Is it my Timing Belt or Oil Sludge? What's the difference?

[rasczak]

How can I initially tell if my engine has blown a timing belt or blown up due to the oil sludge issue?

My wife was driving her car and as she coasted to the stop light the car just cut out. She tried starting it and all she heard was a whirring sound. I confirmed this when I got to the car and the sound was the same as she had described. I removed the oil cap to see if any lifters would move and I didn't see anything move.

Also, I'm going to be tearing the engine down Saturday so what tools would I need beforehand to do this?

Thanks!

Joe

 

[Lotheron]

What kind of whirring sound? Metal on Metal? How many miles on the engine? What car and what engine?

If the engine is an interference engine and the timing belt went out you're looking at quite an expense to fix as the pistons would come in contact with the valves causing damage to possibly both the valves and the pistons.

 

[PottedMeat]

Sounds like a timing belt.

I had a timing belt strip itself going down I-35 @ 75MPH. Crusin' along then the engine just dies and I'm coasting. I pull over and try to restart it but the engine just whirrs - the starter is cranking the engine but it's not starting. Luckily the engine was non-interference and I got it fixed on the side of the road.

Hopefully it isn't an interference engine...

 

[rasczak]

What kind of whirring sound? Metal on Metal? How many miles on the engine? What car and what engine?

If the engine is an interference engine and the timing belt went out you're looking at quite an expense to fix as the pistons would come in contact with the valves causing damage to possibly both the valves and the pistons.

It's a whirring sound like something is spinning yet nothing is turning over. No metal on metal. It's a 99 Passat 1.8t Turbo AEB engine code. roughly 125,000 miles. The way it sounds I'm almost positive now that my belt blew. I'm going to tear it down this weekend and see for sure if the belt went. If so, then I'll check the valves next. If they're bent, I'm probably not going to bother, I'll just part the car out then junk it. If it is the oil sludge issue, then I'm gonna part the car out and then junk it.

 

[Lotheron]

It's a whirring sound like something is spinning yet nothing is turning over. No metal on metal. It's a 99 Passat 1.8t Turbo AEB engine code. roughly 125,000 miles. The way it sounds I'm almost positive now that my belt blew. I'm going to tear it down this weekend and see for sure if the belt went. If so, then I'll check the valves next. If they're bent, I'm probably not going to bother, I'll just part the car out then junk it. If it is the oil sludge issue, then I'm gonna part the car out and then junk it.

At 125K without a belt change it's way past overdue. Most of them have a max of ~100k miles and that's pushing it IMHO.

Also, I believe that engine is an interference engine. (teh g00g is telling me this)

I'm so glad they are using chains again, so much better and they typically last the life of the engine.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167704

 

[ViviTheMage]

It's a whirring sound like something is spinning yet nothing is turning over. No metal on metal. It's a 99 Passat 1.8t Turbo AEB engine code. roughly 125,000 miles. The way it sounds I'm almost positive now that my belt blew. I'm going to tear it down this weekend and see for sure if the belt went. If so, then I'll check the valves next. If they're bent, I'm probably not going to bother, I'll just part the car out then junk it. If it is the oil sludge issue, then I'm gonna part the car out and then junk it.

You didn't get the letter from VW? They changed the interval on 1.8T's timing belts to 75k if I recall.

If you can, do the waterpump too, they used plastic blades on some of the older 1.8T's.

 

[rasczak]

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167704

thanks! I just saw this.

 

[rasczak]

You didn't get the letter from VW? They changed the interval on 1.8T's timing belts to 75k if I recall.

If you can, do the waterpump too, they used plastic blades on some of the older 1.8T's.

No I never got the letter as I am not the original owner.

 

[ViviTheMage]

No I never got the letter as I am not the original owner.

I wasn't the original owner and they sent me one..I assume if you register with the DMV, or go to any VW dealership they'd have you + your car on file.

But now you know ... get that timing belt swapped, and do the water pump while you are at it.

 

[Lotheron]

I wasn't the original owner and they sent me one..I assume if you register with the DMV, or go to any VW dealership they'd have you + your car on file.

But now you know ... get that timing belt swapped, and do the water pump while you are at it.

Assuming there isn't any damage to the engine.

According to http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3773656

16V's ARE interference, 8V's are NOT interference, even with a considerable camshaft.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Who the hell goes 125,000 miles on a timing belt? Even without the revised and shortened interval that's 20,000 miles past the mileage listed in the owner's manual.

ZV

 

[Lotheron]

Who the hell goes 125,000 miles on a timing belt? Even without the revised and shortened interval that's 20,000 miles past the mileage listed in the owner's manual.

ZV

umm, the OP? 😀

 

[rasczak]

Who the hell goes 125,000 miles on a timing belt? Even without the revised and shortened interval that's 20,000 miles past the mileage listed in the owner's manual.

ZV

I accept the flame. The only reason I've gone this far was we just haven't had the money to do so. Rather, because of my bad accounting skills I've never saved up for it. I'll pay the price this time, learn my lesson and get work done at scheduled intervals.

