Is it ok for super rich to pay a lower effective tax rate than middle class?

[brainhulk]

will the extra money for them help the US economy? Does it provide for a healthy environment for businesses and ultimately a larger, robust middle class?

 

[Dulanic]

Might want to change that to lower effective tax rate before the rabid right runs in screaming they pay more and so it is clear to people what you mean.

 

[Conscript]

Is it alright to be penalized for being successful? Flat tax or national sales tax IMO. If you want that 60" TV and gold rims, great...but don't look for me to subsidize you medical or food costs just because I've made different life choices.

 

[Mixolydian]

Flat tax. Everyone pay x% of their total income, whatever that may be.

 

[brianmanahan]

Is it alright to be penalized for being successful? Flat tax or national sales tax IMO. If you want that 60" TV and gold rims, great...but don't look for me to subsidize you medical or food costs just because I've made different life choices.

+1

 

[Incorruptible]

Is it alright to be penalized for being successful? Flat tax or national sales tax IMO. If you want that 60" TV and gold rims, great...but don't look for me to subsidize you medical or food costs just because I've made different life choices.

Well said, end the income tax and replace it with a national sales/consumption tax

 

[blackangst1]

For ordinary income? No, and they dont.

 

[blankslate]

The goals of a national consumption tax would be better accomplished by a Value Added Tax or V.A.T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax

A consumption tax shouldn't be as high on items like non-processed food and basic clothing.

 

[Phokus]

Flat tax. Everyone pay x% of their total income, whatever that may be.

"Dear poor people, please eat shit"

 

[Incorruptible]

"Dear poor people, please eat shit"

I prefer that over all of us hardworking people getting screwed by them

 

[MrColin]

Might want to change that to lower effective tax rate before the rabid right runs in screaming they pay more and so it is clear to people what you mean.

Poll failure, abort.

 

[Infohawk]

I like how everyone's shifting the discussion from the very rich having a lower rate to the very rich paying the same or higher rate.

There is zero reason we should have regressive tax rates. Romney is embodying it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Is it alright to be penalized for being successful? Flat tax or national sales tax IMO. If you want that 60" TV and gold rims, great...but don't look for me to subsidize you medical or food costs just because I've made different life choices.

Some of you fucks are amazing. "I've made different life choices. I built this." America has become a cesspool of self-centered arrogant pricks.

 

[OCGuy]

It's wrong for "poor" people to pay a zero effective tax rate, sometimes they even get money they didnt give!

This is why a national consumption tax is needed.

 

[Incorruptible]

It's wrong for "poor" people to pay a zero effective tax rate, sometimes they even get money they didnt give!

This is way a national consumption tax is needed.

Its funny how none of the leftists mention this at all

 

[soundforbjt]

Shut up and give me more government handouts

Is this the option for the rich also as well as the very poor?

 

[Conscript]

Some of you fucks are amazing. "I've made different life choices. I built this." America has become a cesspool of self-centered arrogant pricks.

and apparently the rest of us have become greedy, lazy, irresponsible, handout seeking vaginas? I'll go with that.

I know I know, you have some personal heartfelt story about someone close in your life that needs governments handouts. Stop trying to identify a few personal examples as an excuse for the widespread abuse.

Anyone on these forums posting in these threads to begin talking about themselfs as one of those under hardships deserving handouts infuriates me. How bout getting off the fucking Anand forums and wasting time and go out and work? At the very least if you can't work and you're getting assitance, don't waste it on internet to forum post. With 47K posts here at Anand, I truly hope you're not even partly evoking yourself in this category. I'm shocking and revolting I know, the truth usually is the hardest to digest.

More than likely you're in the other category, the 20-30 something college grads with poly-sci majors with shitty or no jobs, who think they understand the world and pity all those "poor people" and want to fix the world with their theories of redistribution.

 

[tweaker2]

Once again: Imagine a huge lake being representative of the wealth of a billionaire and a pothole puddle being representative of the measly savings of a middle class or poor person.

Then, take five buckets of water out the rich man's lake. He won't even notice it. Now take a single bucket of water out of the poor man's puddle. The poor guy would have nothing left but a spoonful of mud.

The rich guy then describes himself as "paying much more in taxes" than the little guy and so his tax rate should be lowered while conveniently ignoring how much more damaging it is to the little guy if just one bucket of water gets taken out his puddle.

The rich guy wants to equally compare his wealth with the poor guys "wealth" as if the five buckets that gets taken out of his huge lake is felt as badly as the poor guys one bucket's worth getting taken out of his now empty puddle of mud. And there's a whole lot of middle class and poor folks that get fooled into believing the rich huy is right....apparently.

Sorry to have to explain this in such rudimentary terms, but the argument supporting how rich people pay "much more in taxes than everybody else", thus deserving even more tax cuts needs to be plainly debunked every so often.

