Is it possible for a power surge to come through your ethernet cable...

[Fern]

Originally posted by: cscpianoman
I don't remember any card with my surge protector. The surge protector came in a box that only wrapped the protector, no card or installation instructions for that matter yet it said there was some outragious coverage for all connected devices. Did I miss something?

Did I miss something?

Quite possibly, other explanations c/b self insurance (the company will pay) or they have a "blanket policy" for proven claims.

Neither of which IMHO are good biz models. The problem with self insurance should be evident, with the blanket policy, seems difficult to me for the insurance company to know what to charge for premiums - cuz it would depend on coverage limit(s) and number of units sold. How to know the latter? Unless there is an "adjustment or lookback" clause in the insurance package. I.e., make an assumption about number of sold, then after the close of the year settle up for the diff in estimated v. actual.

A risk management professional may have other ideas?

OTH, something along these lines would provide savings in terms of eliminating the processing facility.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: MCrusty

Originally posted by: Fern
As to why in your case the unit seems OK after experiencing surges, I don't believe it's a matter input/output readings. Rather whether there is still protection. No software or other means can test whether your lightning surge protector is still "active". That was an original problem with the tech to begin with.

Hope that helps,

Fern

But if the software is still reporting constant signals then afaik the surge system in my UPS is still completely functional. If I see a voltage spike go up to say 600VAC my UPS might say 112VAC on the output, but 90% of the time it sits constant. But if one of those spikes causes my surge protection to stop working.... why does it still work?

I think I'm begining to understand where you're coming from.

I'll clarify: When the "surge protection" aspect fails, current still flows through the unit. But it's now nothing more than an "extension cord", no protection.

Does that answer it?

I've gotta bug out now, wife says time to go home.

Fern

 

[corkyg]

All the surge protectors in the world will not stop a direct lightning strike. It makes no difference at all if the conduit carries voltage or power. As long as it is a channel of conductivity - which Cat 5 cable most certainly is.

Scenario - lightning strikes your house where your cable or phone line enters. It fries the modem and continues on along every wire connected to that modem. If it goes to a wireless router - it can stop there. But, if it is wired to computers - they can all get zapped.

People just don't comprehend the power in a lightning strike. It hit my power transformer a few years ago and wiped out my entire security panel and a few other things. We were not home, so, as is my practice in the summer months (our prime lightning season) whenever we go away, I disconnect all computers and peripheral devices.

All this technobabble about UPS capacities, etc., only apply to down line surges - not direct strikes. Lightning arresters and grounds can provide a lot of protection - but most homes I see today, do not have those.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: MCrusty

Originally posted by: Fern
As to why in your case the unit seems OK after experiencing surges, I don't believe it's a matter input/output readings. Rather whether there is still protection. No software or other means can test whether your lightning surge protector is still "active". That was an original problem with the tech to begin with.

Hope that helps,

Fern

But if the software is still reporting constant signals then afaik the surge system in my UPS is still completely functional. If I see a voltage spike go up to say 600VAC my UPS might say 112VAC on the output, but 90% of the time it sits constant. But if one of those spikes causes my surge protection to stop working.... why does it still work?

I think I'm begining to understand where you're coming from.

I'll clarify: When the "surge protection" aspect fails, current still flows through the unit. But it's now nothing more than an "extension cord", no protection.

Does that answer it?

I've gotta bug out now, wife says time to go home.

Fern

Hehe not at all.

So from what you are saying, all it takes is one surge to go through my UPS and then it won't protect from them again... Yet I've watched multiple surges go through it within minutes and it still functions perfectly.

 

[shoRunner]

simple answer, yes

 

[NathanBWF]

Originally posted by: shoRunner
simple answer, yes

Thanks, that is all I was looking for.

But seriously, thanks to everyone for all of the other posts. Very informing! This guy is going to be pissed...because I think his surge protector had a Cat5 port on it.

Ah well, live and learn.

 

[oceanisler]

I know this is a super old thread, but corkyg seems to be correct. Lighting can hit your device and travel through Ethernet, but no surge protector will protect that. It will weld it together so fast. The Ethernet ports protect from out of norm surges from the outlet grid. So, if your routers and switched are connected to surge protectors, Ethernet by it self is a long shot.

