Is it moral to manipulate other people when you know the truth.

[Moonbeam]

By truth here I mean I don't mean emperical fact, but philosophical, especially political truth. We have recently discussed flag burning, for example, quotas, etc, and now subliminal messages. I got chewed out for mentioning that flag burning is nothing more really than a Repub attempt to turn out voters by stirring up passions, not some true idiological heartfelt truth, although it is that in some cases. Now we get Bush with subliminal ads, and using Gore quotes out of context etc (...............) Conservatives, fill in your own gripes about Demo lies. I think we are constantly manipulated, not by believers, but by stratigists psychologists, that understand that elections are about image and set out to create and smear the images of friends and foes. Dirty politics is the term, I think. But since you are right, is there really any harm in playing on the emotions of people because they don't have the sense, themselves, to already be in the fold?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< Is it moral to manipulate other people when you know the truth. >>





I seriously hope you're kidding...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< Is it moral to manipulate other people when you know the truth. >>








I seriously hope you're kidding.....

 

[Yeeny]

The problem is people don't educate themselves enough. None of these messages would work, if people would research for themselves and find out the facts, instead of always depending on the media to get their point of view. I am guilty of this as well sometimes, and have to make myself do the actual work of looking for the truth. So, I think it is fine, because people are going to believe what they want to, and either it will be the easy way, or the truth.

This is what I am assuming you were asking by your post, please correct me if I am wrong....

 

[BoberFett]

Moonbeam

Absolutely it's harmful. Not only to the deceived but to the deceiver as well.

Unfortunately that's the world and part of life is learning to find the truth among a sea of lies.

Edit: Good lord, I'm starting to sound like Moonbeam.

 

[Bakwetu]

The problem is nobody can be educated in everything, besides some of the things needs pondering for while before you understand them. I know there have been problems that people are delibertly misinterpreting scientific results to get their point through. That's really hard to counter if you don't have the attention of the media and if you can't explain it easily. Shure, in the long run thruth wins, but by then the pseudothruth tellers are feeding us some other lies. It is definitely immoral and it really makes me angry :|

 

[Raspewtin]

<< Is it moral to manipulate other people when you know the truth. >>




I don't think anyone know's the &quot;truth,&quot; (or everyone does, same thing) and a good percentage of communication is trying to influence others anyway.

 

[yakko]

What GirlFriday says about people not educating themselves is more true than you realize.A good example is on of the ads for a senate seat here in Florida.The ad is against Bill McCollum and it states that he is against the three day waiting period and is siding with the gun lobby.This is true but what they refuse to point out is that the gun lobby usually wants at least a 5 day waiting period.

In my opinion they are all rats.

 

[Warrenton]

I know the truth, but you just won't accept it. Thats the way the world is.

Actually I am well educated... in computers

 

[vi edit]

I remember a commercial that my High School social studies teacher told me about. It was the election year that Barry Goldwater was running for election. The democrats made a commercial to slam him...and slam him hard.

It had a little girl running through a field of flowers, and then all of the sudden you see a hugh nuclear explosion complete with the 3 mile high mushroom cloud. It then had some caption along the lines of &quot;Don't want this to happen, vote Democrat&quot;

Or something to that effect. Talk about a psychological poke right in the eye of your enemies followers.

 

[Mule]

You guys think too much!

Ignorance is bliss

 

[Doomsday]

I agree with Girlfriday. It's just simply an issue of a lack of education, and surpluss of laziness. It doesn't hurt that some people will belive anything you tell them either. I'll admit that I tend to belive a few things that people tell me without question.

 

[Bakwetu]

Sure thing mule: not worrying, eating grass, being milked all day long. Just remember someday someone pushes you into a truck and takes you to a factory -bang you're a burger in some lowclass resturang. This is my slogan: start thinking or you'll end up at someones plate with fat fries and a dab of ketchup.

 

[Moonbeam]

FFmCobolt, Kidding about what? I was asking you forand interested in your opinion. Does that somehow imply something about me or mine?

Bobber, your sig is looking like something I might sport too. Perhaps because it's about water, it reminds me of a Zen story of a challenge of one sword maker to another. Their swords were placed in a river and a bambo leaf was put in somewhat upstream. When it hit the challenger's blade it was severed in two. A second leaf sailed around the second sward. The second was declared the winner.

Now if I can just relate that to dirty politicians. Yes we need to use them to test blades, second rate ones.

I'm pleased that people seem to find this repugnant. I think it's what runs people like Hitler and Sadam. They know what is best, and anything, therefore, goes if it serves their interests. There are few temptations I see more powerful than to take some liberty or shortcut because you are right. Evil is done by people who think they are good, it seems to me, not people who think they are bad.

It would be nice, I think, for this to be such a truism and such a well established and inculcated truth that all you would ever need to do is shout that it is happening and the perp would be shamed and silenced immediately by massive peer pressure. Shame isn't something you see alot of anymore, I guess because everybody says opinions are like a-holes everybody's got one, so they all stink instead of just the ones that really do.

The think for yourself recommendation does seem to be our only refuge, but the brainwashing seems to run real deep.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

You wanted philosophy, you're getting it:

Kant: No way Jose.
Bentham: Yeah you could if it makes everyone more happy than if you did otherwise.

kant is the dude who said you can't manipulate peeps cuz peeps got rights.
bentham is the utilitarian dude who say max happy = max good no matter what.

 

[IronMike]

How about applying this morality and manipulation to the great american sales machine. Is it moral to use sales techniques to influence someone to buy a product that they may not need or want or even be able to afford? Is it moral to &quot;sell&quot; your product when you know that other products are just as good or even better? Is it moral to attend sales &quot;seminars&quot; when you know idea is to hype you up and program you to think of your company or product as superior?

 

[Moonbeam]

IronMike, If you like worms you can borrow my can opener. Don't cry to me, though, if you ruin the economy of the world, or get somebody really pissed off.

 

[BlkDragon6]

That's why they keep making all these smear ads and whatnot. If every individual knew the basics of psychology and critical thinking, then they would throw out most of these bashing and smearing debates. But lucky for them, most people don't know that they're commiting many fundamental debate errors.