Is it ok to work sore muscles?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I don't want to accidentally injure myself.

Today I stood up and stretched and could barely extend straight due to the soreness in the abs and the shoulders+biceps. Does this mean that I shouldn't be working these muscle groups? Or is it ok to still work sore muscle groups?

 

[conorvansmack]

It's fine. Do some of the same or similar exercises the following day with reduced weight to flush new blood into the muscles to help with recovery. Don't skip a workout because of soreness. It will pass with consistency.

If only it was as easy to do as it is to type!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If you're sore to the point of significant discomfort or even pain, then no you shouldn't work out again that day. You should do some light activity to help flush some fresh blood through the muscles, but no lifting or serious cardio. If you're mildly to moderately sore, a lot of the times you can get through it and still get a good workout in. Just make sure you're eating appropriately (enough calories, enough protein) to heal those damaged muscles.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Ah, perfect. What's actually going on behind sore muscles? I'm sore, not painful, but I guess it's a fine line between *really sore* and pain, no?

1. Muscles get worked.
2. Lactic acid gets released and muscle fibers break down, resulting in soreness.
3. Post-workout you need some protein to repair those muscle fibers, in the process making them bigger / capable of doing more work for longer
4. You need to exercise those muscles and continue to circulate blood to them to help the healing process?

So if it's just moderately sore, it's pointless to let the muscle rest since you're not helping circulate new blood to them, right? Should you be at least gritting through the soreness and stretching those muscles and moving them around?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Ah, perfect. What's actually going on behind sore muscles? I'm sore, not painful, but I guess it's a fine line between *really sore* and pain, no?

1. Muscles get worked.
2. Lactic acid gets released and muscle fibers break down, resulting in soreness.
3. Post-workout you need some protein to repair those muscle fibers, in the process making them bigger / capable of doing more work for longer
4. You need to exercise those muscles and continue to circulate blood to them to help the healing process?

So if it's just moderately sore, it's pointless to let the muscle rest since you're not helping circulate new blood to them, right? Should you be at least gritting through the soreness and stretching those muscles and moving them around?

Just to help you understand things better, what you posted isn't quite correct. I'll give you revised steps as to what happens.

1) Muscle gets worked, resulting in micro-tears of the connective tissue within the functional unit of muscles (the sarcomere).

2) These micro-tears cause inflammation, which up regulates your sensitivity to stimuli (things other than typically painful stimuli cause pain, i.e. stretching the muscle). Lactic acid doesn't play a role in soreness, nor does it play a role in muscle fatigue really. Lactic acid is something that comes about and is a sign of working at near-maximal efforts, but is not the cause of failure.

3) The body utilizes dietary amino acids to help repair those tears and over-compensate to create stronger connective tissue and muscle.

4) The soreness typically peaks 24-48h after the workout. The inflammatory compounds can be flushed out to a certain degree if you lightly use the muscles that got worked, just by flushing the muscle out and bringing new blood in (that doesn't have the inflammatory compounds yet).

Stretching, if you're really sore, can actually make things worse. Working out causes micro-tears in muscle and connective tissue. Stretching causes the same thing, which can cause trauma on top of the original damage from working out. Stretching should typically be done after a work-out, not when you're super sore. Stretching doesn't make muscle soreness better. It, in fact, typically makes it worse. Active recovery days that include walking, light jogging, cycling, swimming, or other recreational activities are optimal.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Just to help you understand things better, what you posted isn't quite correct. I'll give you revised steps as to what happens.

1) Muscle gets worked, resulting in micro-tears of the connective tissue within the functional unit of muscles (the sarcomere).

2) These micro-tears cause inflammation, which up regulates your sensitivity to stimuli (things other than typically painful stimuli cause pain, i.e. stretching the muscle). Lactic acid doesn't play a role in soreness, nor does it play a role in muscle fatigue really. Lactic acid is something that comes about and is a sign of working at near-maximal efforts, but is not the cause of failure.

3) The body utilizes dietary amino acids to help repair those tears and over-compensate to create stronger connective tissue and muscle.

4) The soreness typically peaks 24-48h after the workout. The inflammatory compounds can be flushed out to a certain degree if you lightly use the muscles that got worked, just by flushing the muscle out and bringing new blood in (that doesn't have the inflammatory compounds yet).

Stretching, if you're really sore, can actually make things worse. Working out causes micro-tears in muscle and connective tissue. Stretching causes the same thing, which can cause trauma on top of the original damage from working out. Stretching should typically be done after a work-out, not when you're super sore. Stretching doesn't make muscle soreness better. It, in fact, typically makes it worse. Active recovery days that include walking, light jogging, cycling, swimming, or other recreational activities are optimal.

Gah, I find this stuff so fascinating.

1. Muscles have micro tears and need amino acids to help rebuild. Those amino acids come from carbs, proteins, and fats. If you eat *nothing* and have those micro tears, some amino acids are made from fat reserves but some more come from existing muscles, right? Almost like a zero-sum game.

2. So stretching just pulls even more at the muscle, tearing it even more. It doesn't really flush the muscle containing those inflammatory compounds with new blood. Only activity can do that.

3. What causes the soreness? Just because something is inflamed (uh, bulging in size?) doesn't mean that it's necessarily painful, does it?

4. When the body over-repairs the muscles get bigger. Why then do they get smaller over time? I think of it as when you break a bone it heals larger and stronger. But I don't think the fracture point would then get smaller over time...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Gah, I find this stuff so fascinating.