Let's not even begin to add in all the loopholes in the tax code the rich enjoy ala Cayman Islands etc. of which they have managed to corrupt their way into law.

 

[Conscript]

Once again: Imagine a huge lake being representative of the wealth of a billionaire and a pothole puddle being representative of the measly savings of a middle class or poor person.

Then, take five buckets of water out the rich man's lake. He won't even notice it. Now take a single bucket of water out of the poor man's puddle. The poor guy would have nothing left but a spoonful of mud.

The rich guy then describes himself as "paying much more in taxes" than the little guy and so his tax rate should be lowered while conveniently ignoring how much more damaging it is to the little guy if just one bucket of water gets taken out his puddle.

The rich guy wants to equally compare his wealth with the poor guys "wealth" as if the five buckets that gets taken out of his huge lake is felt as badly as the poor guys one bucket's worth getting taken out of his now empty puddle of mud. And there's a whole lot of middle class and poor folks that get fooled into believing the rich huy is right....apparently.

Sorry to have to explain this in such rudimentary terms, but the argument supporting how rich people pay "much more in taxes than everybody else", thus deserving even more tax cuts needs to be plainly debunked every so often.

Let's not even begin to add in all the loopholes in the tax code the rich enjoy ala Cayman Islands etc. of which they have managed to corrupt their way into law.

so you agree then based on your example of a flat tax where everyone pays the same % of the money they make through their own hard work, determination, entrepreneurship, luck, whatever, for the privileged and right to live in this country? You have to mean than based on this post. Guess what? I don't think you'll find a rational conservative/republican that doesn't want just that.

 

[Engineer]

so you agree then based on your example of a flat tax where everyone pays the same % of the money they make through their own hard work, determination, entrepreneurship, luck, whatever, for the privileged and right to live in this country? You have to mean than based on this post. Guess what? I don't think you'll find a rational conservative/republican that doesn't want just that.

Would you be willing to have YOUR taxes go up to get that? I don't think you'll find many of "insert party here" that would say that and MEAN it. That's exactly what would happen to YOUR taxes in such a system, even at CURRENT revenues.*

(* Unless you are in the top 10% to the top 99.9% or so)

 

[berzerker60]

and apparently the rest of us have become greedy, lazy, irresponsible, handout seeking vaginas? I'll go with that.

I know I know, you have some personal heartfelt story about someone close in your life that needs governments handouts. Stop trying to identify a few personal examples as an excuse for the widespread abuse.

Anyone on these forums posting in these threads to begin talking about themselfs as one of those under hardships deserving handouts infuriates me. How bout getting off the fucking Anand forums and wasting time and go out and work? At the very least if you can't work and you're getting assitance, don't waste it on internet to forum post. With 47K posts here at Anand, I truly hope you're not even partly evoking yourself in this category. I'm shocking and revolting I know, the truth usually is the hardest to digest.

More than likely you're in the other category, the 20-30 something college grads with poly-sci majors with shitty or no jobs, who think they understand the world and pity all those "poor people" and want to fix the world with their theories of redistribution.

"widespread abuse" [citation needed]

 

[OCGuy]

Taxes aren't even the problem. It is the huge government waste. They will always spend more than what they take in, so increasing taxes on ANYONE is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Incorruptible]

Taxes aren't even the problem. It is the huge government waste. They will always spend more than what they take in, so increasing taxes on ANYONE is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Well said. Spending is the problem but too many idiots dont realize this

 

[a777pilot]

will the extra money for them help the US economy? Does it provide for a healthy environment for businesses and ultimately a larger, robust middle class?

LOL!

Wrong question.

At this time 70% said "no". I bet 100% of that 70% wants to have more money.

 

[Conscript]

Would you be willing to have YOUR taxes go up to get that? I don't think you'll find many of "insert party here" that would say that and MEAN it. That's exactly what would happen to YOUR taxes in such a system, even at CURRENT revenues.*

(* Unless you are in the top 10% to the top 99.9% or so)

if i were in that top % paying 14% due to alternative income, probably not. But fuck them, I'm not an advocate for them either. I'm talking about the rest in between, who bust their ass everyday with normal jobs, paying bills, feeding families, and would rather go without cable tv or that fancy car before feeding off the government tit. I'm already in the 28% tax bracket married filing jointly, but the only income while my wife takes care of our small children. I by no means am living a life of destitution and I know I have it better than most, but by no means living the high life either.

And to answer your question, to further this country and get us our of the shithole mess, I would pay more taxes, as long as it was coupled with less spending and a focus on more personal responsibility. I'm all for helping those in need, but our barometers have failed us and I have a personal conviction that for every dollar needed, there's a dollar being abused somewhere else. I only ask for some sort of balance. I will revolt or leave before i pay more so we can spend more on those unwilling to make the sacrifices that others have made.