Is it legal to download a game if...

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: andrey
I don't think downloading warez CD is legal, no matter how you justify it.

If it would be legal, why than manufacturer of the game wouldn't offer free download link to those who have their CDs damaged? To give you a good example, imagine you're driving your car and accidently wreck it. Can you go ahead and steal the same identical car from the dealer's parking lot simply because you paid for the car once already? Seriously, think about that...

Sorry, but bad analogy.

#1: free download. Of course they don't offer it. When was the last time the honor system worked? People steal. Welcome to the world.
#2: car wreck: There is a huge difference. You bought the metal of the car itself. it is a tangable product. Software is TOTALY different. You do not pay for the disk. You pay for the rights to use the software, and install it on one machine. You are also allowed to make 1 backup for archival purposes. ( on everything I know of anyway )Software is much different than everything else for sale.

Think of it this way... say you bought jedi knight ( to use the above example ) and used it for a while then tossed the CD in a closet. 5 months later, your best friend gets it, and wants to play the game with you. You get your CD and can not read it. Are you allowed to copy his?

Frankly, I have no clue what the legal answer is in most instances, but I know what MKicrosoft's answer is. If you own a licence, it does not mater where the actual CD came from that was installed. You just have to have a COA for each instalation. I know this from experence.

<edit>
Well, of Chaotic42, Viper GTS, and Evadman... Viper GTS is the fastest Typest

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I think that they had thought that the person selling you the damaged CD would try to keep using the game as well. As long as the seller is not continuing to use the game, then you're buying the license and it would be technically legal.

ZV

{{nods}}

Clearly it's a sticky question. On the one hand we want to be able to own exclusively the right to use our purchase in whatever manner we would like on the other the company gets raped if everyone only bought "copies" or in this case... "cracked"... disks...

For the record you're right a person has the right to buy a license and use the software... no matter the original cost... but most of those deals are pretty shady... ((works for a corporation... like many... who are using illegal software))

 

[rubix]

it is illegal. so is downloading a rom if you own the game or downloading a mp3 if you own the cd. this is because the thing you are downloading is not from your copy (ie: not a backup of yours) and also because the person you dled it from is not authorized to distribute it to you. but why even bother caring. people are so hung up on justifying their actions. admit you are pirate and law breaker and move on if that is what you are.

 

[andrey]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Ever noticed how when a PC comes with an OEM Windows CD it's always sealed in the original packaging (with the COA enclosed)? Surely that install must be illegal, since they didn't use YOUR CD to install it. Most likely it was installed from a ghosted image or from a burned OS install CD that the shop uses.

With software the license is all that matters.

Viper GTS,

not every software is made by Microsoft and licenses are different from one company to another. Still, no mattery what excuse people find or trying to find, downloading cd-image from sites other than sites authorized by manufacturer is illegal.

--Andrey

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: andrey
I don't think downloading warez CD is legal, no matter how you justify it.

If it would be legal, why than manufacturer of the game wouldn't offer free download link to those who have their CDs damaged? To give you a good example, imagine you're driving your car and accidently wreck it. Can you go ahead and steal the same identical car from the dealer's parking lot simply because you paid for the car once already? Seriously, think about that...

You buy a car, you are paying for the car. You buy a game, you are paying fo the SOFTWARE, not the CD.

 

[rubix]

no you are paying for the cd and the box and the manual also. are you saying if a game was sold on a 200gb harddrive that it would cost the same as a game sold on a cd?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: rubix
no you are paying for the cd and the box and the manual also. are you saying if a game was sold on a 200gb harddrive that it would cost the same as a game sold on a cd?

What? That's just nonsense.

Here's what you get with a typical game:

Game CD with program
License to use program
Box
Manual
Ads

So, I pay $50 for that stuff. If my Fluffy Kittens 14 CD gets messed up, I still have a license to use the Fluffy Kittens 14 program. Tell me, how much does a CD cost? How much does a 200 GB hard disk drive cost?

 

[dawks]

When you buy a game, you buy the CD KEY. A license to use the software. After that it doesnt really matter where you get the actual software from. Although some EULA's might say otherwise.