1. Muscles have micro tears and need amino acids to help rebuild. Those amino acids come from carbs, proteins, and fats. If you eat *nothing* and have those micro tears, some amino acids are made from fat reserves but some more come from existing muscles, right? Almost like a zero-sum game.

2. So stretching just pulls even more at the muscle, tearing it even more. It doesn't really flush the muscle containing those inflammatory compounds with new blood. Only activity can do that.

3. What causes the soreness? Just because something is inflamed (uh, bulging in size?) doesn't mean that it's necessarily painful, does it?

4. When the body over-repairs the muscles get bigger. Why then do they get smaller over time? I think of it as when you break a bone it heals larger and stronger. But I don't think the fracture point would then get smaller over time...

#1 - Amino acids only come from your proteins. Fat and carbohydrate are metabolized in the process to help form these new proteins and power them when they're repaired. Amino acids cannot be made from carbs or fat spontaneously in any amount that is significant within the body. Technically, there are some reactions where amino acids can become carbohydrate (glucose) and by default there is a pathway backward, but it doesn't happen in the body.

#2 - essentially, yes.

#3 - inflammation is inherently painful. I think you're misinterpreting inflammation as meaning swelling or edema. Those can be non-painful. Inflammation, by default, has several components - rubor (redness), dolor (pain), calor (hot to the touch), edema (swollen), and dysfunction. The inflammatory compounds literally make your nerve endings more sensitive to any sort of input. That means deep pressure that's typically not uncomfortable is now painful. That means stretching becomes painful. If a sensory neuron fires too much, it can become painful. Those inflammatory compounds (cytokines, interleukins, etc) make these sensory neurons easier to fire.

#4 - I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. The muscles will continue to get bigger if 1) you're eating enough, 2) you're continually stressing the muscle. I don't know what you've experienced with muscles getting bigger and then smaller... And when you break a bone, it gets bigger but definitely not stronger. When you stress the bone healthily with impact exercise, it doesn't get bigger, it gets denser. It's a different adaptation, but is the result of appropriate stress on the tissue - the same as a muscle getting stronger and larger.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

#1 - Amino acids only come from your proteins. Fat and carbohydrate are metabolized in the process to help form these new proteins and power them when they're repaired. Amino acids cannot be made from carbs or fat spontaneously in any amount that is significant within the body. Technically, there are some reactions where amino acids can become carbohydrate (glucose) and by default there is a pathway backward, but it doesn't happen in the body.

#4 - I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. The muscles will continue to get bigger if 1) you're eating enough, 2) you're continually stressing the muscle. I don't know what you've experienced with muscles getting bigger and then smaller... And when you break a bone, it gets bigger but definitely not stronger. When you stress the bone healthily with impact exercise, it doesn't get bigger, it gets denser. It's a different adaptation, but is the result of appropriate stress on the tissue - the same as a muscle getting stronger and larger.

1. Gotcha. So if you want amino acids to repair the muscle, straight protein is the way to go. Proteins for muscle creation. Carbs and fat for fuel to drive the muscles. I also heard that protein gets broken down to fuel the muscles as well?

4. When you don't work out your muscles get weaker and smaller. Why is that? If you continue to eat a lot of protein why do the muscles get smaller? They were overbuilt when working out, so something must be shrinking them.

Why is causing those tears necessary just to maintain muscle mass, if the mass has already been built through past tearing?

 

[jsedlak]

Typically in cycling the goal is to make muscles sore and then next day go for a nice, light spin to help loosen them up (and not create more tears).

 

[SilthDraeth]

1. Gotcha. So if you want amino acids to repair the muscle, straight protein is the way to go. Proteins for muscle creation. Carbs and fat for fuel to drive the muscles. I also heard that protein gets broken down to fuel the muscles as well?

4. When you don't work out your muscles get weaker and smaller. Why is that? If you continue to eat a lot of protein why do the muscles get smaller? They were overbuilt when working out, so something must be shrinking them.

Why is causing those tears necessary just to maintain muscle mass, if the mass has already been built through past tearing?

4. The same reason they get bigger if over used to compensate, if they are underused the muscle tissue will atrophy from disuse, or under use, ie, your body will break down and reabsorb the tissues.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

1. Gotcha. So if you want amino acids to repair the muscle, straight protein is the way to go. Proteins for muscle creation. Carbs and fat for fuel to drive the muscles. I also heard that protein gets broken down to fuel the muscles as well?

4. When you don't work out your muscles get weaker and smaller. Why is that? If you continue to eat a lot of protein why do the muscles get smaller? They were overbuilt when working out, so something must be shrinking them.

Why is causing those tears necessary just to maintain muscle mass, if the mass has already been built through past tearing?

#1 - Yep, you're right. Certain amino acids can be broken down in such a way that they can be converted into compounds that can be used for energy (particularly in the citric acid cycle) via a process called gluconeogenesis.

#4 - If the muscles are not challenged to the degree that they previously have been (or slightly less or more), they don't receive the physical stimulus to maintain or increase size and strength of the muscle. With muscle, the principle of use it or lose it applies. Muscle is very metabolically costly and, if you don't need it, your body won't keep it because it can utilize those resources elsewhere. If you eat a lot of protein, I believe atrophy is blunted, but not eliminated.