What party would that be? I just have a hard time aligning to one party. I would feel like such a sheep doing that. What would you call someone that was anti-welfare, anti-war, and pro choice? The point I'm trying to get at is why are people so gung ho on political parties. Can't someone have individual ideas instead of saying everything that Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore do? It's pretty pathetic when all threads on this board turn into democrat vs republican when they are nearly the same party.
Is it possible to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
- Start date
Listen spudnut. I AM liberal, yet vote Republican. On the big issues, such as taxation, crime and less government programs, they're on the right track. I'd like to see marijuana, prostitution and gambling legalized, but that's not such a big deal to me. You gotta look at the big picture first, then worry about this piddly crap when everything else is in order.
Hey fvckhead! If I'm for legalized prostitution, legalization of marijuana and legalized gambling among other things, that puts me square in the liberal camp. If you consider libertarians "liberal", I'm at least 90% behind their platform.
There is an awful lot of confusion because of the different definitions people use.
Take "fiscal conservative"
To me this means reducing the debt to a managable size and then roughly matching government revenues with government spending to keep the debt at a minimum. I'm in favor of this and I consider myself fiscally conservative.
Other people would define it as keeping taxes as low as possible and cutting spending across the board.
My understanding of "liberal" is basically a belief that the govenment is a useful way to achieve certain things that benefit a society and it's citizens. Except for extremists pretty much all Americans are actually liberal even though a lot of them don't know it or admit it.
Take "fiscal conservative"
To me this means reducing the debt to a managable size and then roughly matching government revenues with government spending to keep the debt at a minimum. I'm in favor of this and I consider myself fiscally conservative.
Other people would define it as keeping taxes as low as possible and cutting spending across the board.
My understanding of "liberal" is basically a belief that the govenment is a useful way to achieve certain things that benefit a society and it's citizens. Except for extremists pretty much all Americans are actually liberal even though a lot of them don't know it or admit it.
What does "fiscally concervative" mean?
Does it mean the typical Conservative's point of view on fiscal policy, such as cutting taxes and borrowing money to run the government?
Or does it mean being conservative about our country's fiscal well being, paying as we go and not taking chances on huge taxcuts well into the future?
Does it mean the typical Conservative's point of view on fiscal policy, such as cutting taxes and borrowing money to run the government?
Or does it mean being conservative about our country's fiscal well being, paying as we go and not taking chances on huge taxcuts well into the future?
liberal
Fiscal Conservatives, IMO, are anti big government and bureaucracy. Is it a given that tax cuts automatically mean lower revenues? I believe that once the market picks up, the budget will be easily balanced.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
Fiscal Conservatives, IMO, are anti big government and bureaucracy. Is it a given that tax cuts automatically mean lower revenues? I believe that once the market picks up, the budget will be easily balanced.
People like to label things.
It's nice if everything fits into a nice square box.
Life is less confusing this way.
Be very afraid of people who willingly lump themselves into a narrow group.
I do firmly believe that the majority of americans are not extreme right or left wing kooks, but are somewhere in the middle.
I have liberal views, I have conservative views. I assume most people have similar feelings. It's too bad the word "liberal" has taken on such a negative meaning. Being liberal isn't bad. It doesn't mean that you're soft on crime, or that you cry evertime a bug hits your car's windshield. I guess "conservative" means nazi racist to a lot of people too. Oh well.....
It's nice if everything fits into a nice square box.
Life is less confusing this way.
Be very afraid of people who willingly lump themselves into a narrow group.
I do firmly believe that the majority of americans are not extreme right or left wing kooks, but are somewhere in the middle.
I have liberal views, I have conservative views. I assume most people have similar feelings. It's too bad the word "liberal" has taken on such a negative meaning. Being liberal isn't bad. It doesn't mean that you're soft on crime, or that you cry evertime a bug hits your car's windshield. I guess "conservative" means nazi racist to a lot of people too. Oh well.....
I do too. And I suspect voter turn out is so dismal because the Republicans are too busy playing Anti-Democrats and vice versa that these people don't see either one as protecting their interests.
