Is it legal to share a DSL connection with roomate using own router?

[MowSow]

My roomate is not convienced that it is OK to share his DSL modem without the company knowing, he said they told him, either you buy a router form us for $350, or you must pay $20 extra a month and we give you 5 static IPs !!
help me, make him understand, maybe a link to learn about setting up a router will do !!
Thanks

 

[JackMDS]

There is a possibility that your roommate is right, the rules vary from one ISP to the other.

Log to your ISP main page, and see what their policy is.

 

[Soybomb]

Use a router and you'll be fine. Search like google for NAT or network address translation to read more about how routers work

 

[dakata24]

get a router that does MAC address cloning (i think the most, if not all have this feature).. have them install the dsl on whichever computer.. clone the nic card MAC address into the router. and they wont have a clue you're sharing.

 

[vi edit]

99% of the time the ISP just doesn't want to support connectivity problems with people with routers because they add one extra step to the troubleshooting process.

So instead of simply saying "routers are not supported" techs/sales people say "routers are prohibited".

Big difference.

 

[GigaCluster]

I don't understand why everyone recommends that a router must clone the MAC address of the computer which originally carried DSL... do I, as a customer, not have the right to change my NIC anytime I want to without interruption of service? The ISP has no way of knowing whether I changed the NIC, bought a new computer, or installed a router... nor should they care. I use a router without worrying about such trivial things such as cloning the MAC address, and I don't have any problems with my ISP.

 

[bigboi]

most likely it's against their polcies, but if there's any rule that needs to be broken and can in fact be broken without consequence it is this one. you can't possibly be stealing anything anyway- they're capping your up and down speeds so adding the extra machines to the network doesn't mean you're getting any more bandwidth.

peace,
big boi

 

[JustinLerner]

It is probably not illegal to buy, setup and use his own router with a single IP from his ISP.

They will charge for additional IP addresses, which you probably don't need. As for the router, that is a higher price, probably for a more complex home router installed.

Unless they explicitly prohibit sharing one IP address with other local PC's (even using ICS) via an end user contract, then it's not illegal.

As stated, you will need a NAT router with MAC address cloning capability. You will need to clone the MAC address of the NIC originally connected at setup of the DSL account with the ISP.

 

[GigaCluster]

Originally posted by: JustinLerner
Unless they explicitly prohibit sharing one IP address with other local PC's (even using ICS) via an end user contract, then it's not illegal.

As far as I know, there is no way for them to determine whether you are sharing the connection or not... am I wrong? If I am correct, then this rule is absurd since it cannot be enforced.

As stated, you will need a NAT router with MAC address cloning capability. You will need to clone the MAC address of the NIC originally connected at setup of the DSL account with the ISP.

Have you read my message earlier in this thread?

 

[ttn1]

There are ways for them to tell if you are using a router. The question is will they take the time. It would also be very hard to enforce, because you could just be using the router as a firewall for one machine.

The bottom line is that if it is against their TOS and they check, you will most likely get a warning the first time. Then just disconnect it and pay the extra cost.

I would be willing to bet that you will never herre from your provider while using the router. Just remember they are not going to answer your questions about why you network isn't working.

 

[vi edit]

An ISP can can detect NAT, it's just a matter of how hard they want to try to.

 

[GigaCluster]

How can they possibly detect it?

 

[vash]

Originally posted by: GigaCluster
How can they possibly detect it?

NAT is pretty easy to detect. For example, if you look at the MAC addresses activity, you'll see a lot of people using non standard ports going out to standard ports. Its very easy to see on a game server, like in HLDS. If I do a "stat", I see the IPs and ports people are connected from. If I see some really non standard ports, NAT user. I'm sure it could be easier to detect with other tools, but there is no fooling when someone has NAT.

vash

 

[cipher00]

<<How can they possibly detect it?>>

Something about packets being altered when passing through your basic router -- so the router knows where to send a response. In short: yeah, an ISP can tell, and occasionally someone starts a rumor that {fill in the name of your favorite ISP here} is going to shut down all IPs that use a router, but I've never heard of one instance where that actually happened. (I even called my ISP once when the service went down and the tech actually asked if I had a router b/c some other customer called with a problem, and the tech actually helped the other customer get connected. :Q )

Anyway, like above, check the TOS.

