on time (at least till I proved myself). I'm not big on rules like that, I get the job done and if they want to nit pick something stupid like my wardrobe or if I'm 10 minutes late they can take a flying leap.
Click to expand...


Oh, I have to wear a white Cintas/Aramark uniform too.
Yes, I work in automotive. I was on vacation last week, and I was asked while on vacation to fly out of where I was vacationing to go to the other side of the world for a business trip. I told them to go f*ck themselves.
 
Originally posted by: radioouman
Oh, I have to wear a white Cintas/Aramark uniform too.
Yes, I work in automotive. I was on vacation last week, and I was asked while on vacation to fly out of where I was vacationing to go to the other side of the world for a business trip. I told them to go f*ck themselves.
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Now now, be honest, you politely told them it wouldn't work with your schedule, but what you really wanted to say was go fvck yourself. 😉
 
now, now...we can't manage what we can't measure.

don't worry resources, it will all be OK.

"dance my minions, dance!!!"
 
Originally posted by: Wonderful Pork
I have to log each different task I do during the day down to the 1/10th of an hour. Thats right, every 6 minutes must be accounted for.
Click to expand...

Same here, though it's still pretty loose. I usually just block out my time by even half hours and stay disciplined about focusing on the task at hand.
 
Originally posted by: Armitage
Wow - that sucks. What industry? I'm guessing automotive?
My work environment is alot less structured (Aerospace engineer with M.S.). I pretty much set my own hours within reason. No time clock. But I do have to log hours worked to various projects.
Click to expand...

Yep, me as well. I can come in when I want and leave when I want, but the work has to be done and allocated correctly to different charge codes.
 
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