I consider myself a fiscal conservative, social liberal. In other words, I want responsible leadership and taxation for proper government neccisities (not the PORK we just saw "conservative" republicans just put into the budget Bush will sign) and elimination of the choking debt this country has put on my children and their childrens children. I think government that trys to legislate morality or force religous dogma on anyone protected by our constitution and bill of rights is just out right misuse of political dominion. I am not so foolish as to subscribe to the thought "if it feels good, do it", but I do believe as some others here that some laws like marijauna, gambling, and sex laws should be up to the states or local government at rule by majority vote, not a mandate of federal law because of its potential for abuse. Just look at how many private contractors built jails and sold them to municipalities at tax payer expense to be filled by some poor souls who just fired up a doobie at the wrong time, in the wrong place.
I can remember going to concerts where as soon as the lights went out and the bands played, the joints where passed around to 50,000 fans non stop all night, with the cops at the door doing nothing--WHY?-- because it wasn't a problem drug. But right wing jerkoff politicians and the drones that support them, see how to protect their "investments" in jail house contractors by insuring pot smokers get to fill the jails at government expense (That's taxpayers for the uneducated). That wrong puts me in the social liberal camp. I will remain there until some sense gets knocked into some of these far right limbugh following sheep.
I will vote for whoever most supports that viewpoint or is closest to it, and that has not been republican yet. But if John McCain runs, that may very well change. Libertarians just can't seem to field a valid, sustainable candidate for the highest office, and none of them have been doing any good at the local levels in my state, and greenies can eat----- green stuff for all I care. I believe in sensable and fair land and resource management, not radical fabricated crap greenies have been running on for so long.
That puts me in the middle somewhere, I suspect, and I'm compfortable with that.
:beer:
I can remember going to concerts where as soon as the lights went out and the bands played, the joints where passed around to 50,000 fans non stop all night, with the cops at the door doing nothing--WHY?-- because it wasn't a problem drug. But right wing jerkoff politicians and the drones that support them, see how to protect their "investments" in jail house contractors by insuring pot smokers get to fill the jails at government expense (That's taxpayers for the uneducated). That wrong puts me in the social liberal camp. I will remain there until some sense gets knocked into some of these far right limbugh following sheep.
I will vote for whoever most supports that viewpoint or is closest to it, and that has not been republican yet. But if John McCain runs, that may very well change. Libertarians just can't seem to field a valid, sustainable candidate for the highest office, and none of them have been doing any good at the local levels in my state, and greenies can eat----- green stuff for all I care. I believe in sensable and fair land and resource management, not radical fabricated crap greenies have been running on for so long.
That puts me in the middle somewhere, I suspect, and I'm compfortable with that.
:beer:
I'm not anti-war but I'm with the other two. I guess I'm socially liberal (ie: the govt has no business meddling in either people's bedrooms or with religion), while fiscally conservative (less welfare, lower taxes, more deregulation etc...)
I guess I'm for freedom on both sides.
I believe thats called having your cake and eating it too
Its interensting, the posted definition of liberal by Ornery while accurate, does not completely cover the popular usage of the term.
Liberalism in modern day politics, in addition to its desire for social change and progress, is also defined by its methods. Specifically the use of federal laws and programs to enact change and address problems. The irony of this is that very often the "save the children" or "for the good of society" attitude very often leads to an extremly un-liberal situation (in terms of its latin root, 'libre', for freedom).
IMHO, it stems from the basic tenent that 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly'. Politicians and political parties convince themselves that if they could just get some more power or control over something, they could use it to do so much good. However in the face of other parties and that pesky constitution make it a constant fight to get said power. Somewhere along the lines, even with good intentions, the cart winds up before the horse and it becomes much more a fight for power than a fight for good.
bart
I've always wondered why the words liberal and progressive are used in the same sentence.
Who decides what policy is considered progress and which is not. I've always found that progress for the sake of progress is a mistake.
If there's a problem you fix it but don't make stuff up trying to look busy or "progressive".
I'm fiscally conservative. I think the budget and federal spending shouldn't go up any faster than half the rate of GDP growth for the previous year. Taxes should be raised only as a last resort.