And lighting is not gonna run 20' of Ethernet when it can release positive or negative charges. It would melt it in an instant. Now using a powerline adapter is a whole other ball game, and i dont know if the voltage could go through it as you are not suppose to use it with a surge protector.

 

[mnewsham]

I know this is a super old thread, but corkyg seems to be correct. Lighting can hit your device and travel through Ethernet, but no surge protector will protect that. It will weld it together so fast. The Ethernet ports protect from out of norm surges from the outlet grid. So, if your routers and switched are connected to surge protectors, Ethernet by it self is a long shot.

And lighting is not gonna run 20' of Ethernet when it can release positive or negative charges. It would melt it in an instant. Now using a powerline adapter is a whole other ball game, and i dont know if the voltage could go through it as you are not suppose to use it with a surge protector.

This necro reminds me that my new UPS has an ethernet surge protector.

 

[westom]

This necro reminds me that my new UPS has an ethernet surge protector.

Little to no relationship exists between words protector and protection. Any protector that would 'block' or 'absorb' a surge is bogus. Especially true of adjacent power strips or that UPS. Those only claim to protect from surges that are routinely converted by your computer's PSU into rock stable, low voltage DC to safely power semiconductors. Those near zero surges, that do not damage appliances, may also destroy near zero protection inside a power strip or UPS.

Making it near zero (and the resulting protector failure) gets to the naive to recommend and buy more potential house fires.

The fewer and informed know (for example) that a properly installed coaxial cable has best protection installed for free by a TV and internet provider. Best protection is a hardwire from that cable, connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters), to single point earth ground. Then no surge current is anywhere inside. Then no surge current is on any ethernet cable. Then superior protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.

Same protection must exist on every wire inside every incoming cable. Telephone and AC electric cannot connect directly to earth. So a 'whole house' protector does what a direct connection to earth does better.

No protector does protection. An effective solution connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to single point earth ground. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly. Either that energy hunts for and dissipates destructively inside some household appliances. Or that energy is never inside; dissipates harmlessly in earth. Only a homeowner makes that decision.

One can foolishly spend tens or 100 times more money for magic box protectors (ie power strip or UPS) with numbers that do not even claim effective protection. Or one can spend maybe $1 per protected appliance for a best and only solution always found where even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Protector adjacent to an appliance has no earth ground AND will not discuss it. Effective protector always has a low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends) connection to what is the protection: single point earth ground. Then no surge is anywhere inside. Then everything is protected. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. So that even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

 

[piasabird]

I had a little hub that was damaged from an electrical storm. Network signals were overloaded somehow. Those things work with very low current so an electric surge coming in through cable or phone lines is possible. In my case, I have a large transformer on the telephone pole in my back yard. Those things are like Lightning Magnets.

Things like a power supply designed to run off of 110 or 120 are pretty tough and they take a rather large surge to hurt them. Also most electric sources are grounded and have safeguards built in. Unless lightning strikes a building I cant see much of a problem with that. Often computers are hooked up with a surge suppressing power cord.

 

[mnewsham]

~snip~

I'm not even using the thing, this thread simply reminded me it was there. I am using the UPS for my monitors, speakers, and PC to be able to continue operation during a power outage. I get about 35 minutes run time on the battery.

 

[westom]

Things like a power supply designed to run off of 110 or 120 are pretty tough and they take a rather large surge to hurt them.

Toughness is defined by numbers. An electronic power supply should withstand voltages as high as 600 volts without damage. That was a standard before PCs existed. Today's electronics are often tougher.

Ethernet (for low current signals) is more robust; will withstand 2000 volts without damage. Superior to protection that might be provided by a UPS's ethernet protector.

Unfortunately incoming AC only earths one incoming wire. If all other AC wires are not earthed, then protection does not exist. If a 'whole house' protector does not exist, then all other AC wires are not earthed.

Protection is about earth ground; not a wall receptacle's safety ground. A surge on any and every incoming wire must be earthed BEFORE entering a building.

A homeowner install a 'secondary' protection layer; a properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Same applies to a utility transformer. Also inspect what provides the 'primary' protection layer - that transformer's earth ground. If copper thieves have stolen that ground wire, then all household appliances are at serious risk.

A home can be wired per code. That means TV cable and telephone wires are earthed. And AC electric wires enter without being earthed. Damage on the outgoing path (telephone or ethernet wires) exists because a surge that was all but invited inside on AC mains that have insufficient earthing.