As for cloning, some IPSes check the NIC to allow service, though I believe this is usually done at the modem level.

Good luck.

 

[rw120555]

My ISP, Ameritech, actually sells a router, the 2wire Home Portal. Several other ISPs do too, and I bet more will in the future (people are going to use routers so the ISP might as well try to make some money off of it.) If you're really paranoid about it, you might check to see if your ISP sells a router, and if so I doubt they'll try to go catching you if you do use one, even if it is not theirs.

 

[GigaCluster]

Originally posted by: vash

Originally posted by: GigaCluster
How can they possibly detect it?

NAT is pretty easy to detect. For example, if you look at the MAC addresses activity, you'll see a lot of people using non standard ports going out to standard ports. Its very easy to see on a game server, like in HLDS. If I do a "stat", I see the IPs and ports people are connected from. If I see some really non standard ports, NAT user. I'm sure it could be easier to detect with other tools, but there is no fooling when someone has NAT.

vash

The source port is always random, though. For example, if I connect to anandtech.com port 80, my source port might be something like 8425... the ISP still doesn't know whether a workstation picked that port or the router did.

Something about packets being altered when passing through your basic router -- so the router knows where to send a response.

The router modifies the source IP and port. If I am behind the router and my private IP address is 10.0.0.1 and I send a request to anandtech.com port 80, the router receives this outgoing packet, changes the source IP from 10.0.0.1 to its WAN address which might be 209.115.111.215 and spits it out of its WAN port. When it receives a reply, it changes the destination IP from 209.x.x.x back to 10.0.0.1 and sends it to the LAN.

I still fail to see how the ISP can determine whether it's two machines online or one active machine. The router certainly does not broadcast the fact that it's a router unless configured to do so... it behaves like a simple TCP/IP node.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

Is it legal to share a phone with roommate?
you do pay the monthly charge on time, who care how do you use it?

I'm using Pacbell (SBC) DSL, Charter Cable (by Earthlink), with router, both don't need to clone the MAC address.
You get 1 IP if you choose the basic plan, the router gets 1 IP - that exact IP (either dynamic or static, doesn't matter), they have no right to forbid you using router. The only drawback is you can't get tech support from them on your "router" unless you buy from them at a rip-off price. If you know how to use a router, I don't think you need tech support from them. Their tech support is a joke, they don't know anything about computer, they only can tell you to try restart the computer, reset the modem, etc, and file a technician visit order if they can't solve it by phone. Once a technician came to my place and saw my "router", he blamed it's my "switch" causing the problem.
Once I moved home, the old home was using Pacbell DSL by a separate line. The new home's old owner is using self-install dsl so using the same phone line. Pacbell wanted to charge me $150 if I want them to install the DSL into separate line or sell me a self-install DSL kit for $200. You can buy such self-install DSL kit for $30 shipped from internet. I just borrowed some extra filters from friends who're using self-install DSL.

 

[boyRacer]

but does it hurt to clone the MAC? Even if your ISP doesn't care... should i do it anyway... might as well i guess... only takes a minute right?

 

[Goosemaster]

Basically a router/NAT can be detected by the TTL, or the number of hops the packet makes to a destination...people ususally notice the "extra" hop*..if you know what I mean

* as others have explicated. the hop between the client and the router where LAN ips get changed into their corresspondign WAN counter parts...blah..blah...blah

 

[Goosemaster]

THere is nothing wrong with cloning hte MAC address..ther are ISPs and private networks that make you reset the cable modem if hte mac address changes...although it doesn't really mean jack squat with cables, let me give it a whirl in the wireless...



At my university(a big/high-tech one) our campus-wide intercity(phili)-LAN is available only to those with vaild MAC addresses, and for security purposes, with good reason.

Let's say you wanted to share your 11Mbps wireless connection...GOd knows why you wouldn't want a 100Mbps interface to our OC12 but I'm being hypothetical here

.....


If you tried to do so with a switch using a cleared laptop and other pcs that were not, obviously you would not be able to use the uncleared pcs...

Now, using MAC-address cloning and NAT(network Address Translation), you can get around this because every packet "seems" to come from the cleared laptop



Basically imagine this with your ISP...same thing

[/insomniatic rant]