They dont provide a free download becuase bandwidth is incredibly expensive as it is. Not to mention when were talking about 1.5gigs of data now adays.. also, consider people would re-download the game when they re-install.. and not alot of kids have credit cards to purchase the license for the game via the internet.. They have to take their hard earned $20 bills to the local store to buy it.




The car example was horrible and lame. Soooo not related.

 

[rubix]

"Tell me, how much does a CD cost? How much does a 200 GB hard disk drive cost?"

well let's see. a 200gb hd costs a few hundred maybe, and a cd costs 10 cents maybe. so explain to me how you aren't paying for the cd now? did you have some type of point? i don't, other than saying that dude above is wrong in stating you aren't paying for a cd.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: rubix
"Tell me, how much does a CD cost? How much does a 200 GB hard disk drive cost?"

well let's see. a 200gb hd costs a few hundred maybe, and a cd costs 10 cents maybe. so explain to me how you aren't paying for the cd now? did you have some type of point? i don't, other than saying that dude above is wrong in stating you aren't paying for a cd.

OK, here's what you said:

no you are paying for the cd and the box and the manual also. are you saying if a game was sold on a 200gb harddrive that it would cost the same as a game sold on a cd?

My point is that no one is stupid enough to think that a game on a $.10 CD and a game on a $300 disk drive would cost the same amount.

Of course you are paying for the CD, which they don't make a profit off of. It's just the method of distrobution. They make the profit off of selling you the right to use their program. The cost of the CD is trivial. The cost of a 200GB hard drive is not.

 

[TNTrulez]

It's perfectly legal if they can't prove that the copy you made wasn't your self-made backup copy of the original disk.

 

[andrey]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: andrey
I don't think downloading warez CD is legal, no matter how you justify it.

If it would be legal, why than manufacturer of the game wouldn't offer free download link to those who have their CDs damaged? To give you a good example, imagine you're driving your car and accidently wreck it. Can you go ahead and steal the same identical car from the dealer's parking lot simply because you paid for the car once already? Seriously, think about that...

You buy a car, you are paying for the car. You buy a game, you are paying fo the SOFTWARE, not the CD.

Jellomancer,
You're buying CD + Manual + License (or cd-key). Believe me, those things in the box for a reason. Do not confuse Microsoft's EULA with other licenses.
Just for the heck of it, I opened my UnrealTournament 2003 EULA software agreement and here is what it says:

================================================================================
[Section 4]:

Use Restrictions.
We want you to enjoy our products for years to come, and we want to be able to continue to make awesome games, so you need to be aware that there are some things you cannot do with the Software. The Software contains copyrighted material, trade secrets and other proprietary material. You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, publicly display, prepare derivative works based on the Software (except as permitted in Section 10, below), disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software. Except as set forth herein, you may not rent, sell, lease, barter, sublicense or distribute the Software. You may not delete the copyright notices or any other proprietary legends on the original copy of the Software. You may not offer the Software on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise commercially exploit the Software or use the Software for any commercial purpose except as described in this agreement. You may not electronically transmit the Software from one computer to another or over a network. You may not ship or export the Software to any country other than where you bought it, in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act (or any other law governing such matters) and you will not utilize and will not authorize anyone to utilize the Software in violation of any applicable law. The Software may not be downloaded or otherwise exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited by applicable law from receiving it.
================================================================================

So, let me repeat that, " You may not electronically transmit the Software from one computer to another or over a network." and "The Software may not be downloaded ... to anyone".

Now, if anyone can explain to me how downloading cd-image from another site on the internet doesn't violate this part of EULA, I really would love to hear that.

--Andrey

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

so to sum up, it may or may not be depending on the game's EULA.

 

[MrPhelps]

Its only because you are getting or buying the damage cd with the sole intent of using it to justify the downloading of a functioning version of it.


I still would do it. But if I was truely dotting the t's and crossiing the I's , than no way.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: rubix
admit you are pirate and law breaker and move on if that is what you are.

As I said already, once I knew that this was a 'cracked' CD, I wasn't going through with it. If you're attempting to insult me, just do it directly.