 

[Arkaign]

I accept the flame. The only reason I've gone this far was we just haven't had the money to do so. Rather, because of my bad accounting skills I've never saved up for it. I'll pay the price this time, learn my lesson and get work done at scheduled intervals.

I can understand your predicament. I've had feast or famine during various periods of my life, and finding a reputable mechanic to do a timing belt/water pump service not only costs you a good bit of $, but also time to drive out/leave the car/wait/pick it up/drive back/etc. If you have a job and possibly a family (also school), this takes a chunk out of your week no doubt, to go with the chunk out of your wallet.

For this reason, I LOOOOOVE it when a motor has a timing chain rated for the life of the motor, instead of a stupid rubber belt.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I accept the flame. The only reason I've gone this far was we just haven't had the money to do so. Rather, because of my bad accounting skills I've never saved up for it. I'll pay the price this time, learn my lesson and get work done at scheduled intervals.

Meh, I was having an irritable morning. I ought to have toned that reaction down a little.

Still, the whole maintenance thing is one of my triggers for lack of a better term. I see a lot of people put off maintenance to "save money" only to have something devastating happen later because the were "saving money" earlier by not replacing something that should have been replaced. People never change their brake fluid and then wonder why calipers seize or they never change their automatic transmission fluid and then they wonder why the transmission craps out at 150,000 miles. It's almost always false economy to defer maintenance.

ZV

 

[CraigRT]

Meh, I was having an irritable morning. I ought to have toned that reaction down a little.

Still, the whole maintenance thing is one of my triggers for lack of a better term. I see a lot of people put off maintenance to "save money" only to have something devastating happen later because the were "saving money" earlier by not replacing something that should have been replaced. People never change their brake fluid and then wonder why calipers seize or they never change their automatic transmission fluid and then they wonder why the transmission craps out at 150,000 miles. It's almost always false economy to defer maintenance.

ZV

Agree with you, one reason I pick a car nowadays is actually based on internal timing chain vs belt!

Both of my cars are chain, and provided I don't extend the OCI and run the sump low, those chains should last forever.

Also, ATF change.. So easy... and So necessary. For sure!

 

[Viperoni]

Agree with you, one reason I pick a car nowadays is actually based on internal timing chain vs belt!

Both of my cars are chain, and provided I don't extend the OCI and run the sump low, those chains should last forever.

Also, ATF change.. So easy... and So necessary. For sure!

Chains stretch and the tensioners still fail 😉
I'd rather have a belt.

 

[Ronstang]

Who the hell goes 125,000 miles on a timing belt? Even without the revised and shortened interval that's 20,000 miles past the mileage listed in the owner's manual.

ZV

I went over 140K on the original timing belt in my 92 SHO. I only changed it since the water pump finally gave way and you have to remove the timing belt to get to the pump. It is a non-interference engine so I was not overly concerned. Worst case scenario would have been a tow home, which would be free with AAA.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I went over 140K on the original timing belt in my 92 SHO. I only changed it since the water pump finally gave way and you have to remove the timing belt to get to the pump. It is a non-interference engine so I was not overly concerned. Worst case scenario would have been a tow home, which would be free with AAA.

I think my anal-retentive nature would give me a nervous tick if I tried to go that long on a timing belt. The Volvo is due for its next change at 140,000 miles (7 year/70,000 mile interval) and even though I'm only at 132,000 right now it still makes me a little nervous.

ZV

 

[Lotheron]

Chains stretch and the tensioners still fail 😉
I'd rather have a belt.

True, however, both should generally last the life of the engine. They are a little beefier since they are guiding a metal chain and not a high strength metal strengthened rubber belt.

 

[AMCRambler]

The only reason they switched to the belts is they're quieter and cheaper. I'd still rather have a timing chain. It will be a lot longer before a tensioner fails or the chain stretches enough to allow the engine to jump time.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Agree with you, one reason I pick a car nowadays is actually based on internal timing chain vs belt!

Both of my cars are chain, and provided I don't extend the OCI and run the sump low, those chains should last forever.

Also, ATF change.. So easy... and So necessary. For sure!

Good Christ why? It only costs a couple hundred dollars to change a timing belt, even at 75,000 mile intervals that amounts to about 1/2 a cent per mile added to the maintenance costs of the vehicle.

For all its advantages, a timing chain is noisier, less efficient, and more expensive than a timing belt. These timing belt / timing chain comparisons are particularly relevant on the overhead cam engines that are so common these days. Since an OHC timing chain would be so long, a timing belt actually has less lash and stretch resulting in better camshaft timing and improved efficiency.

I would never buy a vehicle based on whether it had a timing chain or timing belt. I might replace it once during the entire time I own the vehicle. It's simply a non-issue for me...and I'd NEVER skip any scheduled maintenance on my cars/bikes. I'm not even sure if my Maxima has a timing chain or timing belt (I think it's a chain though), I know my wife's car has a timing belt (it needs to be replaced at 90,000 miles).

 

[LTC8K6]

I like to hear the chain, though. Why would I want to quiet that lovely mechanical sound?

 

[PottedMeat]

i wish timing belts were a little more accessible. removing accessory belts, moving the power steering pump, having a special tool for the crankshaft pulley, removing an engine mount sucks but at least its only every ~105K miles.