Yes, I am a social welfare and believe in massive government spending. I also believe in massive tax shelters and pay no income tax.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
It is not the party that matters but each and every vote of Congress... that you can influence. The Execuitive has an agenda, parts of which I support and parts of which I do not... I can't influence that branch but, I can the Congress. For instance... Manufacturing in the US. If we had more factories we'd have more jobs... we do have more people and Service Industry cannot support the increase but, more importantly, the control slips outside the US and to the extent is does we become weak economically vis a vis the Soviet Union. You must be prepared to give something up to fund something in a balanced budget enviornment... It is ok to use debt to finance long term assets... roads, bridges, etc... that also have a trust fund set up... but, not current expense.
The pork rider on a bill sometimes is good sometimes is bad... depends on what it is..
So... as a FC and SL I spend lots of time understanding the various bills and let my feelings be known... if the Rep votes against my choice I make note of it and next time I vote I consider the record...
Eventually, we will have to address the issue before us and Isolate to get our Mfg. back.
The pork rider on a bill sometimes is good sometimes is bad... depends on what it is..
So... as a FC and SL I spend lots of time understanding the various bills and let my feelings be known... if the Rep votes against my choice I make note of it and next time I vote I consider the record...
Eventually, we will have to address the issue before us and Isolate to get our Mfg. back.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Quote by Ornery
Fiscal Conservatives, IMO, are anti big government and bureaucracy. Is it a given that tax cuts automatically mean lower revenues? I believe that once the market picks up, the budget will be easily balanced.[/quote]
Assuming the market to be a barometer of economic expectation one would have to agree that in the longer term the budget may be balanced... but, first a lot of confidence has to be generated by the companies (that are left) so they will staff to expectations... but, consider the little change in the price of housing versus the change in income on a dollar basis... Lower interest rates ought to have put gazillions in the homeowners hands and that notion should have the corporations beating down the doors of potential employees... instead.. we have lost over two million jobs (net). That must mean something... Don't look to the periodic peaks and valleys of the market.. look to the trend... Consider what will occur when the interest rates go up again and the price of housing goes up and wages go up marginally..... less disposable income... less purchases... Even the Govts HDTV effort (to cause people to buy new TVs why?????) won't have an affect because alot of them are foreign made... Kick back time..
"...definition of liberal by Ornery while accurate, does not completely cover the popular usage of the term."
There's the problem, that's why I prefer to use the term Democrat. Liberal and Democrat are NOT synonymous. Neither are Conservative and Republican. owensdj got it right...
"...sounds like you'd like the Libertarian Party."
I AM A LIBERTARIAN! That's why I keep pointing out how close the GOP and Libertarians are on the big issues. I can tolerate the nitwits having their way on the far religious right. Doesn't cost me anything in the form of extra taxes if they get their prayer allowed in public schools. But, if I were to allow the Democrats and their issues to be forwarded, we're all looking at getting saddled with more and more taxes for everything from the failed Social Security System, to National Health Care and God knows what else. I'll sacrifice voting for the GOP and the few religious nuts to keep the Dems out of office. No point in voting for a Libertarian candidate. Those are votes primarily taken from Republicans. I learned my lesson when I voted for Perot the first time. You better believe I won't make that mistake ever again!
Good Night Folks!
There's the problem, that's why I prefer to use the term Democrat. Liberal and Democrat are NOT synonymous. Neither are Conservative and Republican. owensdj got it right...
"...sounds like you'd like the Libertarian Party."
I AM A LIBERTARIAN! That's why I keep pointing out how close the GOP and Libertarians are on the big issues. I can tolerate the nitwits having their way on the far religious right. Doesn't cost me anything in the form of extra taxes if they get their prayer allowed in public schools. But, if I were to allow the Democrats and their issues to be forwarded, we're all looking at getting saddled with more and more taxes for everything from the failed Social Security System, to National Health Care and God knows what else. I'll sacrifice voting for the GOP and the few religious nuts to keep the Dems out of office. No point in voting for a Libertarian candidate. Those are votes primarily taken from Republicans. I learned my lesson when I voted for Perot the first time. You better believe I won't make that mistake ever again!
Good Night Folks!
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