Mods: lock/delete, if you don't mind

 

[iam4u2nv]

I do not think it is unethical but you do or you would not ask. So if you have some question but would these people here tell you? It is dumb to even ask. If I wanted to steal a car and I came here and 100 people said it would be ok to steal the car, it is still not right.
Morals questions are best figured out, not asked in a forum.

by the way.. WTF is JO

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: iam4u2nv
I do not think it is unethical but you do or you would not ask. So if you have some question but would these people here tell you? It is dumb to even ask. If I wanted to steal a car and I came here and 100 people said it would be ok to steal the car, it is still not right.
Morals questions are best figured out, not asked in a forum.

by the way.. WTF is JO

Stealing a car is, as stated above, an invalid analogy. In my opinion, I have received various viewpoints on this issue, and I have come to a conclusion. If you don't like these questions, don't read them.

JO is Jedi Outcast.

 

[iam4u2nv]

No no no.. I love these questions. However, I ask myself... "Why Ask Them"
I love to go off and give my opinions on things but as stated many times to my ramblings.. Who cares?
Why do you care what I think? Answer should be, you do not.
See what I mean.
People will keep asking and I will keep answering. That is the beauty it.


By the way.. stealing the car was only to keep it simple. A better one would be.. I think my wife is cheating and I am thinking of installing that Spy software. To me this is wrong and unethical. I would not do it.. but many people do.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: iam4u2nv


By the way.. stealing the car was only to keep it simple. A better one would be.. I think my wife is cheating and I am thinking of installing that Spy software. To me this is wrong and unethical. I would not do it.. but many people do.

I still think it's invalid - downloading software in no way reduces anyone's profit, like stealing a car would. It doesn't take something away from someone either..more like copying a car, leaving the original untouched...

The spy software would invade someone's privacy, which is something downloading software doesn't do.

I catch what you're trying to say, though.

 

[MrPhelps]

CadetLee


Don't let everyone get to you 99.99999999% of people would do it and the rest lie about doing it.


Rock on, It was a interesting post and it brought alot of different opinions.

THANKS!!!!!

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: andrey

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: andrey
I don't think downloading warez CD is legal, no matter how you justify it.

If it would be legal, why than manufacturer of the game wouldn't offer free download link to those who have their CDs damaged? To give you a good example, imagine you're driving your car and accidently wreck it. Can you go ahead and steal the same identical car from the dealer's parking lot simply because you paid for the car once already? Seriously, think about that...

You buy a car, you are paying for the car. You buy a game, you are paying fo the SOFTWARE, not the CD.

Jellomancer,
You're buying CD + Manual + License (or cd-key). Believe me, those things in the box for a reason. Do not confuse Microsoft's EULA with other licenses.
Just for the heck of it, I opened my UnrealTournament 2003 EULA software agreement and here is what it says:

================================================================================
[Section 4]:

Use Restrictions.
We want you to enjoy our products for years to come, and we want to be able to continue to make awesome games, so you need to be aware that there are some things you cannot do with the Software. The Software contains copyrighted material, trade secrets and other proprietary material. You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, publicly display, prepare derivative works based on the Software (except as permitted in Section 10, below), disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software. Except as set forth herein, you may not rent, sell, lease, barter, sublicense or distribute the Software. You may not delete the copyright notices or any other proprietary legends on the original copy of the Software. You may not offer the Software on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise commercially exploit the Software or use the Software for any commercial purpose except as described in this agreement. You may not electronically transmit the Software from one computer to another or over a network. You may not ship or export the Software to any country other than where you bought it, in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act (or any other law governing such matters) and you will not utilize and will not authorize anyone to utilize the Software in violation of any applicable law. The Software may not be downloaded or otherwise exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited by applicable law from receiving it.
================================================================================

So, let me repeat that, " You may not electronically transmit the Software from one computer to another or over a network." and "The Software may not be downloaded ... to anyone".

Now, if anyone can explain to me how downloading cd-image from another site on the internet doesn't violate this part of EULA, I really would love to hear that.

--Andrey

Ummm....
The Software may not be downloaded or otherwise exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited by applicable law from receiving it.

What applicable law prohibits the owner of the license from downloading it?
In any case, downloading a program because YOUR CD IS SCRATCHED is okay, by any interpreation of licensing or ownership. Illegal or not, the publisher isn't going to carry you away with black helicopters. If they try, show them your scratched up CD and tell them you downloaded it because the CD doesn't work. There is NOTHING unethical about downloading a program because your CD doesn't work.